How bad of an idea to plant in-ground in winter?

[Keys6505]

I just got these 1 gal Serenoa Repens and 10gal Copernicia Alba in the mail.  They were removed from their pot and bagged for shipping.  Am I better off potting them up until early spring (which here in Houston is about 3 months away) and then planting in ground?  Or would it be safer going straight into the ground now and protecting if we get any nasty weather?  I'm assuming the Serenoa would probably be fine going in now, but I want to baby the Alba.  I don't know if potting now and then re-planting again in 3 months would be too much stress after just going through the mail for the last few days.

[Las Palmas Norte]

Nothing would stop me from planting those in League City.

[Xenon]

Straight into the ground. I've planted things in January no problemo. Repotting would add stress both due to root handling and lower/less stable soil temperature in a pot. 

[Paradise Found]

They are totally hardy for you so go for it you do have some heat in winter.  For the less hardy palm have a blanket ready just in case.  But I think you’ll be fine.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Paradise Found

[Swolte]

Agreed w the above. For me, just to be safe, I generally do protect new/young palms during the first subzero events, even if they 'should' be able to handle much lower on paper.  Transplant shock is real, especially if this palm was shipped from a warmer region or grown indoors before. In your area, it probably won't kill a palm but it may give it a better start.

~ S

[WSimpson]

I think you could plant them out . I would have a good source for  leaves so you could cover the whole plant with leaves and then cover   the leaves with a blanket  to keep them from blowing away . Unless you had a 2018 type winter you should be OK .

I just remembered that my bad winter was 2018 and Texas had a bad winter a couple winters ago . 

Will

Edited December 2, 2023 by Will Simpson

[MarcusH]

I've planted a Filifera in late October.  Two months later it went through a severe freeze with minimal protection.  No problem I would say.  

[scarecrow]

I'd be more worried about the Copernicia than the Serenoa. I protect my newly planted marginals during the worst of the first winter.

[SeanK]

After looking up where you live, I'll concur with @scarecrow. One caveat with Serenoa; it doesn't like clay soils or wet feet in the winter. It is found growing in sandy soils. If yours isn't, you may want to plant on a berm.

[Keys6505]

Well, the response was pretty unanimous so I planted these out today.  Alba on the left (letting it settle a little before I re-mulch) and the Serenoa is the small one on the lower right.  They're joining my Arenga Englerii that's has almost completely grown out of the burnt foliage from last winter and the Chinensis is on the right.  Off topic: the Englerii as of late seems to be leaning much more outward than it ever has, not really sure why.  Englerii and Chinensis are both 15° Palmageddon survivors.

The Alba took up residence in the vacancy created by my Acoelorrhaphe Wrightii, may he rest in peace.  He was also a Palmageddon survivor, but he was also a little too stabby and originally planted way to close to my pool patio.  I made the poor decision of relocating him last fall.  The roots were pretty intense and, again, he was really close to the patio so the excavation was kind of a hack job.  Then it hit 17° about 3 months later and that was that.  I gave him all summer to regroup, but every spear pulled one by one.  The last green spear is visible in the pic and still tight but it hasn't moved in 14 months so I'm calling it.

I appreciate the input from everyone!

[Palmfarmer]

Beatiful hope they make it. Where were they grown? 

Personally I have really bad experience planting in winter here when the palms come shipped in from warmer areas of Mexico. I would not even try a Trachycarpus straight from a warmer climate in winter. 

Despite being way above the minimum temprature for the species, they have still died. I managed to kill a Bismarckia, Butia Odorata ( contributing factor was overwatering.) Parajubaea Torallyi and a king Alexander. 

I was quick to replace them all except the Parajubaea torallyi since I could not find a new seller, but recently I was able to order a 30fm Torallyi for 20 usd with shipping and 20 usd for a regular Jubaea too.  

[ChicagoPalma]

Transplant shock is a big factor, especially planting palms and tropicals too late in the season. I planted my palm this year a bit too late, more like mid trachy season, but thankfully mine came from North Carolina grown outdoors, I even got a picture of the palm sitting in the snow from the seller!

[Harry’s Palms]

I usually wait for Spring here in Southern California . We rarely get frost where I am on a hill facing South , but I lust don't take any chances. I no longer buy plants from greenhouses , I like them already hardened off. I just recently acquired a few Wodyetia from a local guy in 5 gal. and I placed them(still in containers) in between my more mature palms for the winter. They are protected from the wind and hopefully will survive the winter.  Harry

[RFun]

On 12/1/2023 at 8:06 PM, Xenon said:

Straight into the ground. I've planted things in January no problemo. Repotting would add stress both due to root handling and lower/less stable soil temperature in a pot. 

