Jacksonville,FL Queen palms

[MarcusH]

Jacksonville became a place of interest and I was wondering how reliable Queen palms in that area are.  Looked up at some data for the last 40 years it seems to be there was no chance of survival in the 1980s. Another cold event was in 2003 where it got down to 20F . So far the last 20 years didn't seem to be no problem for growing Queens in Jacksonville.  Anyone from that area that can give me some feedback about survival rates and ages of Queens in Jax ? Thank you. 

[SeanK]

The 1980s were tough.  Even 20°F wouldn't kill a healthy, adult queen. The plant may need one or two summers to recover its crown, but it should be OK.

[MarcusH]

3 hours ago, SeanK said:

The 1980s were tough.  Even 20°F wouldn't kill a healthy, adult queen. The plant may need one or two summers to recover its crown, but it should be OK.

Do you know how old those mature Queen palms are ? 

[The7thLegend]

9 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Jacksonville became a place of interest and I was wondering how reliable Queen palms in that area are.  Looked up at some data for the last 40 years it seems to be there was no chance of survival in the 1980s. Another cold event was in 2003 where it got down to 20F . So far the last 20 years didn't seem to be no problem for growing Queens in Jacksonville.  Anyone from that area that can give me some feedback about survival rates and ages of Queens in Jax ? Thank you. 

@MarcusH Queens are EVERYWHERE in Jax.  The other most commen palm is the Date Palm (city plantings).  2010 was the last major freeze,

[jreich85]

Jacksonville generally gets warmer as you go from west to east and has a lot of variability in temperatures. It seems that at least on the east side of town where I’m at, there are plenty of queens that made it through 2010. For the most part, any halfway healthy ones didn’t seem to blink at the Christmas 2022 freeze.

[NC_Palms]

I'm convinced queens are hardier than they are given credit for. Theres 20 - 30 yo queen palms in the Savannah/HHI area that have definitely seen below 20F, and I have been able to keep young queens alive unprotected in zona 8 NC through an average winter. 

[MarcusH]

20 minutes ago, NC_Palms said:

I'm convinced queens are hardier than they are given credit for. Theres 20 - 30 yo queen palms in the Savannah/HHI area that have definitely seen below 20F, and I have been able to keep young queens alive unprotected in zona 8 NC through an average winter. 

I've heard stories from a forum member that the Queens that used to exist in the San Antonio area went through some winters in the mid upper teens with some casualties but a good number of Queens apparently lived until 2021. 

 

[MarcusH]

On 1/14/2024 at 9:15 PM, jreich85 said:

Jacksonville generally gets warmer as you go from west to east and has a lot of variability in temperatures. It seems that at least on the east side of town where I’m at, there are plenty of queens that made it through 2010. For the most part, any halfway healthy ones didn’t seem to blink at the Christmas 2022 freeze.

How cold did it get in 2010 and 2022 ? Would you consider it as bulletproof in Jax nowadays? 

[MarcusH]

On 1/14/2024 at 8:09 PM, The7thLegend said:

@MarcusH Queens are EVERYWHERE in Jax.  The other most commen palm is the Date Palm (city plantings).  2010 was the last major freeze,

Those date palms look good. I'm sure you can grow quite a lot of nice palms in that area. 

[edbrown_III]

A few survived the freezes of the 80's--- long gone tho fer other reasons ---I got one I planted in 1988--- it was at ground level in 1989 but survived ---I threw a piece of plastic over it --- and I guess the  snow that fell insulated it .     we had 4 bad nights 16°F on one of em. 

It a big tree now 

[byuind]

They are weeds around Jacksonville. Damn near invasive!

i use a few of them on my north eastern facing garden as a staple for the more tropical ones in the landscape. They love food and drink and are pretty much bulletproof for the 9a climate from what I see around me.

Some dont seem to thrive very well with a lack of fertilizer as they start to turn yellow and show stunted vertical growth.

[Matthew92]

It's funny the few times I've been to Jacksonville (one I remember in particular in 2010), the landscape struck me as very typical of North FL (looking about the same as Southern AL or GA). Didn't notice anything more tropical than I see here in the Western Panhandle. Maybe it was because I was in older sections/neighborhoods where "tried and true" cold hardy vegetation was the dominant feature. And since there's been many warm winters since 2010, I bet there's that much more tropical stuff there now vs. that time I was there.

