The two tone red of the chambeyronia macrocarpa

[happypalms]

Noticed this chambeyronia leaf today it’s not a new leaf but a dying leaf you also get a hint of red from the old dying leaf you can’t beat chambeyronia for there red new growth 

[Harry’s Palms]

My Chambryronia is just opening a new frond. I anxiously await every new leaf . I never had one red as they die, they just get brown . Harry

[BayAndroid]

51 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

My Chambryronia is just opening a new frond. I anxiously await every new leaf . I never had one red as they die, they just get brown . Harry

They will open red and that would be the only time. There are some rarer green leaf variants. I have the same situation with one of mine. It might be a green only. 

[Darold Petty]

I had a 5 -gallon Chambeyronia macrocarpa, and then a 5-gallon C. 'hookeri',  solid green both times.  I will never purchase another one  unless it is showing the red leaf at that time. 

I wonder if there is some explanation about this failure, 

 perhaps my microclimate is too cool and humid ? Did I provide an insufficient light level ? Do they start green and then "grow into" the red flush ?

Your comments,  please, and thank you ! 

[happypalms]

1 hour ago, Darold Petty said:

I had a 5 -gallon Chambeyronia macrocarpa, and then a 5-gallon C. 'hookeri',  solid green both times.  I will never purchase another one  unless it is showing the red leaf at that time. 

I wonder if there is some explanation about this failure, 

 perhaps my microclimate is too cool and humid ? Did I provide an insufficient light level ? Do they start green and then "grow into" the red flush ?

Your comments,  please, and thank you ! 

Hi darold shame about your chambeyronia especially two not throwing red my suspicion is to hot and dry I had one this season I noticed a new leaf not red that’s only a guess but I did think to dry as to why no red 

[happypalms]

3 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

My Chambryronia is just opening a new frond. I anxiously await every new leaf . I never had one red as they die, they just get brown . Harry

It could be a temperature thing I have noticed a few dead red leaves over the years and thought it was a bonus 

[James B]

7 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

I had a 5 -gallon Chambeyronia macrocarpa, and then a 5-gallon C. 'hookeri',  solid green both times.  I will never purchase another one  unless it is showing the red leaf at that time. 

I wonder if there is some explanation about this failure, 

 perhaps my microclimate is too cool and humid ? Did I provide an insufficient light level ? Do they start green and then "grow into" the red flush ?

Your comments,  please, and thank you ! 

I had a Macrocarpa Watermelon and another Macrocarpa at my old house that threw yellowish new leaves. From 2 different nurseries. 

Overall I’ve owned maybe 15 between my two gardens. The 8 have currently (5 Macrocarpa, 3 Hookeri) all throw red.

I remember reading an old Jungle Music article stating the green happens about 1 out of 20 or 5%. 

I think the best thing you can do is buy multiple palms and the math most of the time will be in your favor or only buy if you see it’s opening a new leaf and it’s red at the nursery.

[James B]

I will also say Darold that when they are small 1-5 gallon size many throw more muted orangish colored leaves which I’ve found develop into more vibrant red as they grow to more of a 15 gallon or larger size.

[DoomsDave]

7 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

I had a 5 -gallon Chambeyronia macrocarpa, and then a 5-gallon C. 'hookeri',  solid green both times.  I will never purchase another one  unless it is showing the red leaf at that time. 

I wonder if there is some explanation about this failure, 

 perhaps my microclimate is too cool and humid ? Did I provide an insufficient light level ? Do they start green and then "grow into" the red flush ?

Your comments,  please, and thank you ! 

Whoa Darold that IS odd. I’ve never had a hookeri with a green new leaf, though young plants aren’t as red as the adults get. Those were nice big plants too. 
 

I’ve grown hundreds by now at Chateau Chambeyronia.

[DoomsDave]

20 minutes ago, James B said:

I will also say Darold that when they are small 1-5 gallon size many throw more muted orangish colored leaves which I’ve found develop into more vibrant red as they grow to more of a 15 gallon or larger size.

Agreed!

[Darold Petty]

Thanks for all the comments.  I still believe that the problem has something to do with my unique, cool climate.  For instance, I have purchased Sadleria cyathoides twice,  from two vendors who claim all their ferns throw a reddish flush to the new frond.  My experience was zip, nada, negatory, zilch ! 

I may ask Phil to notify me when he has a really good, strong colored one,  and then just drive down to take delivery.         It is still a beautiful palm with those wide, leathery leaflets. 

