Chamaedorea stolonifera

[Kamipalms]

As a follow on from Stone Jag's Chammie lesson ( C.tuerckheimii) heres another of the Genus that doesn't seem all that common. After searching the IPS Archive theres not one mention of this plant.

C.stolonifera hails from low elevation forests of mexico along with the other 4 family members of this subgenus being;

C.ernesti-augustii

C.metallica

C.sartorii

and the newest addition , C.rhizomatosa

Pictured here amoungst C.allenii

C.stolonifera is a colonising plant (spreading with stolons) up to 10m across while only reaching only 1.5m tall.

Experiance with 4 out of 5 plants of this subgenus shows they are very resiliant , coping with cold and wet conditions with ease.

I was very surprised to see the lack of this plant mentioned on the forum.  I wouldn't think that it's all that rare but no one seems to have anything to say.

So what say you?

[Eric in Orlando]

In the sandy soils here, many Chamaedorea are susceptible to nematodes. C. microspadix and C. stolonifera seem to be the most resistant along with C. hooperiana, C. metallica and C. fragans. All the others I have grown die sooner or later from nematodes.

[sebastian]

I got this one,cool little plant how it reproduces.

[Howeadypsis]

Nice colouration on those leaves,look a litle iridescent.

[Jeff Searle]

Hello Jason,

   This is a very nice Chamaedorea,no doubt. I have a few large ones in pots and need to get them planted. They are still un-common to find at our local sales here, again due to the lack of seed available. Somebody needs to make a collecting trip to Mexico.

[Kamipalms]

I had planned to get a couple more photo's this arvo but the weather put a stop to that....may be tomorrow.

Jeff, I'm supprised to hear they are still uncommon or is it a case of old news, everyone has them?

This is the case here in Perth, they don't fetch a high price. Somewhere around US$7.50 a foot.

Shame realy, they make an excelent groundcover  ???  en'mass although they are buggers to pollinate.

hopeful for some pix tomorrow.

Jason.

[ghar41]

I am new to this group.  I am in USDA zone 9B (we often refer to as Sunset zone 14.)  I have had C. stolonifera in the ground for 4 years (frosts each year.) and it is doing well so far.  C. microspadix and C. radicalis both survived our '90 freeze (19F and many areas did not get much above 32F for @72 hours.)  Being shade plants my Chamadoreas have nice cover but...my guess is that Stolonifera is not quite as cold tolerant as the other two....

[Zac in NC]

(Jeff Searle @ Aug. 17 2006,08:36)

QUOTE

Hello Jason,

   This is a very nice Chamaedorea,no doubt. I have a few large ones in pots and need to get them planted. They are still un-common to find at our local sales here, again due to the lack of seed available. Somebody needs to make a collecting trip to Mexico.

I would volunteer, but I never make it to Southern Mexico on my trips. Usually I stay on the Northern Border States, like Tamaulipas and Sonora.  Thanks for the Lesson too Jason.

Zac

[Ken Johnson]

Two things.

I have grown stolons but only male plants. I have never seen a female.

The other is that I have seen two forms. You?

[Jeff Searle]

Jason,

   No, not everone has them, they are not considered rare, but just un-common to find. At our local sales, you might find a vendor or two have one or two plants to sell, but small. Cham. brachypoda is easier to find and around more often.

[Kamipalms]

(Ken Johnson @ Aug. 19 2006,00:55)

QUOTE

Two things.

I have grown stolons but only male plants. I have never seen a female.

The other is that I have seen two forms. You?

Totaly the oppisite here Ken, female plants are more available  and the males are hard to find.

heres another pic,

plus a male coming into flower.

2 forms?....

I have seen a very fine/slender version but I'm yet to confirm that it isn't just growing conditions.

[Kamipalms]

(Jeff Searle @ Aug. 19 2006,00:57)

QUOTE

Jason,

   No, not everone has them, they are not considered rare, but just un-common to find. At our local sales, you might find a vendor or two have one or two plants to sell, but small. Cham. brachypoda is easier to find and around more often.