Edited January 17, 2024 by Matthew92

[Xenon]

Visited Jacksonville a few years ago near Mandarin/riverfront area and the beaches down to St Augustine. Looks very much like New Orleans (or Houston before 2021 lol), queens pretty easy to spot. Noticed some nice sized Cook pines around Mandarin. My first impression of Jacksonville was heading south on I-95 from Savannah and it looked waaaaay more tropical than Georgia or the Carolinas. Like an order of magnitude warmer. 

[NickJames]

My childhood home in Jacksonville has queen palms. Planted on the late 1990s. They are from Home Depot in Daytona Beach. Back then, you couldn’t get queen palms at big box retailers in Jacksonville (my,  how things have changed!)

The queens have seen 19 degrees with no visible damage. By visible, I mean I didn’t get up on a ladder back in 2010 and inspect the leaflet tips or anything for damage but from down on the ground they were fine. 

photo from 2020. 

[jreich85]

On 1/15/2024 at 10:16 PM, MarcusH said:

How cold did it get in 2010 and 2022 ? Would you consider it as bulletproof in Jax nowadays? 

The 2010 freeze happened right before I moved to Jacksonville so I’m not sure outside of whatever NOAA records are out there. Christmas 2022 was pretty chilly though. My yard had four nights below freezing with lows of 25, 25, 27, and 29. The second night it was below freezing for over 12 hours. It was a super windy, advective freeze at first and the queens did fine. I wouldn’t say 100% bulletproof, but pretty close to it east and south of the river.

[Lou-StAugFL]

Jacksonville has multiple microclimates.  In some parts of Jacksonville there haven't been any problems with growing queen palms since the 80s.  One day last week it was in the 30s in western Jacksonville and 50 at Jacksonville Beach.  It really all depends in which part of the city you are.  Many people are growing sensitive palms in Jacksonville.  Along the river in Mandarin and near the Intracoastal and Beaches area it is much warmer than near the airport.  Which part of town are you curious about?

[MikeB]

Check out the thread about the huge Roystoneas growing along the St. Johns River in Jacksonville.  The owner told me he planted them over two decades ago.  He has Wodyetia, Ravenea rivularis,  large Pandanas and other tropicals.  What a microclimate! Maybe somebody can post the link.  

[kinzyjr]

4 hours ago, MikeB said:

Check out the thread about the huge Roystoneas growing along the St. Johns River in Jacksonville.  The owner told me he planted them over two decades ago.  He has Wodyetia, Ravenea rivularis,  large Pandanas and other tropicals.  What a microclimate! Maybe somebody can post the link.  

There are a lot of them here are a few:

@RoystoneaJax had a few posts about them:

• https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/61438-range-of-royal-palms/
• Photos after the December 2022 cold event: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/79007-jax-fl-royal-palm-update/

The last post on this thread by @Kekoanui has a link to a street view as well: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/31380-northernmost-royal-palm-in-inland-florida/?do=findComment&comment=827014

@Steve the palmreader's post here has them as well: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/49686-florida-royal-palm-and-cuban-royal-palm-how-cold-hardy/?do=findComment&comment=949459

@howfam added them to these threads:

• https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/46724-exposed-inland-royals-in-florida-north-most/?do=findComment&comment=719504
• https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/34769-roystonea-regia-in-flagler-beach-north-florida/?do=findComment&comment=555086

[Steve the palmreader]

Are those Foxtails to the right of the queens in the background ?

[Scott W]

On 1/15/2024 at 10:16 PM, MarcusH said:

How cold did it get in 2010 and 2022 ? Would you consider it as bulletproof in Jax nowadays? 

I recorded 18F at my house on the Northside a few miles east of the airport in 2010 and if I recall we had nearly three days at or below freezing.  Christmas weekend 2022 I recorded 25F for two nights but both days went above freezing at my current house in Arlington.

The queens at my current house were unfazed by the 25F.  Even had 2 of 4 potted foxtail survive this event.

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, Scott W said:

I recorded 18F at my house on the Northside a few miles east of the airport in 2010 and if I recall we had nearly three days at or below freezing.  Christmas weekend 2022 I recorded 25F for two nights but both days went above freezing at my current house in Arlington.

The queens at my current house were unfazed by the 25F.  Even had 2 of 4 potted foxtail survive this event.

I hear a lot of people saying that Queens can handle colder temperatures than 20F for a short period of times. One day I'm going to visit Jacksonville and explore . It's a beautiful city and the palms look great from what I have seen on YouTube so far.  I saw a good amount of mature Queens.  It appears to be that your winter lows get warmer.  