 

[BayAndroid]

2 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Thanks for all the comments.  I still believe that the problem has something to do with my unique, cool climate.  For instance, I have purchased Sadleria cyathoides twice,  from two vendors who claim all their ferns throw a reddish flush to the new frond.  My experience was zip, nada, negatory, zilch ! 

I may ask Phil to notify me when he has a really good, strong colored one,  and then just drive down to take delivery.         It is still a beautiful palm with those wide, leathery leaflets. 

 

I was going to say, for the sake of science... Let's get you a confirmed flamer and see if it stops throwing once it arrives in your garden. I have a macrocarpa that's never thrown red; 5g size and a hookeri in a 1g that has already shown strong red fronds. 

[Harry’s Palms]

Yay! It opened yesterday . It's cloudy , so it doesn't show as well as usual. Harry

[Rivera]

On 12/18/2023 at 6:23 PM, Darold Petty said:

Thanks for all the comments.  I still believe that the problem has something to do with my unique, cool climate.  For instance, I have purchased Sadleria cyathoides twice,  from two vendors who claim all their ferns throw a reddish flush to the new frond.  My experience was zip, nada, negatory, zilch ! 

I may ask Phil to notify me when he has a really good, strong colored one,  and then just drive down to take delivery.         It is still a beautiful palm with those wide, leathery leaflets. 

 

I have to wonder the same, Darold. Mine is much too young.

Blechnum brasiliense is the most common plant I can think of around here that shows reddish growth on new fronds. I've seen it bronze-ish at the local garden center, but of course many of these plants are grown elsewhere in the state. 

Do any of your Howea show red?

[Darold Petty]

I have two Howea forsteriana palms showing the new red flush.  However, they  tend to grow out of this characteristic and revert to green as they grow larger.  They came to me as a gift, and were called "red kentia", in 2010.   Supposedly the source was someone called Clark Reidel.  These palms seem genetically superior to a generic Howea.   They have very wide leaflets and a faster growth rate.  I have never found a contact for this person, as I would wish to propagate more  of this clone.

I do have the Blechnum, and it is reliable for the red flush.

[PlantMorePalms]

Those forsterianas with the super wide leaflets are really attractive. 

https://palmpedia.net/wiki/Nursery_and_Garden_of_Clark_Reidel

Based on the Palmpedia page I wonder if some of the San Diego area people here know him?

[Darold Petty]

Yes,  can anyone reading this thread provide contact info for Clark Reidel ??

Here is an image of the 'red kentia'.

 

[happypalms]

4 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Yes,  can anyone reading this thread provide contact info for Clark Reidel ??

Here is an image of the 'red kentia'.

 

Very nice looks almost like a lacospadix Australis 

[BS Man about Palms]

On 12/18/2023 at 5:38 PM, DoomsDave said:

Whoa Darold that IS odd. I’ve never had a hookeri with a green new leaf, though young plants aren’t as red as the adults get. Those were nice big plants too. 
 

I’ve grown hundreds by now at Chateau Chambeyronia.

I'm with Dave, I've NEVER seen a hookeri with green new leaf. I DO know the red is highly dependent on humidity. It's a bit of why I think most of the houailouensis in Florida show reddish new leaves versus much of California has a bluish new leaf.

[TylerT]

Sadly, I’ve found out the hard way that the green leaf hookeri do indeed exist.  

Based on my knowledge from reading posts here on this forum I bought a 5G hookeri from a nursery in riverside about 6 months ago without seeing a red leaf since I thought it extremely rare for hookeri to not flush new red leafs…  

Oh well, live and learn.  My thinking is like Darold’s now… I will only buy Hookeri or macrocarpa that are showing the red leaf in the future.

Note, I live in south Orange County, CA about 3 miles from the coast so I don’t think weather/climate has anything to do with the green leafs… just bad luck.  My other Chambeyronia’s (2 macrocarpa, 1 hookeri, 1 houailou) all sport the new red leafs but they all had the red visible when I bought them.

 

 

[DoomsDave]

12 hours ago, BS Man about Palms said:

I'm with Dave, I've NEVER seen a hookeri with green new leaf. I DO know the red is highly dependent on humidity. It's a bit of why I think most of the houailouensis in Florida show reddish new leaves versus much of California has a bluish new leaf.

