Caryota Gigas Advice

[D. Morrowii]

I’ve had this GF since October of 2021 and planted it out in September of 2022 so its been in the ground about 15 months. I had one brief bout with some sort of crown fungus not long after I planted it but the usual treatments quickly took care of that. Now about a month ago I noticed some dark brown areas on some of the leaflets. At first they were only on the newest frond and only on the leaflets out at the very tip. The necrosis extended from the stem to the leaflet though which I didn’t like. I poured some Peroxide into the crown and a little on the base but it did not foam up at all. Last week I mixed up some Banrot and drenched the soil and this week it looks like its spreading to the other fronds although very slowly. My thought is that the soil might have gotten too soggy since one of the drip lines did blow off and I didn’t notice it for a few days. Since last week its only been watered once since the drenching and I temporarily removed the drip line before I did the Banrot treatment. Another thing of note is that it is planted about 6 feet away from the edge of a brackish water canal and the ground water is probably 4 feet down  from the level the palm is planted at. Anybody have any other ideas what it could be or what else I should try? 

[kinzyjr]

@D. Morrowii Not 100% sure, but I have seen stuff like this happen on my property.  Not much chance of saltwater hitting my lot unless most of Florida is under water.  My guess is some kind of rot came back into the crown or there are issues in the root zone.  What it could be, I'm not entirely sure.

[D. Morrowii]

2 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

@D. Morrowii Not 100% sure, but I have seen stuff like this happen on my property.  Not much chance of saltwater hitting my lot unless most of Florida is under water.  My guess is some kind of rot came back into the crown or there are issues in the root zone.  What it could be, I'm not entirely sure.

Thanks @kinzyjr I’m pretty sure the problem is in the root zone. Just guessing from the way its spreading though. Maybe I should spray some 3% HP to check the crown and leaf base areas again. I’m wondering how long it takes a systemic like Banrot to start working and If I should try dome kind of alternative treatment? 

[kinzyjr]

27 minutes ago, D. Morrowii said:

Thanks @kinzyjr I’m pretty sure the problem is in the root zone. Just guessing from the way its spreading though. Maybe I should spray some 3% HP to check the crown and leaf base areas again. I’m wondering how long it takes a systemic like Banrot to start working and If I should try dome kind of alternative treatment? 

It doesn't hurt to give it another dose of peroxide or fungicide.  @Merlyn can give you more insight into the length of time for Banrot to work than I can.  Something a bit more intrusive you can try is putting it back in a pot to see if it recovers.  If it does, you know it was something in the ground.  There are palms that grow happily here in pots that will decline the minute I put them in the ground.  One of the more unexplainable ones is a Ravenea rivularis (Majesty Palm).  There is a 40-footer up the road from me, but I'm 0-3 thus far.

[Merlyn]

@kinzyjr yeah I am 0-4 on Majesty palms too.  They did okay in full shade, but basically sat there and slowly declined anywhere else or when I cut down the oak canopy.  But there's an awesome looking one the next neighborhood over.  It's probably been in the ground for 30 years.

@D. Morrowii back on topic, I assume it hasn't been cold enough there to be anything cold or frost related, right?  I hit 38F here 2 weeks ago, with just a hint of frost on the tops of the grass.  With cold damage it started from the tips of the leaves towards the base...which is the opposite of your photo.  So I'd think it's gotta be some kind of rachis blight or root rot.  Hitting saltwater could be an issue, as these are high mountain palms and might not do well with salt?  That's only a guess.  Overwatering could be contributing, the normal symptoms are drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color.  But that is also usually dying from the edge of the leaves towards the rachis. 

My best guess is a rachis blight, which may or may not be helped with Banrot.  UFL doesn't have a lot to say about curing it.  I think if you clipped off the end of one of the dead fronds and looked at under a microscope (or jeweler's loupe) you'd see the rachis/petiole is probably dead.  You could also try any aluminum tris, like Aliette or Fosetyl-Al.  Those are broad spectrum and good against Pythium and Phytophthora root rot.  They *might* work on rachis blights.  https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP145

I tried repotting a struggling Gigas about that size, which just never bounced back from the last ~28F cold front.  It immediately died. 

[D. Morrowii]

@Merlyn that is correct no cold to speak of here yet, we barely made it down to 49/50F a week or two ago. I think you are guessing right though. The description for rachis blight in the UF publication sounds pretty similar what I’m seeing here. The pictures only show palmate fronds and only half of the petiole seems to be affected but the structure of Caryota is so different that the damage could probably present differently. I didn't see anything in the write up about what outcomes to expect but I’ll keep trying to minimize it for now. I’ll go out there today and trim off whatever I can and start applying Daconil, copper and HP to try and prevent it from spreading at least. Thanks a bunch for chiming in. 

[redant]

Not directly based on the issues but these guys thrive on TONS  of organic material, horse or cow manure, fish emulsion, ect. I'm sure with more organics around it will turn into a beast. Personally as much as I love these palms I'd never plant one in a small yard, when they come down in a hurricane they come down hard, the trucks as super heavy and hard as hell.

[D. Morrowii]

3 hours ago, redant said:

Not directly based on the issues but these guys thrive on TONS  of organic material, horse or cow manure, fish emulsion, ect. I'm sure with more organics around it will turn into a beast. Personally as much as I love these palms I'd never plant one in a small yard, when they come down in a hurricane they come down hard, the trucks as super heavy and hard as hell.

Well good to know anyway in case this guy makes it. 
As far as a big notoriously tippy monocarpic house wrecker goes, point understood. I did try to plan ahead with the location and have a strategy in the event this thing makes it to 20-25 feet. They just so impressive and have such a unique look I decided I would take the risk. 

[redant]

18 hours ago, D. Morrowii said:

Well good to know anyway in case this guy makes it. 
As far as a big notoriously tippy monocarpic house wrecker goes, point understood. I did try to plan ahead with the location and have a strategy in the event this thing makes it to 20-25 feet. They just so impressive and have such a unique look I decided I would take the risk. 

they are spectacular palms, here is mine. It didn't grow at all until I started dumping tons of horse poo at the base.

[D. Morrowii]

Its a beauty @redant! How long did it take to reach that size?

[redant]

On 12/11/2023 at 11:32 AM, D. Morrowii said:

Its a beauty @redant! How long did it take to reach that size?

That's about 12 years old. 2 years it did nothing at all until I started dumping manure around it, then it took off.

[D. Morrowii]

Update- this little guy has gone from bad to worse. I’ve been applying HP, Daconil and copper a couple/three days apart and the thing just keeps spiraling slowly downward. The spear wont pull yet and I’ve had no spear movement in 2 or 3 weeks.  Unlike before I get lots of foam after drenching with hydrogen peroxide. The fungus appears to be behind every leaf sheath as well as around the new spear. 

[kinzyjr]

@D. Morrowii

Unfortunately, this one looks like it's DOA.  Probably best to remove it and keep the remains away from anything else.

[Merlyn]

I'd agree, it looks like the spear is D-E-D and there's not much else green around.  Pay attention to the roots when you dig it out.  Mine that died in a similar manner ended up with almost no white roots.  The soil immediately under it was pretty moist...not gloppy or mucky but not dry either.  I suspect mine had some root rot.  I planted my other one in a somewhat dry area with limited drippers, hopefully it'll be healthy.  Let us know if you can figure out what killed yours.  I have two small seedlings from Floribunda, and I REALLY want to get one to survive! 

[D. Morrowii]

Ugh. Thats what I figured thanks guys.