[NickJames]

5 hours ago, Steve the palmreader said:

Are those Foxtails to the right of the queens in the background ?

Yes, they’re deceased. 😅

my mom tried experimenting and rolled the dice and lost. They’ve now been replaced with a mule palm. 

[kinzyjr]

On 1/16/2024 at 9:54 PM, Matthew92 said:

It's funny the few times I've been to Jacksonville (one I remember in particular in 2010), the landscape struck me as very typical of North FL (looking about the same as Southern AL or GA). Didn't notice anything more tropical than I see here in the Western Panhandle. Maybe it was because I was in older sections/neighborhoods where "tried and true" cold hardy vegetation was the dominant feature. And since there's been many warm winters since 2010, I bet there's that much more tropical stuff there now vs. that time I was there.

On 1/16/2024 at 10:34 PM, Xenon said:

Visited Jacksonville a few years ago near Mandarin/riverfront area and the beaches down to St Augustine. Looks very much like New Orleans (or Houston before 2021 lol), queens pretty easy to spot. Noticed some nice sized Cook pines around Mandarin. My first impression of Jacksonville was heading south on I-95 from Savannah and it looked waaaaay more tropical than Georgia or the Carolinas. Like an order of magnitude warmer. 

On 1/17/2024 at 4:05 PM, Lou-StAugFL said:

Jacksonville has multiple microclimates.  In some parts of Jacksonville there haven't been any problems with growing queen palms since the 80s.  One day last week it was in the 30s in western Jacksonville and 50 at Jacksonville Beach.  It really all depends in which part of the city you are.  Many people are growing sensitive palms in Jacksonville.  Along the river in Mandarin and near the Intracoastal and Beaches area it is much warmer than near the airport.  Which part of town are you curious about?

It does depend on the section of Jacksonville that one visits.  If the area is west of the St. Johns River is much cooler overnight in the winter than the areas east of the river, influenced by urbanization, and/or modified by the Atlantic Ocean.  Here are a few sample lows

Average Annual Low over 50 years:

• Jax Intl. (KJAX): 22.5F (North of Downtown and St. Johns River)
• Cecil Field (KVQQ): 22.9F (West of I-295 and the St. Johns, out of town)
• Jax NAS (KNIP): 26.4F (West of the St. Johns, but east of I-295 and south of a bend in the St. Johns)
• Jax Craig (KCRG): 27.12F (East of the St. Johns and some influence from UHI)
• Mayport (KNRB): 26.8F (Bordered by water on three sides, far eastern end of Jacksonville)

The 2022 version of my Google Zone Map is still available here with these data points and some others that provide clarity on the cut-offs: https://tinyurl.com/48pvem3y

One trend I've noticed is that CFPACS now has a large number of members living in Jacksonville, Ponte Vedra, St. Augustine, Hastings, and other parts of  NE FL.  They are all adventurous and have fantastic gardens showing off their individual microclimates.

[Fishinsteeg234]

I grew up in south Jax area in the small town of Palm Valley, just south of Ponte Vedra beach. My parents still live there today and I get up there a few time a year to visit. The house is only .5miles from the ocean, and is located on Guana lake which helps create a decent microclimate. As a child in the early 90’s, I remember Sabal palmettos in yard that towered above the live oaks. They must have been very old, possibly (100years?) to get 60+ feet of trunk. Unfortunately some of these had to be removed for one reason or another, but it was these dense Sabal thickets that probably gave the area its name, Palm Valley. 
 

Back in the 90’s I don’t recall seeing many Queen palms, maybe they just weren’t that available in the big box stores then.  My parents purchased two Queens in the late 90’s and planted them next to the back deck. They were probably a 5 gallon size when planted. Since then, they have thrived and are also now trying to reach above the oak canopy. These are some of the biggest I see around the area, probably because of the oak canopy allowing to reach so high. 
 

Here’s a recent pic. The one on the right is pushing close +40’ of trunk if I were to guess.
 

One a side note, I’ve recently planted a Roystonea on the lake edge, a Veitchia and Kentiopsis also in the yard. We’ll see how these fare in these upcoming years. 

 

[Harry’s Palms]

I have seen Queen Palms endure some cold winters . Here, where I am, it is a weed and at my old house we would get frost. I had them through some really cold winters( relatively speaking) , low 30's . They didn't even set back at all. They even continued to grow very fast! A good canopy palm for understory palms. They protected some of my other  , more delicate palms , for years while the smaller palms gained strength and could handle the sun.