Hmm. Interesting thought about Houailou; mine both have nice and reddish new leaves. Maybe I have a humid microclimate in my jungle?

[BS Man about Palms]

17 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

Hmm. Interesting thought about Houailou; mine both have nice and reddish new leaves. Maybe I have a humid microclimate in my jungle?

I'm trying to remember if you are the first I've heard of a red leaf in Cal. or not. Which make me curious on mine, but as mine is 3' from the street, maybe that has an affect?

 

[DoomsDave]

17 hours ago, TylerT said:

Sadly, I’ve found out the hard way that the green leaf hookeri do indeed exist.  

Based on my knowledge from reading posts here on this forum I bought a 5G hookeri from a nursery in riverside about 6 months ago without seeing a red leaf since I thought it extremely rare for hookeri to not flush new red leafs…  

Oh well, live and learn.  My thinking is like Darold’s now… I will only buy Hookeri or macrocarpa that are showing the red leaf in the future.

Note, I live in south Orange County, CA about 3 miles from the coast so I don’t think weather/climate has anything to do with the green leafs… just bad luck.  My other Chambeyronia’s (2 macrocarpa, 1 hookeri, 1 houailou) all sport the new red leafs but they all had the red visible when I bought them.

 

 

Welcome aboard our merry ship!

How about a picture of your greenie new leaf hookeri?

[peachy]

On 12/19/2023 at 3:54 AM, Darold Petty said:

I had a 5 -gallon Chambeyronia macrocarpa, and then a 5-gallon C. 'hookeri',  solid green both times.  I will never purchase another one  unless it is showing the red leaf at that time. 

I wonder if there is some explanation about this failure, 

 perhaps my microclimate is too cool and humid ? Did I provide an insufficient light level ? Do they start green and then "grow into" the red flush ?

Your comments,  please, and thank you ! 

 

38 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

Welcome aboard our merry ship!

How about a picture of your greenie new leaf hookeri?

My Ch macrocarpa always had amazing red new leaves until an alleged 'gardener' pruned it with a chainsaw. (insert expletives here)  I bought another and a hookeri as well. Both had green new leaves. I tried a couple more times buying from different places but always the same result.  Fortunately for me I discovered Calyptrocalyx,  always a reliable display and a lovely deep red. They handle my cold nights far better than Chambeyronia too.

Peachy.

[Darold Petty]

TylerT,   Welcome to Palmtalk, and thanks for your comment !  

[DoomsDave]

1 hour ago, peachy said:

 

My Ch macrocarpa always had amazing red new leaves until an alleged 'gardener' pruned it with a chainsaw. (insert expletives here)  I bought another and a hookeri as well. Both had green new leaves. I tried a couple more times buying from different places but always the same result.  Fortunately for me I discovered Calyptrocalyx,  always a reliable display and a lovely deep red. They handle my cold nights far better than Chambeyronia too.

Peachy.

Expletives screamed!

[happypalms]

7 hours ago, peachy said:

 

My Ch macrocarpa always had amazing red new leaves until an alleged 'gardener' pruned it with a chainsaw. (insert expletives here)  I bought another and a hookeri as well. Both had green new leaves. I tried a couple more times buying from different places but always the same result.  Fortunately for me I discovered Calyptrocalyx,  always a reliable display and a lovely deep red. They handle my cold nights far better than Chambeyronia too.

Peachy.

Hi peachy what variety of calyptrocalyx are you referring too thats cold hardy thanks Richard 

[TylerT]

15 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Welcome aboard our merry ship!

How about a picture of your greenie new leaf hookeri?

Thanks Dave!  I’ve been reading this forum for over a year so I feel I already know many of you.

Here is a pic from today of my greenie hookeri.  I never did take a picture as the green leaf was emerging since there was not much to look at… I’ll do so on the next one.

[TylerT]

14 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

TylerT,   Welcome to Palmtalk, and thanks for your comment !  

Thanks Darold!  I appreciate everyone that has been posting their palm knowledge here.  Like I mentioned to Dave, I feel I know you already as I’ve been following Palmtalk for a while absorbing knowledge from all you gurus as I attempt to start my own fledgling palm garden.

[Darold Petty]

Please visit if you are in the Bay Area.   

[DoomsDave]

1 hour ago, TylerT said:

Thanks Darold!  I appreciate everyone that has been posting their palm knowledge here.  Like I mentioned to Dave, I feel I know you already as I’ve been following Palmtalk for a while absorbing knowledge from all you gurus as I attempt to start my own fledgling palm garden.

