Bradford pear replacement

[ZPalms]

It took me a minute to respond to this because I needed to be ready to read 😂

Where the frame is sitting, there was a greenhouse that I put up last year, I think, and the wind destroyed it within the first week of having it. My family does not like my indoor plants, so they thought just having a space heater in an Amazon greenhouse would be enough. I knew I couldn't trust it to keep my plants safe from the cold because it doesn't insulate well, and of course a storm or wind came through and the stakes weren't strong enough, and the wind took it and tossed it. So, I just moved the broken frame there, and it needs to be thrown away or something. Where the actual greenhouse will go will be that area next to that frame and will be sitting diagonal.

I'm so happy I had a fence surrounding my first palmetto at the time. As the greenhouse lifted, it dragged along the ground and knocked into the fence, and If it wasn't there, the greenhouse leg would have just decapitated it.

The area you highlighted in blue is the slope behind the post, It used to be landscaped at one point. I should probably pay attention to how the sunlight hits that area in winter and spring when the leaves start to grow. I think that area could look really good with the right plants and placements, crossing my fingers that I can manage that because I'm overwhelmed with the amount options for plants I have and if things work because I have limited resources 😂

I do want to add more cycads to my garden. I didn't consider other cycads because I wasn't sure what would 100% work and survive winter, but if Dioon edule works, I'd be happy to get some because I can already picture them while standing on the porch. 😂

I will do cannas and hibiscus anywhere and everywhere I can fit them and make them work, but probably not roses because, funny enough, I've always thought roses looked kinda ratty. My mom and grandma think the same thing too when the bushes have no flowers, and I'm not sure I want to pay too much attention to a rose bush unless I'm just not well-versed in roses, haha.

I do want the front yard of the house to be more formal and easy to maintain. The backyard will be more tropical looking plants and my zone pushes that need more attention, while the swampy and shady area near the garage will be a fun place I want to make lush and exotic. I also want to put lights down there to make the area look magical at night, making it look awesome to walk through and enjoy and less scary, as long as the deer flies aren't attacking. 😂

I read your links and It turns out I did collect the "spore flower" from the cinnamon fern, but I didn't actually believe that's where the spores came from, so I didn't properly store it and just placed it on my porch. At least now I know that when they come up this spring, I know what to look for and collect and hopefully have a cool little experiment.

I also figured out why my family hates magnolias. They dislike the fallen leaves and the aggressive roots that "seek" water, potentially damaging pipes. but these trees are not located close to the house. They also don't like the that magnolias have exposed roots above the ground? I'm just thinking, these are things some trees naturally do! They've always talk about concreting over the entire yard if they could 😭

I looked up the Red Buckeye and others, and I agree they probably couldn't be replacements for the Bradford pears. but they are gorgeous! I'll have to try and incorporate one somewhere eventually when I have things more defined!

Edited January 29, 2024 by ZPalms

[amh]

12 hours ago, ZPalms said:

It took me a minute to respond to this because I needed to be ready to read 😂

Where the frame is sitting, there was a greenhouse that I put up last year, I think, and the wind destroyed it within the first week of having it. My family does not like my indoor plants, so they thought just having a space heater in an Amazon greenhouse would be enough. I knew I couldn't trust it to keep my plants safe from the cold because it doesn't insulate well, and of course a storm or wind came through and the stakes weren't strong enough, and the wind took it and tossed it. So, I just moved the broken frame there, and it needs to be thrown away or something. Where the actual greenhouse will go will be that area next to that frame and will be sitting diagonal.

I'm so happy I had a fence surrounding my first palmetto at the time. As the greenhouse lifted, it dragged along the ground and knocked into the fence, and If it wasn't there, the greenhouse leg would have just decapitated it.

The area you highlighted in blue is the slope behind the post, It used to be landscaped at one point. I should probably pay attention to how the sunlight hits that area in winter and spring when the leaves start to grow. I think that area could look really good with the right plants and placements, crossing my fingers that I can manage that because I'm overwhelmed with the amount options for plants I have and if things work because I have limited resources 😂

I do want to add more cycads to my garden. I didn't consider other cycads because I wasn't sure what would 100% work and survive winter, but if Dioon edule works, I'd be happy to get some because I can already picture them while standing on the porch. 😂

I will do cannas and hibiscus anywhere and everywhere I can fit them and make them work, but probably not roses because, funny enough, I've always thought roses looked kinda ratty. My mom and grandma think the same thing too when the bushes have no flowers, and I'm not sure I want to pay too much attention to a rose bush unless I'm just not well-versed in roses, haha.

I do want the front yard of the house to be more formal and easy to maintain. The backyard will be more tropical looking plants and my zone pushes that need more attention, while the swampy and shady area near the garage will be a fun place I want to make lush and exotic. I also want to put lights down there to make the area look magical at night, making it look awesome to walk through and enjoy and less scary, as long as the deer flies aren't attacking. 😂

I read your links and It turns out I did collect the "spore flower" from the cinnamon fern, but I didn't actually believe that's where the spores came from, so I didn't properly store it and just placed it on my porch. At least now I know that when they come up this spring, I know what to look for and collect and hopefully have a cool little experiment.

I also figured out why my family hates magnolias. They dislike the fallen leaves and the aggressive roots that "seek" water, potentially damaging pipes. but these trees are not located close to the house. They also don't like the that magnolias have exposed roots above the ground? I'm just thinking, these are things some trees naturally do! They've always talk about concreting over the entire yard if they could 😭

I looked up the Red Buckeye and others, and I agree they probably couldn't be replacements for the Bradford pears. but they are gorgeous! I'll have to try and incorporate one somewhere eventually when I have things more defined!

I haven't had the time to catch up completely on this thread, but I'll make a few more suggestions.

There are hybrids between horse chestnut, Aesculus hippocastanum and Aesculus pavia that will form a nice pink flowered tree.