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.  He's in the Houston area like you are.  Planting in the Winter isn't a big deal there.  Plenty of leeway.

[necturus]

Where'd you get the Copernicia?

The Serenoa should be fine. Strangely, I lost my white one in Palmaggedon here in Houston.

[Keys6505]

1 hour ago, necturus said:

Where'd you get the Copernicia?

eBay as recommended by @Merlyn when I was hunting for one in FL.  $70 shipped and arrived perfect.  Still one left on there.  Seller is a member here but not active @NATEtures Domain

[Keys6505]

Anyone think I should be concerned about the Alba drying out after less than a week?  Spears still look ok.  Hoping it's just shipping stress but still a little worried.  Lowest it's seen so far is 44° and no frost.  When I unpacked it originally it looked like it was grown in 100% bark so I shook out as much as I could and watered in soil as I backfilled to try to make sure I didn't leave any air gaps.  I've watered heavy twice since planting but ground is still pretty wet.

[Dwarf Fan]

12 minutes ago, Keys6505 said:

Anyone think I should be concerned about the Alba drying out after less than a week?  Spears still look ok.  Hoping it's just shipping stress but still a little worried.  Lowest it's seen so far is 44° and no frost.  When I unpacked it originally it looked like it was grown in 100% bark so I shook out as much as I could and watered in soil as I backfilled to try to make sure I didn't leave any air gaps.  I've watered heavy twice since planting but ground is still pretty wet.

 

 

Did it come from a field grown nursery or a greenhouse?

If it came from a greenhouse that might be the issue.

[Keys6505]

1 hour ago, Dwarf Fan said:

Did it come from a field grown nursery or a greenhouse?

If it came from a greenhouse that might be the issue.

I didn't ask to be honest, but the listing photos were taken outside and the plant had imperfections that I'd associate with outdoor grown.  I've had palms burn from not properly acclimating before, but these leaves seem to be dessicating like the roots were damaged, which I don't believe these were.  Unless maybe they dried out too much during shipping which would suck.

[Dwarf Fan]

The damage does look more like cold damage than sun damage.

I had a a known proven cold Hardy Palm that I know can take 20F look a bit haggard and a few non palms take damage when we dropped from like 70F to 40F over night. Maybe it is just a big swing in temp that was a bit too much, just a guess. 

[Xenon]

Looks like standard transplant shock and root damage, will probably lose most of the leaves except for the center 2 or 3. I wouldn't mess with the roots at all, palm roots often die if the tips are damaged. No need to panic as long as the spear doesn't pull and continues to push (even if very slowly). It's not cold damage. 

You have it mounded pretty high up too, not ideal imo (C. alba can handle and even prefers wet feet). You need to keep the zone at the base where new roots form moist, can be deceptively dry due to mounding even if the surrounding soil is moist. 

Damage from big temperature swings is almost always due to a sudden drop in humidity associated with a cold front leading to dessication (especially on new growth of woody plants), not cold itself. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Xenon

[Keys6505]

Well that was fun for a month and a half

[Xenon]

56 minutes ago, Keys6505 said:

Well that was fun for a month and a half

 

Time for attempt #2. I'd plant it at grade or just slightly below grade, like an 1/2" below the native soil (not the wood chips). With woody stuff the advice is often to mound/expose the root flare but with palms you want the lower base to have good contact with soil 'cause that's where all new roots form. 

Edited January 26, 2024 by Xenon

[Meangreen94z]

1 hour ago, Keys6505 said:

Well that was fun for a month and a half

That stinks. I wrapped up the two in Pearland with heat cables and tarps. I haven’t made it back to see in person but it sounds like they cruised through. I wouldn’t give up, just plant in a better month. Contact Nate and tell him what happened. He will probably cut you a break on a second alba.

[SeanK]

Better to plant when soil temps are rising.

[Leelanau Palms]

7 hours ago, Keys6505 said:

Well that was fun for a month and a half

Sorry for your loss. Hope you fight back with a replacement (....in March?)!

[Jimhardy]

Do you know what soil temps were?  I got some bareroot plants in the mail (first 2 Trachys)

when I first started....I thought it would be good to leave them on the porch so they could

gain some "cold hardiness".... FAIL!!   Cold soil in the pots never allowed roots to get going

and 2 of 3 died.....the one planted in the ground made it luckily but I didn't water it either....this

was in Nov in Iowa.

 

I would imagine soil temps need to be well over 60F for plants to really get their roots going.