Brachpoda is another underrated Chammie , I know of one  thriving in a 9b climate where as I and quite a few otheres were under the impression they realy resent cold.

This one pictured below has only shadecloth protection through our wet winter and it lives in a pot.

Jeff,  is the case the same with this spp. as in one sex is harder to get hold of?

Again, the male's dominate here.

Jason.

[Ken Johnson]

I may be wrong as to the sex of the stolonifera .

The brachypodas here are also male.

[Kamipalms]

here you go Ken..

Inflorescence of C.stolonifera

[Zac in NC]

I cannot see the last picture Jason. I tried doing the right click and going to properties, but I was "Unauthorized to view this picture."

Zac

[Kamipalms]

Sorry Zac.

Moved it to a different hosting service , should display for you now.

Jason.

[Joe palma]

Excellent pictures Jason! Thanks for sharing, as I have never quite known the difference in the early stages.

Keep these threads going on the Kamis!

Sounds like you probably don't have seeds of the stolonifera but what about brachypoda? That is very nice as well and I would like to try them.

P.S. - the C. volcanensis seeds I picked have started sprouting already! So you should have good luck w/ the ones I sent you.

Joe

[Zac in NC]

Jason- I can see it now and it is a great shot showing the differences between male and female inflorescences very well.

Zac

[MattyB]

Paul (Pohonkelapa) just gave me a piece of C. stolinifera.  He just cut a stem off and put it in some dirt for a month.  I just repotted it today and it's got 3 new roots starting to make their way down.  Cool little plant.  This is one the wife will love.  Bizmarckia = Bad, Chamaedorea = Good!

[cryptobionic]

Nice pics. I've been lookin' for a stolonifera for years. I always hear so much good hype, but everyone seems to be "freshly out".

[Kamipalms]

(Joe palma @ Aug. 22 2006,04:11)

QUOTE

Excellent pictures Jason! Thanks for sharing, as I have never quite known the difference in the early stages.

Keep these threads going on the Kamis!

Sounds like you probably don't have seeds of the stolonifera but what about brachypoda? That is very nice as well and I would like to try them.

P.S. - the C. volcanensis seeds I picked have started sprouting already! So you should have good luck w/ the ones I sent you.

Joe

hey Joe,

There are seeds forming ( look closely at the first pic in post # 11) but I'm not sure if their going to be viable plus there are people already waiting for them.

However, flowers are looking good this season and hopefuly we can get a good seed set this time round.

If your or anyone else are after seeds you only have to ask....but you may have to wait.  I don't produce a lot of seed ( unless your after a few thousand cataractarum) so meeting demand can take some time....as you know ???

I've had brachypoda for a few years now but only male plants untill I finaly found a female last year. The female flowered last year but 2-3 weeks before the male.  Fingers crossed for this year...

Heres the differance in brachypoda..

They are one of the harder Kami species to ID if your only looking at one sex without the other to compare.

Yes, the volcanensis seeds are under way.

thaks again

Jason.

[PalmsZA]

Jay

I had a little shipment from AVR. He popped in a few seedling C.zamorae (not sure of that spelling). Have you a pic and some tips for these little ones!

Cheers

D

[Kamipalms]

Hey D!

Lucky you,

C.zamorae ( pronounced za-more-ay, or as my wife says "you want za-more-ay? ")

Theres bugger all info on C.zamorae on the net, let alone any pictures.

If you don't have a copy of Hodel's book, imagine C.deckeriana on a narrower stem with large bifid leaves ( like deckeriana) but the lower 1/4  of the leaf is divided into a few(2-4) very fine pinnae.

I know of a few small plants here in OZ which are some where around 4 years old ant their reported to be fast growers once established and put up with a bit of cold too.