Please visit my Chateau Chambeyronia up in La Habra if you like. I’ve got 20 plus trunking specimens in the ground.

[TylerT]

3 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Please visit if you are in the Bay Area.   

 

1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

Please visit my Chateau Chambeyronia up in La Habra if you like. I’ve got 20 plus trunking specimens in the ground.

Thanks for the gracious invitations.  I would love to visit both your gardens.  Dave is less than an hour away from me so I should be able to do that sooner rather than later.  And next time I am in the Bay Area I’ll be sure to swing by if you are available, Darold.

[Darold Petty]

I am retired,... no job, no kids, no mortgage, no debt, no worries,... so Yes, I have an open schedule !   

[peachy]

14 hours ago, happypalms said:

Hi peachy what variety of calyptrocalyx are you referring too thats cold hardy thanks Richard 

I only have 2 here at the new house, the ever reliable Hollrungii and the one in photo was not labelled when I bought it but I had one the same previously.  All of the highland species did very well for me,  so always check the origins of any Calyptrocalyx species.  C. mara was the only one that gave me trouble. Elegans is another tough one too.

 

Peachy

 

[BS Man about Palms]

11 hours ago, TylerT said:

Thanks Dave!  I’ve been reading this forum for over a year so I feel I already know many of you.

Here is a pic from today of my greenie hookeri.  I never did take a picture as the green leaf was emerging since there was not much to look at… I’ll do so on the next one.

Just my .02 here, but that is a LOT of green on the trunk of that hookeri. I  would venture a guess that it was most likely mislabeled.  I see that happen more than I  would like to see.  The midribs also tend to be dark, even after the leaf turns green.

A good true hookeri wil have that pale yellow trunk... everywhere. 

[happypalms]

10 hours ago, peachy said:

I only have 2 here at the new house, the ever reliable Hollrungii and the one in photo was not labelled when I bought it but I had one the same previously.  All of the highland species did very well for me,  so always check the origins of any Calyptrocalyx species.  C. mara was the only one that gave me trouble. Elegans is another tough one too.

 

Peachy

 

Thanks peachy I have both those varieties hollrungii and elegans most of the calyptrocalyx are temperamental in the cold in my area 

Richard 

[peachy]

1 hour ago, happypalms said:

Thanks peachy I have both those varieties hollrungii and elegans most of the calyptrocalyx are temperamental in the cold in my area 

Richard 

This winter just gone was longer than usual and the Veitchias, Hyophorbes, Foxtail and a couple of the Chamaedoreas had cold damage eventually but the Calyptrocalyx, as usual,  didn't have a spot on them.  I can't remember the plants right now that you have (I saw photos) that I can't keep here.  We're getting bad storms here too, poor plants are getting really knocked about.  A big frangipani in an urn blew over and I have done my back in trying to get it upright. A bed ridden christmas this year.

Peachy

[happypalms]

8 hours ago, peachy said:

This winter just gone was longer than usual and the Veitchias, Hyophorbes, Foxtail and a couple of the Chamaedoreas had cold damage eventually but the Calyptrocalyx, as usual,  didn't have a spot on them.  I can't remember the plants right now that you have (I saw photos) that I can't keep here.  We're getting bad storms here too, poor plants are getting really knocked about.  A big frangipani in an urn blew over and I have done my back in trying to get it upright. A bed ridden christmas this year.

Peachy

Hi peachy yes the cold weather the curse of the palm grower it deflates many a grower to crying the cold killing such rare and beautiful exotic plants my friend has given me two huge plants in containers that I could only lift with my tractor to plant so the older we get so do our plants in size and we slowly realise our backs can’t lift them anymore have a good Xmas season peachy 

Richard 

[happypalms]

On 12/24/2023 at 1:35 PM, DoomsDave said:

Expletives screamed!

I bet if it suckers peachy would keep that Chambeyronia! 

[Darold Petty]

Here is my update for this older thread.  I purchased a 15 gallon C. hookeri, from a seed batch with very dark color.  I planted it in a better location than my previous attempts.  The palm took 21 months to grow and open a frond, which was plain green.

Meanwhile, seedlings from Floribunda, grown in my greenhouse,  throw a red frond every time, and the color gets darker each frond.

Therefore, I have concluded that it is just too cold in my garden, and that I am finished with this palm.