[JLM]

55 minutes ago, Fishinsteeg234 said:

I grew up in south Jax area in the small town of Palm Valley, just south of Ponte Vedra beach. My parents still live there today and I get up there a few time a year to visit. The house is only .5miles from the ocean, and is located on Guana lake which helps create a decent microclimate. As a child in the early 90’s, I remember Sabal palmettos in yard that towered above the live oaks. They must have been very old, possibly (100years?) to get 60+ feet of trunk. Unfortunately some of these had to be removed for one reason or another, but it was these dense Sabal thickets that probably gave the area its name, Palm Valley. 
 

Back in the 90’s I don’t recall seeing many Queen palms, maybe they just weren’t that available in the big box stores then.  My parents purchased two Queens in the late 90’s and planted them next to the back deck. They were probably a 5 gallon size when planted. Since then, they have thrived and are also now trying to reach above the oak canopy. These are some of the biggest I see around the area, probably because of the oak canopy allowing to reach so high. 
 

Here’s a recent pic. The one on the right is pushing close +40’ of trunk if I were to guess.
 

One a side note, I’ve recently planted a Roystonea on the lake edge, a Veitchia and Kentiopsis also in the yard. We’ll see how these fare in these upcoming years. 

 

The crowns are practically the size of the house itself. NICE!

[D Palm]

I live 30 miles west of downtown, in the country side. If you plant a queen near the house or around other mature foliage it will grow fine. If you plant out in the open air Frost with 20F will damage heavily but they still survive. East of downtown is fine, Bismarck’s and even occasional Roystonea grow as others have mentioned. The native vegetation is similar for pan handle, GA, AL which is why it may look similar. But definitely warmer to sustain more non native variety.

[Robbertico18]

7 hours ago, Fishinsteeg234 said:

I grew up in south Jax area in the small town of Palm Valley, just south of Ponte Vedra beach. My parents still live there today and I get up there a few time a year to visit. The house is only .5miles from the ocean, and is located on Guana lake which helps create a decent microclimate. As a child in the early 90’s, I remember Sabal palmettos in yard that towered above the live oaks. They must have been very old, possibly (100years?) to get 60+ feet of trunk. Unfortunately some of these had to be removed for one reason or another, but it was these dense Sabal thickets that probably gave the area its name, Palm Valley. 
 

Back in the 90’s I don’t recall seeing many Queen palms, maybe they just weren’t that available in the big box stores then.  My parents purchased two Queens in the late 90’s and planted them next to the back deck. They were probably a 5 gallon size when planted. Since then, they have thrived and are also now trying to reach above the oak canopy. These are some of the biggest I see around the area, probably because of the oak canopy allowing to reach so high. 
 

Here’s a recent pic. The one on the right is pushing close +40’ of trunk if I were to guess.
 

One a side note, I’ve recently planted a Roystonea on the lake edge, a Veitchia and Kentiopsis also in the yard. We’ll see how these fare in these upcoming years. 

 

Those are amazing Queen palms!

[howfam]

One of my favorite palms, tropical looking, yet hardy. Here in Jacksonville, Queen palms have really made a comeback since being devastated in the 80's by several winter events. These two queens were planted, one early 90's, the other late 90's and still going strong , one nearing 30 ft overall, the other more than 40 ft tall. Pictures taken May 2023, both located in Jacksonville's Arlington area, south and east of the St. Johns River.

Edited January 20, 2024 by howfam

[MarcusH]

On 1/17/2024 at 3:05 PM, Lou-StAugFL said:

Jacksonville has multiple microclimates.  In some parts of Jacksonville there haven't been any problems with growing queen palms since the 80s.  One day last week it was in the 30s in western Jacksonville and 50 at Jacksonville Beach.  It really all depends in which part of the city you are.  Many people are growing sensitive palms in Jacksonville.  Along the river in Mandarin and near the Intracoastal and Beaches area it is much warmer than near the airport.  Which part of town are you curious about?

Sorry for the late reply but I would be interested in the Sandalwood,  Arlington area or places close by . Are these areas significantly warmer in the winter times than let's say right by the airport? 

[MarcusH]

You guys in Jacksonville have some really beautiful looking Queens and it seems to be that they do good over there .  

