So far so good

[DTS]

49 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

I give those away when my clump of basjoo gets too large. Looks good.

Sadly that one died, i easily pulled it up because it wasn’t established at all 😢

[Las Palmas Norte]

On 3/13/2025 at 10:21 AM, DTS said:

Sadly that one died, i easily pulled it up because it wasn’t established at all 😢

I expect you'll have better luck with the new one.

[ChicagoPalma]

On 3/13/2025 at 11:31 AM, Las Palmas Norte said:

I give those away when my clump of basjoo gets too large. Looks good.

Send me one my way lol. But in all seriousness, thats a very nice sized basjoo. I’m hoping my experiment of a banana survived, basjoo x xihuanshangisaesis.

[Leelanau Palms]

On 3/10/2025 at 5:38 AM, Leelanau Palms said:

April 2024 planting: 

November 2024 before covering: 

November after covering: 

I'm watching the weather for the big spring reveal. Stay tuned.

 

I uncovered these a few days ago.

From left to right, here our the palms now....

From the far left is a needle purchased from Mail Order Natives and planted spring 2025: (quite a bit of frond damage)

Middle palm is from Northeast Ohio palms (it looks surprisingly good): 

Far right palm is from southern supplier (can't remember which one) and was in my house for one winter before being planted (looks pretty beat up).I found 2 (dry?) rotted blooms on this one when I uncovered it:

So overall, lots of frond damage after being mulched and covered in our average to cold winter with a minimum temp  ~ -1F and 44 extra inches of snow. I expect lots of frond loss. Pups/offsets look pretty good. Spears look pretty good, but will be pulling on them as it warms up.

[DTS]

2 hours ago, Leelanau Palms said:

I uncovered these a few days ago.

From left to right, here our the palms now....

From the far left is a needle purchased from Mail Order Natives and planted spring 2025: (quite a bit of frond damage)

Middle palm is from Northeast Ohio palms (it looks surprisingly good): 

Far right palm is from southern supplier (can't remember which one) and was in my house for one winter before being planted (looks pretty beat up).I found 2 (dry?) rotted blooms on this one when I uncovered it:

So overall, lots of frond damage after being mulched and covered in our average to cold winter with a minimum temp  ~ -1F and 44 extra inches of snow. I expect lots of frond loss. Pups/offsets look pretty good. Spears look pretty good, but will be pulling on them as it warms up.

Hopefully when it warms up, they mostly recover from the damage! The Northeast OH Palms one is definitely is more reliable then the ones from warmer places it seems.

[DTS]

Sothe Butia died.. Probably should have gotten a hardier one from northeast ohio palms instead if a florida grown one.

[DTS]

Wonder what I should put here now?

[Las Palmas Norte]

19 minutes ago, DTS said:

Sothe Butia died.. Probably should have gotten a hardier one from northeast ohio palms instead if a florida grown one.

How does that work? Is there a Butia with a different lineage that's hardier? Maybe a Sabal minor 'McCurtain' as a replacement?

 

[DTS]

29 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

How does that work? Is there a Butia with a different lineage that's hardier? Maybe a Sabal minor 'McCurtain' as a replacement?

 

it would be like getting a needle palm that was grown in florida that never seen cold weather. It would be less hardy than mine because of that. Leelanau Palm’s post above kinda shows that lol. A McCurtian is definitely a good suggestion!

[DTS]

I think this is what i’ll replace it with!

 

[DTS]

Some leaves broke when grtting it into the car 😭 but it’s here!

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

23 hours ago, DTS said:

it would be like getting a needle palm that was grown in florida that never seen cold weather. It would be less hardy than mine because of that. ...

Some of what you state has merit, but palms don't increase winter hardiness from being subjected to colder climates. Palms have a genetic threshold at which cell damage occurs. Prolonged or repeated cold exposure combined with climactic conditions regardless of where they're grown, will severely damage or kill them. I think what you might be trying to convey is winter readiness, a situation were a palm gradually is conditioned to it's environment, but still staying within it's range of temperature and environmental surroundings. Text book ratings for winter hardiness are typically stated for mature palms and depend largely on which eco-system they're grown in.

Best of luck on your next palm venture.

[Chester B]

On 4/19/2025 at 11:12 AM, Las Palmas Norte said:

Some of what you state has merit, but palms don't increase winter hardiness from being subjected to colder climates. Palms have a genetic threshold at which cell damage occurs. Prolonged or repeated cold exposure combined with climactic conditions regardless of where they're grown, will severely damage or kill them. I think what you might be trying to convey is winter readiness, a situation were a palm gradually is conditioned to it's environment, but still staying within it's range of temperature and environmental surroundings. Text book ratings for winter hardiness are typically stated for mature palms and depend largely on which eco-system they're grown in.

Best of luck on your next palm venture.

All true. There is short term adaptation and long term adaptation look it up.   

[Las Palmas Norte]

15 hours ago, Chester B said:

All true. There is short term adaptation and long term adaptation look it up.   

Curious. Where can that be found? I'm interested. Generic search a or specific article you can point to?

[Chester B]

11 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Curious. Where can that be found? I'm interested. Generic search a or specific article you can point to?

