Wind-Tolerant Palms

[Palm Guy]

Hi all,

Just wondering if you guys know of any "non-popular"  species of palms that have held up nicely in hurricanes or strong winds. I know that Coconuts and Hurricane palms do well here but I'm looking for something more uncommon. I live about 200-300 ft from the ocean and would need something that could hold up to the strong winds we get each winter. Maybe someone can start a poll after hearing some of the candidates.

Thanks,

Mike F

[Scott]

I don't know if this is considered 'common' or not, but there's always the Livistona decipiens . A rather attractive palm.

[Neofolis]

Probably not the sort of thing that you are looking for, but Allagoptera arenaria grows mainly in exposed coastal situations and is very wind tolerant.

[Walter John]

Trachycarpus  - windmill palm ?

[Gileno Machado]

Hi Mike:

Same problem here, especially during the months of August and September.

Most wind tolerant species, so far:

Cocos nucifera

all Veitchias

Bismarckia and Latania

large Sabals

Still under test, performing ok to moderately so far:

Clinostigma samoense

Actinorhytis calapparia

most Syagrus

Bentinckia nicobarica

Polyandrococos caudescens (Allagoptera, I mean)

Satakentia liukiuensis

Washingtonia robusta

Pritchardia pacifica (so-so)

No chance with these:

Ravenea rivularis

Corypha umbraculifera

Royals (poorly)

Pigafetta filaris

Bactris gasipaes, Arecas, Trachycarpus, Cyrtostachys = death

[TikiRick]

I can tell you from our past round of recent hurricanes and tropical storms that these palms rate highly on our list of outstanding, good, poor:

Outstanding:

Kerriodoxia elegans

Satakentia

Hyophorbe sp.

Sabal sp.

Phoenix sp.

Heterospathe sp.

Dictyosperma sp.

Good:

Veitchia sp.

Cocos nucifera

Livistona sp.

Roystonea sp.

Coccothrinax sp.

Poor:

Caryota sp.

Ptychosperma sp.

Wodyetia sp.

Bismarkia sp.

Washingtonia sp.

[fastfeat]

Rick--

Don't forget to include Syagrus, esp. S. romanzoffianum on the "Poor" list...

[Carlo Morici]

All the species from Cuban open savannas evolved with hurricanes: Copernicia spp., Acrocomia aculeata, A. crispa (Gastrococos), Colpothrinax wrightii, Coccothrinax spp.

Carlo

[Dave-Vero]

Queensland coast palms also evolved with cyclones.

John Dowe is working on the wind resistance question.  It looks like leaf morphology matters--Sabal palmetto would be a good example of what does well in wind.

[TikiRick]

Dave,

It is interesting to note that while Sabal palmetto's fare extremely well with hurricanes, Bismarkia's do not. Both with essentially the same palmate leaf and structure, but different evolutionary process and geographical locations.

Something to sit and ponder...things that make you go "hum."

And yes, Ken was correct, any and all Syagrus in my book should be listed as poor when referring to wind tolerance.

[Really full garden]

Mike,

     I too live on the ocean and we get really strong blows in Feb-March which is also at the peak of our dry season.The palms that do the best (show least damage) are Wodyetias,Bottle palms,Lantanias,Acrocromia crispa,Thrinax radiata

Coccothrinax crinata, Pseudophoenix and Bismarckias. The Royals are the worst.They look awful. I like Gileno am trying many more species including Beccariophoenix coastal form,Dypsis madagascariensis lucuba,Dypsis onhilensis,Satakentia,Syagrus amara,various Coccothrinax and Copernicias.One unusual palm that surprised me was Areca catechu.These handle some salt and wind as long as they get shade.

I do not have hurricanes so I am talking about the seasonally strong blows we get (gusts up to around 50mph).These palms survive and exhibit the least amount of damage and recover quickly.

                                                                         Scott

[redant]

"The Royals are the worst"

While royals look poor after a tropical cyclone they are survivors,  they will be there and after the storm.

I have about 50 Wodyetia sp. on my property for the 2004 and 2005 storms, I didn't lose a single one. Wish I could say the same for my coconuts.

Sabal sp. and Phoenix sp. laughed at the hurricanes, not even a bent frond.

[fastfeat]

(TikiRick @ Oct. 23 2007,12:45)

QUOTE

Dave,

It is interesting to note that while Sabal palmetto's fare extremely well with hurricanes, Bismarkia's do not. Both with essentially the same palmate leaf and structure, but different evolutionary process and geographical locations.

Something to sit and ponder...things that make you go "hum."

And yes, Ken was correct, any and all Syagrus in my book should be listed as poor when referring to wind tolerance.

I agree with you Rick about Bismarckia. While they may take regular coastal breezes, they do seem to lose their heads, or at least break the growing point, during hurricanes. Miami Springs lost many after Wilma; almost all that had some damage to the emerging fronds eventually died.

Are Ptychospermas really that bad in hurricanes? While many defoliated after Wilma, I didn't see very many down. Maybe it's just that they're so plentiful I didn't notice losses in the general population...

