Trachycarpus Fortunei in tropical climates

[Palmfarmer]

I see some people claim the reason trachycarpus does poorly in wet and hot climates due to no cooldown in the season. While others think it is the nematodes in the south Florida soil that kills them.

I am wondering if I would have a good chance at planting Trachycarpus in Mazatlan in ground perhaps in the shade and have it thrive? 

I am also wondering how a Parajubaea Torallyi would do in such climate? 

[SeanK]

Trachycarpus is a temperate palm. Even here in Atlanta, it slows way down mid July and August. I would guess you want to give it afternoon shade and clay soil. That being said, your neighbors can't distinguish between Trachycarpus, Trithrinax, or even Thrinax. 

[SeanK]

How hot are the summers in Mazatlan? Near the ocean might be ok for Parajubaea, or again with PM shade if it's consistently hot.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 1/7/2024 at 3:34 PM, Palmfarmer said:

I see some people claim the reason trachycarpus does poorly in wet and hot climates due to no cooldown in the season. While others think it is the nematodes in the south Florida soil that kills them.

I am wondering if I would have a good chance at planting Trachycarpus in Mazatlan in ground perhaps in the shade and have it thrive? 

I am also wondering how a Parajubaea Torallyi would do in such climate? 

Expand  

Aside from this point in the year, too hot for Parajubea, likely too hot for a Trachy there ..or in P. V.  Might work high in the mountains though ( upper end of the Pine -Oak woodland belt, or subalpine Pine / Fir mountaintop / cloud forest areas )  numerous other palms you can grow in the warmer areas, several that are native.

[redbeard917]

I think you are on to something with the nematodes. I happen to have lived in a part of Florida where there is a transition between clay and sandy soils, and I saw Trachycarpus live for decades in clay areas, and die within a year in sandy soil. From what I've seen, amending the soil will be a key component.

[NC_Palms]

  On 1/8/2024 at 12:23 AM, redbeard917 said:

I think you are on to something with the nematodes. I happen to have lived in a part of Florida where there is a transition between clay and sandy soils, and I saw Trachycarpus live for decades in clay areas, and die within a year in sandy soil. From what I've seen, amending the soil will be a key component.

Expand  

Trachies never do too well in eastern NC because of nemotodes. This species hates sandy soil, but does so well in clay. They prefer colder temperatures with clay soil in central and western NC than here. 

[Than]

The last palm I'd grow if I were in a tropical climate would be that ugly duckling 😅 but de gustibus et de coloribus.. 

[howfam]

  On 1/8/2024 at 4:38 AM, NC_Palms said:

Trachies never do too well in eastern NC because of nemotodes. This species hates sandy soil, but does so well in clay. They prefer colder temperatures with clay soil in central and western NC than here. 

Expand  

Speaking of clay soil. I'm in Jacksonville, Fl (N.E Fla. Zone 9a) with lots of sandy soil. But, Florida's panhandle area (like Tallahassee area) has lots of red clay soil, and I wonder if Trachys will thrive there. It's generally cooler in winter (it's low temps), than the coast, but might be hotter in summer.  Anyone know of any success stories with Trachycarpus in that area of Florida?

[howfam]

  On 1/8/2024 at 12:23 AM, redbeard917 said:

I think you are on to something with the nematodes. I happen to have lived in a part of Florida where there is a transition between clay and sandy soils, and I saw Trachycarpus live for decades in clay areas, and die within a year in sandy soil. From what I've seen, amending the soil will be a key component.

Expand  

Thanks for that information.  Do you have pics of successful Trachys in the clay soil areas (like the panhandle) of Florida? If so, please post.

[peachy]

Where I live gets very hot, between 35 and 42c all summer and the humidity is killing. I planted a tiny trachy 3 years ago and it grew like a weed and looks fabulous. Excuse the silly video, it was meant to be a photo but I did something wrong.

Peachy

[peachy]

  On 1/8/2024 at 5:56 PM, Than said:

The last palm I'd grow if I were in a tropical climate would be that ugly duckling 😅 but de gustibus et de coloribus.. 

Expand  

Have a look at my tropical Trachycarpus. I don't think anyone could call him ugly.

Peachy

[howfam]

  On 2/8/2024 at 2:31 AM, peachy said:

Where I live gets very hot, between 35 and 42c all summer and the humidity is killing. I planted a tiny trachy 3 years ago and it grew like a weed and looks fabulous. Excuse the silly video, it was meant to be a photo but I did something wrong.

Peachy

Expand  

So beautiful to come from a place where it gets so hot. Is the soil there a clay type soil? 

[Foxpalms]

  On 1/8/2024 at 5:56 PM, Than said:

The last palm I'd grow if I were in a tropical climate would be that ugly duckling 😅 but de gustibus et de coloribus.. 

Expand  

What happens when you put a trachy in the sun in a dry tropical climate 

Compared to the shade 

Even though I'm not a huge fan of the look of these palms it is funny to see one growing right next to a lipstick palm and coconuts!

[peachy]

  On 2/8/2024 at 7:33 AM, howfam said:

So beautiful to come from a place where it gets so hot. Is the soil there a clay type soil? 

Expand  

Yes I have heavy black clay that needs a lot of time and amendment done to it before I can  plant anything.  I don't take the heat well and don't live here by choice.