Dioon edule and the hardy cycads are great, I would also suggest mass plantings of coonties, Zamia integrifolia/floridana for ground cover. Just be prepared to protect your cycads when it get really cold.

[NCFM]

Water oak (Quercus nigra) is native and pretty fast growing (by oak standards), also semi-evergreen.  Swamp chestnut oak (Quercus michauxii) is another native that I've always thought looks good in the landscape, though it is deciduous.  Either live or laurel oak might be good fits, too. 

If you're interested, here's the link to a google doc I put together with a bunch of species (both native and non-native) that I'm thinking about planting at my house.  It includes basic descriptions and links to their cooperative extension pages. 

[Silas_Sancona]

1 minute ago, NCFM said:

Water oak (Quercus nigra) is native and pretty fast growing (by oak standards), also semi-evergreen.  Swamp chestnut oak (Quercus michauxii) is another native that I've always thought looks good in the landscape, though it is deciduous.  Can't go wrong with either live or laurel oak, either. 

If you're interested, here's the link to a google doc I put together with a bunch of species (both native and non-native) that I'm thinking about planting at my house.  It includes basic descriptions and links to their cooperative extension pages. 

Would not plant Water Oak... Messy, weak -wooded,  and have tons of surface roots. Next to Laurel Oak, these were a nightmare to deal with / landscape around in FL.

 

[Silas_Sancona]

14 hours ago, ZPalms said:

It took me a minute to respond to this because I needed to be ready to read 😂

Where the frame is sitting, there was a greenhouse that I put up last year, I think, and the wind destroyed it within the first week of having it. My family does not like my indoor plants, so they thought just having a space heater in an Amazon greenhouse would be enough. I knew I couldn't trust it to keep my plants safe from the cold because it doesn't insulate well, and of course a storm or wind came through and the stakes weren't strong enough, and the wind took it and tossed it. So, I just moved the broken frame there, and it needs to be thrown away or something. Where the actual greenhouse will go will be that area next to that frame and will be sitting diagonal.

I'm so happy I had a fence surrounding my first palmetto at the time. As the greenhouse lifted, it dragged along the ground and knocked into the fence, and If it wasn't there, the greenhouse leg would have just decapitated it.

The area you highlighted in blue is the slope behind the post, It used to be landscaped at one point. I should probably pay attention to how the sunlight hits that area in winter and spring when the leaves start to grow. I think that area could look really good with the right plants and placements, crossing my fingers that I can manage that because I'm overwhelmed with the amount options for plants I have and if things work because I have limited resources 😂

I do want to add more cycads to my garden. I didn't consider other cycads because I wasn't sure what would 100% work and survive winter, but if Dioon edule works, I'd be happy to get some because I can already picture them while standing on the porch. 😂

I will do cannas and hibiscus anywhere and everywhere I can fit them and make them work, but probably not roses because, funny enough, I've always thought roses looked kinda ratty. My mom and grandma think the same thing too when the bushes have no flowers, and I'm not sure I want to pay too much attention to a rose bush unless I'm just not well-versed in roses, haha.

I do want the front yard of the house to be more formal and easy to maintain. The backyard will be more tropical looking plants and my zone pushes that need more attention, while the swampy and shady area near the garage will be a fun place I want to make lush and exotic. I also want to put lights down there to make the area look magical at night, making it look awesome to walk through and enjoy and less scary, as long as the deer flies aren't attacking. 😂

I read your links and It turns out I did collect the "spore flower" from the cinnamon fern, but I didn't actually believe that's where the spores came from, so I didn't properly store it and just placed it on my porch. At least now I know that when they come up this spring, I know what to look for and collect and hopefully have a cool little experiment.

I also figured out why my family hates magnolias. They dislike the fallen leaves and the aggressive roots that "seek" water, potentially damaging pipes. but these trees are not located close to the house. They also don't like the that magnolias have exposed roots above the ground? I'm just thinking, these are things some trees naturally do! They've always talk about concreting over the entire yard if they could 😭

I looked up the Red Buckeye and others, and I agree they probably couldn't be replacements for the Bradford pears. but they are gorgeous! I'll have to try and incorporate one somewhere eventually when I have things more defined!

Went through and highlit some of the paragraphs..

As mentioned, while you definitely have a lot of plant options ( ..Forgot to mention Salvias = Sages ..Like S. mexicana, farinacea, coccinea, and S. guaranitica for seasonal color ) remember, you'll add these in over time ..years  rather than trying to get everything planted within a year or two..    A little here, a little there, as you're able to.. Take your time..   

W/ many of the natives, you can start from seed.  Others that might be a little more challenging to start from seed? no need to spend a ton on them ..Start small and as inexpensive as is available.  5" or 1gal plants is usually what i start with for stuff like that...

Other " prolific " stuff, like Cannas / any hardy Gingers, Bulbs, etc " tropical- esque " stuff, once you get a clump or two going, you can divide them every 2nd or 3rd year to spread around more.. Native Hibiscus will often seed, ..so you can start more once you get a few plants in the ground / flowering..


Cycads are definitely a cool element to add to your garden .. any formal area(s),  or in the more natural sections of it  ..again, no need to rush,  add them in over time.. 

As @amh  mentioned, if they'll survive there, Coonties are another, unique Cycad option you can plan on adding too ..when you can.  I'm sure there are members from FL here who'ed happily even send you some seed off their Coonties to start with.  VERY easy to germinate, though it can take a few weeks to get 'em sprouting..

I mentioned inclusion of " formal " plant options, for any beds right near the front entrance of your house like Roses only because ..I'd imagine.. many homes in the south have at least a couple roses somewhere in the landscape..  I'm not the biggest fan of them either, simply because i have more than enough " spiny ' things to play with and, they're a bit too old skool for my taste. ..That said,  they do add nice, traditional color and aren't horribly difficult to maintain ..Unless you have several.  Then maintaining them can become a bit of a chore.