[Kathryn]

(Wal @ Oct. 23 2007,02:44)

QUOTE

Trachycarpus  - windmill palm ?

Of the many common palms in the New Orleans area, Trachycarpus fortunei faired the worst during Katrina. No immediate damage was seen, but a small percent of them have slowly declined and died.

Most other common species of palms that kept their crowns above water did just fine. These include Butia capitata, Sabal palmetto, several Phoenix species, Syagrus romanzoffiana, Livistona chinensis, Chamaerops humilis, Washingtonia robusta, Brahea armata. Many of the Caryota palms (solitary species, not sure but maybe urens) at the Audubon Zoo were tilted or uprooted, but put back in place and survived.

[Dave-Vero]

Bismarckias did fare poorly in the 2004 hurricanes.  Their leaves, including the petioles, are stiffer than the flexy Sabal leaves.  Both are costapalmate.

[Eric in Orlando]

Around here, after the 2004 hurricanes, Washingtonia robusta was probably the worst. Shorter specimens fared alright but as they got taller, these tended to blow over and real tall ones snapped. Newer planted Syagrus romanzoffiana also tended to blow over. My mom had 2 30ft ones blow over into here pool screen enclosure.

Phoenix roebelenii was supposed to be one of the best that went through Floridas 2004 and 2005 storms.

[Palm Guy]

Thanks for all your input guys. I wonder if Chambeyronia's and Dypsis Leptocheilos might hold up in a salty-windy environment? I take it they wouldn't fair too well but I might as well try. Maybe if I ween them into the environment they might evolve into a salt/wind tolerant species.

Thanks,

Mike

[Okie]

I would rate Veitchia sp. as HIGH.  I have them planted where they get wind from Nov/Dec to March and they do great.

I would rate Bismarckia as poor.  They do not do well in hurricane winds.

[fastfeat]

(Okie @ Oct. 26 2007,20:15)

QUOTE

I would rate Bismarckia as poor.  They do not do well in hurricane winds.

I think your weevils would disagree

[epicure3]

(Gileno Machado @ Oct. 23 2007,09:33)

QUOTE

Hi Mike:

Same problem here, especially during the months of August and September.

Most wind tolerant species, so far:

Cocos nucifera

all Veitchias

Bismarckia and Latania

large Sabals

Still under test, performing ok to moderately so far:

Clinostigma samoense

Actinorhytis calapparia

most Syagrus

Bentinckia nicobarica

Polyandrococos caudescens (Allagoptera, I mean)

Satakentia liukiuensis

Washingtonia robusta

Pritchardia pacifica (so-so)

No chance with these:

Ravenea rivularis

Corypha umbraculifera

Royals (poorly)

Pigafetta filaris

Bactris gasipaes, Arecas, Trachycarpus, Cyrtostachys = death

I always lose a frond or 2 on my most exposed veitchias in high santa ana winds so I couldn't put that species on my list

[glbower]

The problem with this discussion is people are talking about very two different things -- holding up after a strong wind and surviving a hurricane. My city took a direct hit from Hurricane Charley in 2004 (145 mph steady winds, 175 gusts), and I had a good opportunity to see how palm species react to a Cat. 4 storm.

In general, pinnate species with stiff leaves like Roystonia and Vietchia, for example, had not a leaf left on them, but they were still standing up straight and were very much alive. Their leaves just broke off and blew away, leaving the rest of the tree without any sails to catch the wind.

Pinnate species with flexible leaves tended to blow over or snap at ground level. There was hardly a queen left standing and a lot of CI dates, coconuts and foxtails succumbed. In my opinion, they blew over or had their trunks snapped because  their weight all shifted to the downwind sides as the leaves bent with the wind.

If you're talking about just a strong blow, i.e. 70, 80, 90 mph, then the stiff-leafed varieties won't look as good as the flexible guys because they will lose some leaves.

Surprisingly, palmate species around here all looked like crap after Charley but most made it through alive without getting blown over or snapped. My bizzie looked like it had been bombed but it was as good as new by the following summer.

[ruskinPalms]

I think another confouding factor may be coming into play here to. Winds on the immediate coast are subjected to salt spray too. Also, most winds in FL are fairly humid except during some of the worse cold fronts. Dry winds and salt laden winds will take a toll on Roystonea even thought it probably is one of the best species to plant in hurricane prone areas. If you are right on the beach try pseudophoenix and Hyophorbe, Cocothrinax and Sabals. They should be bullet proof.  Cocos obviously do well right on the beach too. If you are back from the beach a couple blocks, your options go up.

[Really full garden]

Bill,

you are so right about coastal conditions.I think the salt actually does more damage than the wind.Salt spray(even almost invisible mist) accumulates on leaves and causes tissues to breakdown.Sun reacting with the salt can burn.Wind then easily tears these weakened leaves.

I hose down small plants in the early morning.My Rhapis excelsa can survive in a fairly exposed area because of this treatment. This is impossible to do for tall palms.                                        

                                                                                     Scott