Peachy

[jwf1983]

I travel often to Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil, and spend much time in Ubatuba, Sao Paulo, Brazil, as well.  I saw several Trachy f. thriving in both locations (though I never thought. enough of it to snap a few photos.  I know Porto Alegre has a cooler/cold season, that I would consider similar to maybe to New Orleans, LA, or Orlando, FL in terms of winter "chill"--though they do not get polar vortexed in the same way we do in North America.  Outlying "suburban" areas can dip below freezing several times a winter (particularly in the mountains), while in the city, temps generally stay a few degrees above freezing, even during the coldest of nights.  When its particularly cold, the Minuano wind, as my mother-in-law says, blows from the "cu do mundo" (Argentina)--that's usually as cold as it gets though.  Right outside of the house and up the street there are two Trachy f, mature, 12 feet tall or so, and facing east.  It is shielded from the often brutal afternoon sun in the summer, and I do think that helps.  Both looking great along the sidewalk and street.

There are also several Trachy f. in Ubatuba, which is, more or less a classical Tropical Rainforest climate, embedded in the densely packet Mata Atlantica Rainforest.  The few that I noticed all looked just fine as well, despite having absolutely no cold at any point during the year.

 

These are just small few examples, but I don't know how much a cold season has to do with it's growth and development.  From what I've noticed with my own Trachy f. in Washington, DC neighborhood downtown, it just doesn't much like extremes.  To this point, I have not needed to protect it very much at all, even with it being very small--though during nights with low 20's forecasted, ill wrap frost cloth around it's trunk.  After the 4 or so inches of wet snow in January weighed the fronds down to the ground, everything was fine after brushing off the snow.  When I planted it, out of concern for the winter cold, I ended up planting it along a south facing fence, receiving some of the first light in the morning, and about 6-9 hours of sunlight everyday, depending on the season.  Even here, unless I drench the Trachy f. almost daily, it takes a considerable hit in the summertime direct sunlight.  I noticed others with similar exposure in place like VA Beach, Corolla, NC, Charleston, SC, also take considerable abuse from direct sunlight exposure if left unattended.  Trachy f.  can grow and thrive just about anywhere (with reasonably mild winters)  if given attention.  Certainly in tropical places too.

[Harry’s Palms]

I live in a warm temperate climate . The summers are warm , not too hot except for occasional heat waves that last a few days. I planted a small one on my south facing hill in full sun. I think it would look better with some shade but it is growing just fine . We do get a cool down season but rarely below 40f . I don’t think of them as ugly at all but my wife really doesn’t like the look of the fibrous trunk , so it wasn’t planted near the house where it could get afternoon shade when young. 

[redbeard917]

  On 2/8/2024 at 12:14 AM, howfam said:

Thanks for that information.  Do you have pics of successful Trachys in the clay soil areas (like the panhandle) of Florida? If so, please post.

Expand  

Here's one I bought as T. wagnerianus in a 3 gal and gave to my father in law in Tallahassee.

[Harry’s Palms]

I found a photo of mine planted in full since it was very young . I think it is about 5 years old.  Harry

[Jonathan Haycock]

Mt. Coot-Tha Botanical Garden, Brisbane Queensland have Trachycarpus fortunei, wagnerianus, and martianus growing in pretty deep shade. Personally I think they all look like crap. Leggy, skinny, and generally no where near their potential. In a sub-tropical climate like here, Trachycarpus need some sun exposure to look their best IMO (at least morning exposure).

I’m growing most species of Trachycarpus in pots 30 minutes south of Brisbane in Bahrs Scrub. Our summer has been extremely hot and humid so far this year, yet they are thriving. Breakdown of exposure, although I’m sure some can take more sun than I’m currently giving them (space issues in current rental):

1. Trachycarpus fortunei “Nainital” x princeps F1. Full afternoon sun, baking on the concrete driveway. 
2. Trachycarpus fortunei “Tesan”. Full afternoon sun, baking on the concrete driveway. 
3. Trachycarpus geminisectus. Full sun for most of the day. 
4. Trachycarpus latisectus. Seedlings partial shade all day. Believe they will do well with morning sun when older.
5. Trachycarpus martianus “Khasia Hills”. Seedlings partial shade all day. Believe they will do well with morning sun when older.
6. Trachycarpus martianus “Nepal”. Seedlings partial shade all day. Believe they will do well with morning sun when older.
7. Trachycarpus nanus. Seedlings did not like full sun. Now partial shade all day. Believe they will do well with morning sun when older.
8. Trachycarpus nanus x princeps F1. Full sun until midday.
9. Trachycarpus nanus x wagnerianus F2. Leaves closed up in full sun, so partial shade all day. 
10. Trachycarpus nova x princeps F1. Full afternoon sun, baking on the concrete driveway. 
11. Trachycarpus oreophilus. Full sun until midday. 
12. Trachycarpus princeps. Full afternoon sun, baking on the concrete driveway. 
13. Trachycarpus princeps x wagnerianus F1. Full sun until midday. 
14. Trachycarpus takil. Seedlings did not like full sun so are now thriving in partial shade. Reckon morning sun will be fine when older.
15. Trachycarpus takil x fortunei F2. Full afternoon sun.
16. Trachycarpus ukhrulensis. Full sun for most of the day. 
17. Trachycarpus wagnerianus. I’ve had them growing in both all day sun and full sun until midday. Look just as good in both. Prone to rot if too much shade. 
18. Trachycarpus wagnerianus x princeps F1. Full sun until midday. 
19. Trachycarpus wagnerianus x nova F1. Full sun for a good part of the day from early morning to late afternoon. 

Edited February 8, 2024 by Jonathan Haycock

[howfam]

  On 2/8/2024 at 2:34 PM, redbeard917 said:

Here's one I bought as T. wagnerianus in a 3 gal and gave to my father in law in Tallahassee.

Expand  

That's a beauty. I'm starting to see that clay soil really makes the difference in how Trachys develop from an early age. Makes me want to dig my small T. Fortunei up and back- fill with clay.