Lighting is definitely an essential element of any landscape, even if you keep it simple and only install Solar -powered options..  ...Is one of those things you'd add over time / as you go along..

The big Magnolias, like Southern Magnolia can definitely put out a lot of surface roots, esp. of grown in an area where the roots can't penetrate deep into the soil profile ( say you live somewhere where a harder - to - penetrate bedrock layer of the soil is within 3ft of the surface ..of the soil )   ..or if not watered properly ( ..Light, frequent surface watering of -any- tree can cause it to perch a majority of it's root mass closer to the surface ..where it can easily access water ) I too would not plant those, unless  far away from a house / other area where surface roots might present issues.

Since they tend to stay smaller, overall, smaller Magnolia sps, like Sweet Bay,  Saucer Magnolia,  and/or  M. macrophylla / M. m. ashei  usually won't have lots of large surface roots.. Besides, those would go in areas where any surface roots that might be present, won't cause much trouble anyway.
 

[NCFM]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Would not plant Water Oak... Messy, weak -wooded,  and have tons of surface roots. Next to Laurel Oak, these were a nightmare to deal with / landscape around in FL.

 

Fair enough. I’ve never had to deal with having one in my own yard and didn’t know they are damage prone

[ZPalms]

7 hours ago, amh said:

I haven't had the time to catch up completely on this thread, but I'll make a few more suggestions.

There are hybrids between horse chestnut, Aesculus hippocastanum and Aesculus pavia that will form a nice pink flowered tree.

Dioon edule and the hardy cycads are great, I would also suggest mass plantings of coonties, Zamia integrifolia/floridana for ground cover. Just be prepared to protect your cycads when it get really cold.

Ooooh I like this tree too, Is the maximum size of this tree what's in the picture? I never considered Coonties, I'll have to grab some when the time is right!

 

6 hours ago, NCFM said:

Water oak (Quercus nigra) is native and pretty fast growing (by oak standards), also semi-evergreen.  Swamp chestnut oak (Quercus michauxii) is another native that I've always thought looks good in the landscape, though it is deciduous.  Either live or laurel oak might be good fits, too. 

If you're interested, here's the link to a google doc I put together with a bunch of species (both native and non-native) that I'm thinking about planting at my house.  It includes basic descriptions and links to their cooperative extension pages. 

Oh the google doc is fantastic! I'll have to take a look through it and I love the tree sizes being noted!

 

6 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Would not plant Water Oak... Messy, weak -wooded,  and have tons of surface roots. Next to Laurel Oak, these were a nightmare to deal with / landscape around in FL.

 

I think trees with surface roots are fine if they aren't in the main field where the bradford pears are, but down the hill is free game for me to do anything I want but the trees do need to be wind resistance

5 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Went through and highlit some of the paragraphs..

As mentioned, while you definitely have a lot of plant options ( ..Forgot to mention Salvias = Sages ..Like S. mexicana, farinacea, coccinea, and S. guaranitica for seasonal color ) remember, you'll add these in over time ..years  rather than trying to get everything planted within a year or two..    A little here, a little there, as you're able to.. Take your time..   

W/ many of the natives, you can start from seed.  Others that might be a little more challenging to start from seed? no need to spend a ton on them ..Start small and as inexpensive as is available.  5" or 1gal plants is usually what i start with for stuff like that...

Other " prolific " stuff, like Cannas / any hardy Gingers, Bulbs, etc " tropical- esque " stuff, once you get a clump or two going, you can divide them every 2nd or 3rd year to spread around more.. Native Hibiscus will often seed, ..so you can start more once you get a few plants in the ground / flowering..


Cycads are definitely a cool element to add to your garden .. any formal area(s),  or in the more natural sections of it  ..again, no need to rush,  add them in over time.. 

As @amh  mentioned, if they'll survive there, Coonties are another, unique Cycad option you can plan on adding too ..when you can.  I'm sure there are members from FL here who'ed happily even send you some seed off their Coonties to start with.  VERY easy to germinate, though it can take a few weeks to get 'em sprouting..

I mentioned inclusion of " formal " plant options, for any beds right near the front entrance of your house like Roses only because ..I'd imagine.. many homes in the south have at least a couple roses somewhere in the landscape..  I'm not the biggest fan of them either, simply because i have more than enough " spiny ' things to play with and, they're a bit too old skool for my taste. ..That said,  they do add nice, traditional color and aren't horribly difficult to maintain ..Unless you have several.  Then maintaining them can become a bit of a chore.

Lighting is definitely an essential element of any landscape, even if you keep it simple and only install Solar -powered options..  ...Is one of those things you'd add over time / as you go along..

The big Magnolias, like Southern Magnolia can definitely put out a lot of surface roots, esp. of grown in an area where the roots can't penetrate deep into the soil profile ( say you live somewhere where a harder - to - penetrate bedrock layer of the soil is within 3ft of the surface ..of the soil )   ..or if not watered properly ( ..Light, frequent surface watering of -any- tree can cause it to perch a majority of it's root mass closer to the surface ..where it can easily access water ) I too would not plant those, unless  far away from a house / other area where surface roots might present issues.

Since they tend to stay smaller, overall, smaller Magnolia sps, like Sweet Bay,  Saucer Magnolia,  and/or  M. macrophylla / M. m. ashei  usually won't have lots of large surface roots.. Besides, those would go in areas where any surface roots that might be present, won't cause much trouble anyway.
 

I do know it takes time for a garden to develop, and since the palms I currently have in the ground are like my foundation for everything I do in the future and how things look when I look out the windows or go outside and take in the surroundings, with limited resources I feel like I'm racing the warm seasons trying to do as much as I can before winter since It's only me doing things.

I'm also trying convince my family that the yard is worth handling and can look good with effort and time. Since I'm the only one who does any gardening, I feel like I need to hurry because my family is constantly talking about wanting to move out of the house because of XYZ problems with the house itself. things like springtails showing up inside during the warmer months and we just had the whole crawl space sealed up and a dehumidifier put in and they still show up but much less so something tells me theirs still rot happening somewhere and the house needing new windows and a new roof including gutters... etc.