It’s a very old concept in biology.  Short term adaptation is like I’m more used to hot weather living in Texas than you are and can tolerate it better but we will both die if exposed to temps outside normal human ranges.  My short term adaptation is reversible like if I moved to the Yukon I wouldn’t be able to tolerate the heat like I can after a year of living up there. Long term adaptation is something that happens over generations. 

[Banana Belt]

@Las Palmas Norte @Chester B Interesting discussion on adaptation short and long.  How does evolution fit into this difference between short and long term adaptation?  Some plants like Citrus seem to adapt and evolve at the same time where acclimatization to a new climate will sometimes produce a sport or branch on a citrus tree that is distinctly different from all the others.  For example I have a 45 year old Satsuma Mandarin which when it was younger went through several winters of freezing weather, during this time most of the branches and limbs died except for a couple which suffered much less freeze damage.  These surviving and apparent more cold hardy branches eventually replaced the older limbs and for the last 20 years have never defoliated even during similar freezes in its youth.  This is an observation only and I have no explanation why or what is going on in the tree.

[Las Palmas Norte]

@Banana Belt I was immediately reminded of an Atwood Naval (Atwood early) citrus I had some years ago. It originated from a regular Washington Naval from a bud sport on the property of Robert Atwood in 1935.

Some palms seem to be more adaptable or flexible allowing them to be grown in a wider range of conditions, while others are more specific and have little tolerance for surviving conditions outside of it's required environmental conditions. 

[Banana Belt]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

It originated from a regular Washington Naval from a bud sport on the property of Robert Atwood in 1935.

This has happened so many times to Citrus I can't name them all. The history of Citrus as it followed humans around the world is amazing and crazy too.  It has been said that early citrus probably originated in SE Asia where there were just a few varieties.  Today's varieties found in the stores did not exist several thousand years ago, but this is true with so many plants.  Hybridization of Palms produces many mules but sometimes something fertile altogether different.

[DTS]

Guys, mu local plant greenhouse had this giant buita there for $80! This time I planted this one up front since there’s more room. Crazy how this one was cheaper then the previous one I had gotten 😭

 

Also it’s now my Needle Palm’s 3rd year growing in zone 6!

[DTS]

@Leelanau Palms How are your needles doing?

[Leelanau Palms]

5 hours ago, DTS said:

@Leelanau Palms How are your needles doing?

My rather lazy approach (covered, but no heat) in a normal winter up here resulted in the the 2 southern sourced needles perishing. I cannot rule out yet whether they have viable pups (it's been a cool spring and early summer). The northern sourced needle (Northeast Ohio Palms) appears to have viable pups. I am leaving all three in the ground to see what happens. I may have been able to do the peroxide/copper plus trunk cutting method earlier in the spring, but missed that window by slacking. My current impression is that northern sourced needles with some basic heat (like pipe warming cables) and protection would establish here.

[Las Palmas Norte]

On 6/14/2025 at 2:13 AM, Leelanau Palms said:

My rather lazy approach (covered, but no heat) in a normal winter up here resulted in the the 2 southern sourced needles perishing. I cannot rule out yet whether they have viable pups (it's been a cool spring and early summer). The northern sourced needle (Northeast Ohio Palms) appears to have viable pups. I am leaving all three in the ground to see what happens. I may have been able to do the peroxide/copper plus trunk cutting method earlier in the spring, but missed that window by slacking. My current impression is that northern sourced needles with some basic heat (like pipe warming cables) and protection would establish here.

How's everything going with this winter so far? Hopefully "So far so good" as the title implies.

[DTS]

4 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

How's everything going with this winter so far? Hopefully "So far so good" as the title implies.

I really thought this winter would have been mild-ish until the polar vortex came once again 😂. it wasnt too bad though for being up here as the lowest temperature it gave us was -9°F, but every day has been extremely cold and i cant check the palms just yet cuz of how much snow there is..

[Las Palmas Norte]

1 minute ago, DTS said:

...it wasnt too bad though for being up here as the lowest temperature it gave us was -9°F, ...

Yikes!

[Leelanau Palms]

The update here is that my northern sourced needle palm from Northeast Ohio did indeed survive winter 2024-2025 with only covering. The pups grew during the summer. The main trunk seemed to perish but may have put out a smidge of growth by summers end. I covered it again and will see what our -4F to date cold did to it in a couple of months. I planted 2 Fayetteville washies grown from seed in my front yard (both about 2 feet tall at planting). They flourished. I decided not to try to elaborate protection, so they are RIP. 

[DTS]

I got the chance to peek at the Butia since it was the only one not to be piled with snow, and it looks "fine" so far with a bit of cold damage on some of the fronds more exposed at the top. I'll be more careful with this one to not letnit end up like the other one 😂

[DTS]

Since it's a sweltering 40°F out I might as well remove all the snow and open up the needle and cycad boxes.

Safe to say I feel the cycad will survive it's second winter here even with our -9°F that just happened, it. looks just about how it did last year just with more green. But the Causiarum seedling next to the needle palm might be done for, as somehow water got between the gaps and froze on it for who knows how long sadly, and all the light green on it turned dark. Kinda sucks because it's been there for a couple years now lol.

[Las Palmas Norte]

16 minutes ago, DTS said:

Since it's a sweltering 40°F ...

Enjoy the heat wave!