[Scott W]

3 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Sorry for the late reply but I would be interested in the Sandalwood,  Arlington area or places close by . Are these areas significantly warmer in the winter times than let's say right by the airport? 

I'm smack in the middle of Arlington right at the north end of Pottsburg Creek.  It's definitely warmer here than the airport, but even so, being on the creek so far has not provided me any kind of microclimate....which I had hoped it would.   Could be with the plants were that perished during the last 25f event, it was just too far away from the creek. 

This is my 8 year old silver queen, grown from seed purchased from RPS.  I have four others from the same seed batch in the ground but none as large as this one.

[MarcusH]

2 hours ago, Scott W said:

I'm smack in the middle of Arlington right at the north end of Pottsburg Creek.  It's definitely warmer here than the airport, but even so, being on the creek so far has not provided me any kind of microclimate....which I had hoped it would.   Could be with the plants were that perished during the last 25f event, it was just too far away from the creek. 

This is my 8 year old silver queen, grown from seed purchased from RPS.  I have four others from the same seed batch in the ground but none as large as this one.

Wow I had no idea Queens would grow that fast from seeds.  I knew they're fast growers but not like this.  I can't even grow Queens in my area here in San Antonio,TX it just gets too cold in the winter time.  From what I see is Queens are pretty reliable palms in your area maybe not 100 percent bulletproof but close to it. So far you're able to grow Queens since 1989.

 

[Brian M]

These were at our old house on Hodges which is a tiny bit east of sandalwood. I'm not sure when they were planted but they had been there since at least before 2010. 

[Gville Palms]

This queen I’ve had in the ground for about 3 years in Gainesville, Fl which is pretty similar to Jacksonville. It’s about an hour Southwest but because of being so inland and further west it tends to be a little colder most winters. It took temps in the high teens a few years ago quite easily with no cold protection. Fried some of the fronds but within 4 or 5 months it looked good as ever. 

[RFun]

On 1/15/2024 at 9:53 PM, NC_Palms said:

I'm convinced queens are hardier than they are given credit for. Theres 20 - 30 yo queen palms in the Savannah/HHI area that have definitely seen below 20F, and I have been able to keep young queens alive unprotected in zona 8 NC through an average winter. 

Yeah, the length of cold is pretty important.  Coastal Georgia isn't the worst place for them.  The hardiness is going to vary from one to the next (I'll guess short periods around 18-19F is about the limit).  The extreme events are what is going to be the threat.  I know Tybee Island has them and, of course, there is a courtyard area in Savannah that has them (as well as some other areas).  If there are any further North than that, I wouldn't know.

Edited March 5, 2024 by RFun

[Robbertico18]

52 minutes ago, RFun said:

Yeah, the length of cold is pretty important.  Coastal Georgia isn't the worst place for them.  The hardiness is going to vary from one to the next (I'll guess short periods around 18-19F is about the limit).  The extreme events are what is going to be the threat.  I know Tybee Island has them and, of course, there is a courtyard area in Savannah that has them (as well as some other areas).  If there are any further North than that, I wouldn't know.

I’m happy to report my queens planted July of 23 made it through our Savannah winter. 

[redbeard917]

5 hours ago, Scott W said:

I'm smack in the middle of Arlington right at the north end of Pottsburg Creek.  It's definitely warmer here than the airport, but even so, being on the creek so far has not provided me any kind of microclimate....which I had hoped it would.   Could be with the plants were that perished during the last 25f event, it was just too far away from the creek. 

This is my 8 year old silver queen, grown from seed purchased from RPS.  I have four others from the same seed batch in the ground but none as large as this one.

What's in the background? Almost looks like a Macrozamia.

[Scott W]

8 hours ago, redbeard917 said:

What's in the background? Almost looks like a Macrozamia.

Smaller palm next to the Tiki is Jubaea chilensis and the larger one beyond that is a Butia hybrid.

 

[Scott W]

12 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Wow I had no idea Queens would grow that fast from seeds.  I knew they're fast growers but not like this.

That one could be an anomaly, but I think its all about location for this one.  There's an old pine stump next to it that could be supplying the ground with some well needed nutrition aside from my normal cycle of fertilization, but that's just a theory.  The other three I have in the ground remained potted for several years and even now once in the ground they are barely 6 feet tall overall.  Which leads me back to nutrition, as I recall two queens I planted at my mom's from 3 gallon size grew super fast with much more frequent feedings of granular fertilizer.