They do tend to wait until the last minute when things get bad to handle problems and then wonder why the house has so many "issues." Anyway, it stresses me out because when I plant things like sabals, as they are more of a permanent thing, I'm unsure if they will decide to just out of nowhere, "We found a place!" and then I have to leave a lot of my sabals behind or keep them sitting in nursery pots because they can't decide on what they want to do. My family, for the most part, likes the house except for problems it has.

 

I can't even imagine how upsetting it would be to plant Mexicanas and the causiarums, and then they decide they want to move. The causiarums are at the age where, when I put them in the ground, they will go palmate, and that would be so annoying. Also, I just got all my washies in the ground last summer, and this year they should start moving quicker. If I have to dig them all up, it would be so annoying when they should be speeding up this year, including my first sabal and the bigger sabal transplant I did, and the butia.

But they always say they probably won't move, and that doesn't help because they say that, but they still browsing houses and that doesn't help me make a decision for planting 😂

That's my little rant on that 😂

I agree, roses are a bit old school. We have roses that pop up everywhere around the yard, and they look straggly looking. The flowers are amazing, but they just don't fit my vision at the moment. I wouldn't mind getting a decent rose bush, maybe one or two, but if I'm going to plant other thorny plants, let me put something more interesting like bougainvillea, I wish they were cold-hardier because I'd definitely find a place for one 😂.

Speaking of things that bite, I had no idea that Bradford pears had thorns. I recently found out, but also sort of knew but didn't, last summer when I chopped a tree down. I didn't know it was a Bradford pear, and it had the most painful and longest spikes that poked and cut me. I stepped on one recently, and it burned!

I can imagine in the front yard things like trachycarpus fortunei, cycads, hydrangeas, flowery types of trees, elephant ears and cannas, hibicous and cannas, ground covers and things of that nature. I suppose if I had roses they would go in that bed where the pecan tree is, mixed along with trachycarpus and cycads.

I do hope I could get actual outdoor lighting that plugs in just so I can control when they come on and if I want them on, but I won't be adding any of that until things start looking defined.

I'm not sure how to set up proper irrigation, I would love to set some up around my current plants because I hate watering one by one but where the bradford pears are I'm not sure how much water is in the ground over there naturally and I could water by hand but it would be so much easier if I had irrigation running down there so that things like Magnolia don't send roots to the surface.

That being said, I think I like the other Magnolia species better. I've never even heard of a Saucer Magnolia, and they are beautiful! The flowers are amazing, and the trees don't look like they get too big. They have a decent canopy that looks very nice and structured. 😍

Edited January 30, 2024 by ZPalms

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

 

I think trees with surface roots are fine if they aren't in the main field where the bradford pears are, but down the hill is free game for me to do anything I want but the trees do need to be wind resistance

I do know it takes time for a garden to develop, and since the palms I currently have in the ground are like my foundation for everything I do in the future and how things look when I look out the windows or go outside and take in the surroundings, with limited resources I feel like I'm racing the warm seasons trying to do as much as I can before winter since It's only me doing things.

I'm also trying convince my family that the yard is worth handling and can look good with effort and time. Since I'm the only one who does any gardening, I feel like I need to hurry because my family is constantly talking about wanting to move out of the house because of XYZ problems with the house itself. things like springtails showing up inside during the warmer months and we just had the whole crawl space sealed up and a dehumidifier put in and they still show up but much less so something tells me theirs still rot happening somewhere and the house needing new windows and a new roof including gutters... etc.

They do tend to wait until the last minute when things get bad to handle problems and then wonder why the house has so many "issues." Anyway, it stresses me out because when I plant things like sabals, as they are more of a permanent thing, I'm unsure if they will decide to just out of nowhere, "We found a place!" and then I have to leave a lot of my sabals behind or keep them sitting in nursery pots because they can't decide on what they want to do. My family, for the most part, likes the house except for problems it has.

 

I can't even imagine how upsetting it would be to plant Mexicanas and the causiarums, and then they decide they want to move. The causiarums are at the age where, when I put them in the ground, they will go palmate, and that would be so annoying. Also, I just got all my washies in the ground last summer, and this year they should start moving quicker. If I have to dig them all up, it would be so annoying when they should be speeding up this year, including my first sabal and the bigger sabal transplant I did, and the butia.

But they always say they probably won't move, and that doesn't help because they say that, but they still browsing houses and that doesn't help me make a decision for planting 😂

That's my little rant on that 😂

I agree, roses are a bit old school. We have roses that pop up everywhere around the yard, and they look straggly looking. The flowers are amazing, but they just don't fit my vision at the moment. I wouldn't mind getting a decent rose bush, maybe one or two, but if I'm going to plant other thorny plants, let me put something more interesting like bougainvillea, I wish they were cold-hardier because I'd definitely find a place for one 😂.

Speaking of things that bite, I had no idea that Bradford pears had thorns. I recently found out, but also sort of knew but didn't, last summer when I chopped a tree down. I didn't know it was a Bradford pear, and it had the most painful and longest spikes that poked and cut me. I stepped on one recently, and it burned!

I can imagine in the front yard things like trachycarpus fortunei, cycads, hydrangeas, flowery types of trees, elephant ears and cannas, hibicous and cannas, ground covers and things of that nature. I suppose if I had roses they would go in that bed where the pecan tree is, mixed along with trachycarpus and cycads.

I do hope I could get actual outdoor lighting that plugs in just so I can control when they come on and if I want them on, but I won't be adding any of that until things start looking defined.

I'm not sure how to set up proper irrigation, I would love to set some up around my current plants because I hate watering one by one but where the bradford pears are I'm not sure how much water is in the ground over there naturally and I could water by hand but it would be so much easier if I had irrigation running down there so that things like Magnolia don't send roots to the surface.

That being said, I think I like the other Magnolia species better. I've never even heard of a Saucer Magnolia, and they are beautiful! The flowers are amazing, and the trees don't look like they get too big. They have a decent canopy that looks very nice and structured. 😍

For wind resistance, Water Oak will definitely fall into the least resistant category.. There was a couple on the property of a nursery i'd worked at when i lived in Clearwater and ..along with several massive Laurel Oaks on the property, i always avoided being anywhere near them during some of the bigger storms experienced there.. Aside from that, the leaf litter dropped will drive you mad..

Other Oak NC had mentioned is stronger, and quite nice..  I'm sure there are likely specimens in your area ..or near swampy areas nearby.. 

What's weird about Bradford Pears is ...While briefly a trendy landscape tree option where i grew up in CA, those didn't have thorns.. That said, have seen others back east that had thorns ..Most likely, they were seed - grown " re-verts " ( ..offspring that reverted to the " original " species, rather than retaining the " thorn-less " trait that was present in a selected cultivar )  Nasty for sure.. though we have trees here that would put the thorny, wild Bradfords to shame, lol..  Regardless, yea, lol.. definitely don't want them around.

Btw, Bougainvillea? ...hate thorns?  ..You'll quickly grow to despise Bougainvillea ..the old skool / standard ones at least. I spent most of yesterday afternoon cleaning up one of the overgrown specimens in the in the yard and my hands / legs look like i was attacked by multiple cats / a raccoon or two, lol.  On a mission to get rid of them / replace with something else ..and a couple of the less thorny / slower growing /  easier to keep maintained Bougainvillea types.

Hopefully no one decides to move, lol.. That would definitely be a PITA getting started on getting the yard / landscaping going, and then ..poof, you had to move.  ...On the bright side, ..perhaps ..if your family did decide to, maybe you end up somewhere a tad warmer, say closer to 9A ..where you'd have even more options. 😁

As just mentioned, hopefully that doesn't happen ..i mean you've got a pretty nice chunk of land to play with there containing several different zones where you can create quite a varied landscape within. 

I actually kind of like native, " wild " roses, more than the " froofy " cultivated ones. Far easier to care for.. Just plant and leave alone.. Agree that the native ones can get a bit rangy looking though.

Installing irrigation is reasonably easy, but, with such a large area to cover, it could get expensive trying to cover all that ground..  Because you -generally- get more rain than pretty much anywhere out here,  most of the year,  you'll have a much easier time getting any trees / palms settled in w/ out too much extra water needed.  Most of the native stuff won't really need any extra water after about the 4th year after being planted in the ground.

Things that require more moisture, you'd plant only in areas that stay wetter for longer.. 

Saucer magnolia are nice trees.. and yes, definitely don't get all that large  ..Most cultivars at least.

[ZPalms]

3 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

For wind resistance, Water Oak will definitely fall into the least resistant category.. There was a couple on the property of a nursery i'd worked at when i lived in Clearwater and ..along with several massive Laurel Oaks on the property, i always avoided being anywhere near them during some of the bigger storms experienced there.. Aside from that, the leaf litter dropped will drive you mad..

Other Oak NC had mentioned is stronger, and quite nice..  I'm sure there are likely specimens in your area ..or near swampy areas nearby.. 

What's weird about Bradford Pears is ...While briefly a trendy landscape tree option where i grew up in CA, those didn't have thorns.. That said, have seen others back east that had thorns ..Most likely, they were seed - grown " re-verts " ( ..offspring that reverted to the " original " species, rather than retaining the " thorn-less " trait that was present in a selected cultivar )  Nasty for sure.. though we have trees here that would put the thorny, wild Bradfords to shame, lol..  Regardless, yea, lol.. definitely don't want them around.

Btw, Bougainvillea? ...hate thorns?  ..You'll quickly grow to despise Bougainvillea ..the old skool / standard ones at least. I spent most of yesterday afternoon cleaning up one of the overgrown specimens in the in the yard and my hands / legs look like i was attacked by multiple cats / a raccoon or two, lol.  On a mission to get rid of them / replace with something else ..and a couple of the less thorny / slower growing /  easier to keep maintained Bougainvillea types.

Hopefully no one decides to move, lol.. That would definitely be a PITA getting started on getting the yard / landscaping going, and then ..poof, you had to move.  ...On the bright side, ..perhaps ..if your family did decide to, maybe you end up somewhere a tad warmer, say closer to 9A ..where you'd have even more options. 😁

As just mentioned, hopefully that doesn't happen ..i mean you've got a pretty nice chunk of land to play with there containing several different zones where you can create quite a varied landscape within. 

I actually kind of like native, " wild " roses, more than the " froofy " cultivated ones. Far easier to care for.. Just plant and leave alone.. Agree that the native ones can get a bit rangy looking though.

Installing irrigation is reasonably easy, but, with such a large area to cover, it could get expensive trying to cover all that ground..  Because you -generally- get more rain than pretty much anywhere out here,  most of the year,  you'll have a much easier time getting any trees / palms settled in w/ out too much extra water needed.  Most of the native stuff won't really need any extra water after about the 4th year after being planted in the ground.

Things that require more moisture, you'd plant only in areas that stay wetter for longer.. 

Saucer magnolia are nice trees.. and yes, definitely don't get all that large  ..Most cultivars at least.

I'll really have to look at all the different oak species; I really would like a quicker type of oak, but I'll settle for a moderate pace or slower if something catches my eye.

I do see Bradford pears often in my grandma's neighborhood, and none of them have thorns. But, I do believe the seeds must have reverted back to their original traits because the one that I cut down had naturally planted itself, and the thorns are not present in the mother trees, which are the ones I'm going to cut down or the seed came from somewhere else.

I actually love thorny types of plants. I think palms with thorns are sooooo cool, even though they do get me sometimes. That's my fault for brushing my hands around the petioles without being too careful when I'm covering them. But I do think Bougainvilleas are cool, and I see some types that seem cold hardier. But as of now, I have nowhere that I want them to climb if I even considered trying one.

I'm hoping we don't move because I think this yard has such potential to be great! And I agree that it could look so different depending on what section of the yard you're in. I think that would be so cool where you walk into the backyard, and it's lush and green, and in the front yard, it's formal and clean, and in the swamp, it could be maintained and controlled! but funny enough, we wouldn't be moving anywhere very far, same area but different house. 

We have one rose that's self-planted by the fence next to that "oak," and it's very rangy, but it will bloom out one big flower on top and maybe some tiny ones on the side, and then that's it 😂

I more so want irrigation in the backyard, and depending on what's in the front yard or on specific plants, but overall, I want the majority to thrive without me having to irrigate everything. Like in the high heat of summer, I do not water my palms or bananas as often as I should because it's a lot of back and forth to make sure they are getting good drinks of water and making sure its absorbs where I need it.

I hope out of all the trees everyone has recommended, I could settle on one because there are so many good options that I'll have to incorporate some way or another regardless of which I pick to replace the Bradford pears. 😍

Edited January 30, 2024 by ZPalms

[amh]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:36 PM, ZPalms said:

Ooooh I like this tree too, Is the maximum size of this tree what's in the picture? I never considered Coonties, I'll have to grab some when the time is right!

I'm not sure how big the tree in the picture is, but I believe the hybrid should be capable of about 40 feet in height. It's on my buy one if I see one for sale list.

[amh]

You should have a few native rose species that could be planted informally as under story plants or at the edge of the forest.

Unfortunately, the ubiquity of the knockout roses and their poor upkeep have ruined many peoples opinions on roses, but I still like them. You may consider Butterfly rose, AKA Mutabalis, not to be confused with confederate rose. The Butterfly rose should stay evergreen where you are, is a fast grower, and can be pruned so that it grows very thick.

[Silas_Sancona]

7 minutes ago, amh said:

I'm not sure how big the tree in the picture is, but I believe the hybrid should be capable of about 40 feet in height. It's on my buy one if I see one for sale list.

When i was in elementary school, there was a house i'd pass quite often near the highschool i'd end up attending that had one in their yard  ( didn't know what it was until years later ) that was approx 30 X 30 ...so your thought on mature size is well within the ballpark.  Don't know what happened to it ..or the collection of Bearded Iris that had surrounded it, but, no longer there..

Oddly enough, i think it disappeared not long after the '90 freeze,  ..Around the same time some Coral trees in another part of the overall neighborhood were removed after they were damaged.   Odd since Buckeyes, even this cross,  is much hardier to cold compared to anything " tropical " planted there at the time,  or now.

[Silas_Sancona]

24 minutes ago, amh said:

I'm not sure how big the tree in the picture is, but I believe the hybrid should be capable of about 40 feet in height. It's on my buy one if I see one for sale list.

You might check Wilson Bros Gardens out of McDonough, Georgia..  Looks like they may have 3 gal they can ship sometime this spring. Might have 7gals in stock currently as well.  No $ listed, but might not hurt to shoot them an e mail.

[amh]

12 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

When i was in elementary school, there was a house i'd pass quite often near the highschool i'd end up attending that had one in their yard  ( didn't know what it was until years later ) that was approx 30 X 30 ...so your thought on mature size is well within the ballpark.  Don't know what happened to it ..or the collection of Bearded Iris that had surrounded it, but, no longer there..

Oddly enough, i think it disappeared not long after the '90 freeze,  ..Around the same time some Coral trees in another part of the overall neighborhood were removed after they were damaged.   Odd since Buckeyes, even this cross,  is much hardier to cold compared to anything " tropical " planted there at the time,  or now.

That's a bit of a mystery, it would be odd if the cold damaged the tree, both parent species should be hardy to 0F or lower. Maybe it was too accustomed to mild weather.

[amh]

3 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

You might check Wilson Bros Gardens out of McDonough, Georgia..  Looks like they may have 3 gal they can ship sometime this spring. Might have 7gals in stock currently as well.  No $ listed, but might not hurt to shoot them an e mail.

Thanks, i'll have to look into it.

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, amh said:

That's a bit of a mystery, it would be odd if the cold damaged the tree, both parent species should be hardy to 0F or lower. Maybe it was too accustomed to mild weather.

More than likely, someone bought the house and completely gutted the landscaping that had been there..  Pretty much grass and a few blah foundation bushes there now.

[Silas_Sancona]

1 minute ago, amh said:

Thanks, i'll have to look into it.

Worth a shot at least for sure..  Not sure if  it will grow out there ( Zone listing suggests 7A - 10B ), but they have a Red / Orange Flowered Osmanthus ( Tea Olive ) listed as well that caught my eye..  Grandparents have had the traditional, white / pale yellow-ish flowered type in their yard since  ..the 70's. 

Seen yellow-er flowering specimens ..but not one with fiery, dark orange flowers.

[amh]

8 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

More than likely, someone bought the house and completely gutted the landscaping that had been there..  Pretty much grass and a few blah foundation bushes there now.

This is one of my major fears. If I plant a bunch of interesting and rare plants and end up moving, they will be destroyed so that more concrete can go down. 

[ZPalms]

5 minutes ago, amh said:

You should have a few native rose species that could be planted informally as under story plants or at the edge of the forest.

Unfortunately, the ubiquity of the knockout roses and their poor upkeep have ruined many peoples opinions on roses, but I still like them. You may consider Butterfly rose, AKA Mutabalis, not to be confused with confederate rose. The Butterfly rose should stay evergreen where you are, is a fast grower, and can be pruned so that it grows very thick.

I've seen roses requiring major upkeep and shaping, which is why I don't consider them. I also lack knowledge about pruning, except to clean my shears before cutting. 😂 but I looked up the butterfly rose, and that is a very beautiful looking rose bush. The flowers remind me of an ocean sunset. I might have to reconsider for those roses. 😂

 

[amh]

2 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I've seen roses requiring major upkeep and shaping, which is why I don't consider them. I also lack knowledge about pruning, except to clean my shears before cutting. 😂 but I looked up the butterfly rose, and that is a very beautiful looking rose bush. The flowers remind me of an ocean sunset. I might have to reconsider for those roses. 😂

 

The butterfly rose is a China rose and wont really need any pruning, unless you desire a certain shape. The plant is naturally bushy, so there is rarely a need for upkeep. My favorite Tea rose is Mrs Dudley Cross, it's nearly thornless, grows bushy and can exceed 10ft. Both cultivars are very hardy and require almost no maintenance once established.

Look for the classics.

[Silas_Sancona]

12 hours ago, amh said:

This is one of my major fears. If I plant a bunch of interesting and rare plants and end up moving, they will be destroyed so that more concrete can go down. 

Eh, Haven't worried about that anywhere i've lived..  Stuff happens..  Trumpet Trees, Pygmys and some other " rare for the area " stuff are still planted where i planted them in CA ..just over 13 years ago..  Some palms, a Tipu in FL,  9 or so years ago,  Other stuff planted in the time spent here.. Most of it should remain..

What i'd like to do is plant / donate  some of the rarer stuff to local parks ..where the chance of them being yanked when some non- plant yutz who moves in decides to re do a yard is less of a threat.  

Regardless, is what it is..

In the case of the Buckeye back home,  yard layout is still the same.. no added concrete surfaces / house additions added. Only things missing are the tree, a picket fence, and the Bearded Iris. ..and maybe some other plants that were changed out over the 30+ years of time.   That happens.    ..Just wish someone would have thought to plant a few of them in a nearby park, haha.  I would if still out there ..Alongside other, more uncommon " tropical " flowering trees that should be more common up there.   

[Calosphace]

For the buckeye IMHO they are best as understory trees in the southeast.  I really like them and they are a good "companion" to a canopy species like an oak.

I second the Sweetbay magnolia. It is a fine plant and has a much broader natural range than Magnolia grandiflora. I'm not sure if they eat it up there but in Florida it is what the Tiger swallowtails eat.

Butterfly roses Rosa mutabilis are great. i have them at work in an area where basically only beach sunflower will grow they are quite tough plants and bloom year round even light freezes will not stop em

And yeah Water oak is easily damaged so I do not recommend it in near structures/a garden setting. The only hurricane resistant tree that is fast-growing that I can think of when I researched is Sweet gum. Is Tulip poplar also hurricane resistant? The studies I was looking at are in central and south FL where there aren't many of those. That's another fine fast growing species too. I know Magnolia is on the wind-resistant list.

I have a "if I ever have money to buy a home" dream plant list file lol and under trees it is: Shumard oak, Southern live oak, River birch, Sycamore, Longleaf pine, Pond cypress, Winged elm, Red maple, Tupelo, Pignut hickory, Sweetbay magnolia, solitary trained elderberry, Red mulberry or Morus nigra, Central FL ecotype Tulip poplar, loquat, parsley hawthorn, pawpaws, redbud, & guthrie plum

 

Two smaller treeform "companions" worth looking into:

Parsley hawthorn

one of my absolute favorite native plants it really ought to be as common as beautyberry, it kind of looks like gingko to me since the branching is similar in my experience and leaf color is the same despite the different leaf shape + it has cute flowers + edible fruit (idk the quality I just know it isnt toxic) + bark on older specimens is quite interesting like crape myrtles

Sideroxylon lycioides might be hard to source but worth looking into, should be evergreen during warmer winters. Sideroxylons in general are overlooked plants

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2024 by Calosphace

[Silas_Sancona]

11 minutes ago, Calosphace said:

For the buckeye IMHO they are best as understory trees in the southeast.  I really like them and they are a good "companion" to a canopy species like an oak.

I second the Sweetbay magnolia. It is a fine plant and has a much broader natural range than Magnolia grandiflora. I'm not sure if they eat it up there but in Florida it is what the Tiger swallowtails eat.

And yeah Water oak is easily damaged so I do not recommend it in near structures/a garden setting. The only hurricane resistant tree that is fast-growing that I can think of when I researched is Sweet gum. Is Tulip poplar also hurricane resistant? The studies I was looking at are in central and south FL where there aren't many of those. That's another fine fast growing species too. I know Magnolia is on the wind-resistant list.

 

Two smaller treeform "companions" worth looking into:

Parsley hawthorn

one of my absolute favorite native plants it really ought to be as common as beautyberry, it kind of looks like gingko to me since the branching is similar in my experience and leaf color is the same despite the different leaf shape + it has cute flowers + edible fruit (idk the quality I just know it isnt toxic) + bark on older specimens is quite interesting like crape myrtles

Sideroxylon lycioides might be hard to source but worth looking into, should be evergreen during warmer winters. Sideroxylons in general are overlooked plants

 

 

 

 

 

Agree whole-heartedly about both Beautybeary ...and native Sideroxylon sps not being utilized enough..


As far as both Tulip Tree  ...and Sweetgum go,  Both were planted around my old neighborhood back in CA ( ..and in many other spots in / around San Jose ) sometime in the late 60s / 70s. 

Sweegums i grew up around broke easily in high wind events ..Watched a couple  barely miss some cars when a storm brought the whole tree(s) down.  Entire top half of another, 4 houses down the block, fell into the front of that house during the same storm.  They also completely destroyed the sidewalk on that street.

That said, there is a neighborhood nearby where there are numerous HUGE, old Liquidamber  and ..to my knowledge, they apparently don't suffer the same level of damage as those planted in other areas. 

On the other hand, several in that area have been removed over the years due to lifting of sidewalk / driveway issues, and the " spike balls " that like to prey on unsuspecting ankles and knees, lol.. Had my far share of Liquidamber - related scrapes and bruises as a kid.  In that neighborhood, trees were given a 10 x 10 cut out at the street ..and still terrorized the sidewalks.  Stunning sight in the fall though.


Tulip Trees, out there at least? ..an absolute nightmare.. Break easily enough,  but the biggest issue seen w/ them is they attract some type of sucking insect that will literally coat the street below them ( ..and any vehicle parked there ) in a thick, gooey glaze that makes the street look like polished glass. Always liked the flowers, but, what a Gahd dang mess.  haha.

When delivering some fruit trees to a client's house, there were numerous "  No Parking " signs  placed under large specimens that hadn't yet been removed on the street the person we were delivering to lived.  After talking with some city tree guys who were in the area assessing a couple of the trees,  we agreed .." One of the worst street trees the city ever decided to plant " 

[ZPalms]

If whats in the forest are Tulip poplar trees, Our strongest hurricane was matthew and none of them broke or snapped and they leaned with the wind. I'll have to take a photo of them when the leaves come back to really know.

I did find pictures of the "Oak" by the fence, I hope the quality is good enough to see the leaves  and because I know when I upload these the compression is gonna make it hard to zoom In I attached zoomed in parts of the tree

Edited February 1, 2024 by ZPalms

[ZPalms]

Found a nice size sweetbay in the woods in front of my house, how well do they transplant and can you dig them up?

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

Found a nice size sweetbay in the woods in front of my house, how well do they transplant and can you dig them up?

That size, you probably won't have much trouble moving it   ...As long as you get a good - sized root ball...   and keep it moist after planting. Highly recommend using a shapshooter / transplanting shovel if you don't already have one.

Would stake it as well so it doesn't wiggle around too much while putting down a new root system.

Would also soak it ( if the soil is drier ) when you go to remove / relocate.

Edited February 15, 2024 by Silas_Sancona
edit

[ZPalms]

It's been a while since Ive visited this thread but I just wanna know can bradford pear wood be used as garden boarder? I googled to see if it was allelopathic and apparently it is but does that mean it conflict with the growth of my plants?

[Silas_Sancona]

2 hours ago, ZPalms said:

It's been a while since Ive visited this thread but I just wanna know can bradford pear wood be used as garden boarder? I googled to see if it was allelopathic and apparently it is but does that mean it conflict with the growth of my plants?

Since the allelopathic compounds are produced while the tree / plant is alive, once killed those compounds will break down -usually pretty quickly-  once they are no longer produced  ...so, if you let the wood sit for a couple weeks after cutting,  you shouldn't have any issues.

It will start decomposing though, so using whatever wood is left after cutting will only work as a border for so long..

All that said, those " inhibiting " chemicals only effect any new seedlings trying to grow within X distance the plant producing the chemical / compound, rather than anything that is already established  -typically at least-  and the degree of effectiveness can vary ..some stuff will be more ..or less.. effected by the chemical / chemicals produced.

Compared with some plants that can produce X  and / or Y compound(s) which can completely clear all  vegetation growing within a certain distance of them, i don't think Bradfords are one of them.. I'm sure you see some deg. of grasses / other stuff growing near them out in the woods, which provides a good clue that it's ability to thwart competing growth around them is limited ...compared to those plants that have the ability to knock down almost anything trying to grow near them at least..

Plants whose leaves / wood has a strong scent, ..Eucalyptus, Bottlebrush, Meleleuca, Creosote Bush, Rosemary / Sage,  and / or Bay leaf ( ..And or other trees int he Laurel Fam. ) would be those which produce pretty effective  allelopathic compounds..

Same w/ some trees / other plants that produce a highly reactive milky or oily sap that can result in a rash / other negative effects when cut / handled  ..Ficus / Ficus fam. relatives, -to some deg at least-,  many plants in the Euphorbia family ( ..Manchaneel is an extreme Euphorb. fam. example )  Some plants in the Dogbane family like Oleander and  Cascabela / Thevetia,  and of course, plants in the Sumac family ..Poison Oak / Ivy / Sumac,  and Poisonwood, ( Genus Metopium ) esp.

Still, even below Manchaneel or Poisonwood you'll often find some stuff growing near / beneath them that aren't negatively effected by the chemicals / compounds they produce to keep the ground around them clear of competition.

 

[RainforestCafe]

I know this thread is old, but I saw some of the earlier comments regarding live oak, and wanted to add some input, maybe useful maybe not.

Live oak was mentioned as being slow, and my experience is anything but slow. I used to live in North Carolina, up in Fuquay Varina when I was working at Fort Bragg (now Liberty). I planted a decent sized live oak at my house there, it was probably 6' tall when I planted it, and it was the fastest growing tree I had. It put on almost 4' of growth in the first year 👍 

My mom planted a little 3 gallon live oak in her backyard (also in NC), and it's been a steady grower as well. They just like lots of sun and water.

[ZPalms]

56 minutes ago, RainforestCafe said:

I know this thread is old, but I saw some of the earlier comments regarding live oak, and wanted to add some input, maybe useful maybe not.

Live oak was mentioned as being slow, and my experience is anything but slow. I used to live in North Carolina, up in Fuquay Varina when I was working at Fort Bragg (now Liberty). I planted a decent sized live oak at my house there, it was probably 6' tall when I planted it, and it was the fastest growing tree I had. It put on almost 4' of growth in the first year 👍 

My mom planted a little 3 gallon live oak in her backyard (also in NC), and it's been a steady grower as well. They just like lots of sun and water.

I think my main problem with growing a live oak is the space it requires. I have plenty of space, but committing to a spot for it is tough because I always think about the future and how things will look down the road. I'm also indecisive and constantly change my mind about different areas and ideas. 🤠

[RainforestCafe]

@ZPalms oh yeah, I totally get that. I contemplate for months sometimes or even over a year about where I'm going to put a plant. Sometimes I even dig a hole and put the plant in the hole in its pot to "try the spot out" and let it sit there for awhile to see if I like it.