Not the case when growing from seed. Seeds germinate verry erraticly.

in the pic below, these seedlings were sown as seeds exactly 13 months ago ...

all plants in this pic are from the same batch of seed and there are still seeds yet to germinate.

A rare Kami these days but one definatly worth having.

Say G'day to AVR for me when you see him next.

Jason.

[PalmsZA]

Hi Jay

I planted them out under a litchi tree.....they were a little unhappy in Pretoria as it has been a cold winter up there. Thanks for that description, sounds like a beaut.

I am going to see AVR at the end of September, I will get a few more species from him when there! Did someone say tuerchheimii???!!! In my dreams.

Cheers

Dennis

[jam99]

Hey D, do you speak Spanish? Even if you don't, you should be able to comprehend most of this:

------

Chamaedorea zamorae Hodel, Principes 34: 173. 1990.

Tallos solitarios, 1–2.5 m y ca. 1–2 cm de diám. Hojas en corona 3–12. Pecíolos más allá de la vaina 10–40 cm, la vaina partida aproximadamente de la mitad hacia la base o levemente más. Láminas foliares simples y bífidas o (más comúnmente) pinnado-compuestas, con el raquis 25–81 cm, si simples de 44.5–83 × 25–41 cm, cuneado-obovadas, incisas distalmente hasta ca. 2/5 de su longitud total, con ca. 15–40 nervios primarios laterales por lado, los márgenes ± oscura a agudamente aserrados distalmente, si pinnadas con 3–9 hojuelas por lado, 24.5–55 × 1.8–9.8 cm (las del medio), débilmente sigmoides. Infls. interfoliares (que a veces llegan a ser infrafoliares), a veces basales; pedúnculos 10–34 cm, erectos. Infls. masculinas espigadas o bifurcadas; raquila(s) 14–27 cm, péndula(s); fls. ca. 3–5 mm, blanco crema a amarillas, los pétalos separados hasta la base, divergentes distalmente a erectos, sin nervios o con una quilla. Infls. femeninas espigadas; raquila 3–18.5 cm, erecta; fls. ca. 2.5–3 mm, amarillas. Frs. maduros ca. 1.1–1.5 × 0.9–1.4 cm, lisos, obpiramidales, densamente empacados, anaranjados a rojo anaranjado.

Bosque muy húmedo, 50–500(–800) m; vert. Pac. S desde R.B. Carara. Fl. ene., jul., nov., dic. ENDÉMICA. (A. Chacón 1082; CR, MO)

Chamaedorea zamorae y C. geonomiformis son las únicas spp. de Chamaedorea en las tierras bajas del Pac. (ca. <1000 m) en CR con infls. de ambos sexos espigadas o bifurcadas. La última sp. no está cercanamente relacionada, y difiere en que es mucho más pequeña, con hojas invariablemente simples con menos (ca. 9–13) nervios primarios laterales, e infls. e infrs. menos apiñadas. Chamaedorea zamorae, con las hojas variadas de simples a pinnadas, pertenece a un grupo de spp. caracterizado por las infls. masculinas con raquilas amentíferas y usualmente flojas, con las fls. densamente agregadas (ver bajo C. tepejilote). Individuos de hojas simples recuerdan a C. deckeriana, de la vert. Carib. (ver clave, copla 9). Plantas con hojas pinnadas son más similares a C. hodelii (con frs. negros) de la vert. Carib., y especialmente con C. crucensis, de elevaciones más altas en la vert. Pac. (ver clave, copla 39), la cual también tiene frs. anaranjados.

El tipo de C. zamorae fue preparado de material cultivado en Hawaii, a partir de semillas supuestamente recolectadas cerca de la Laguna de Arenal, en la vert. Carib. de la Prov. de Guanacaste. Esta derivación debe considerarse sumamente dudosa, en vista de la distribución actualmente conocida de la sp.

-----

Jay, thanks for posting the pic of your cute babies ;-)

Cheers, Jan

[PalmsZA]

Hi Jam

Ja my Spanish is no good.....can you translate???? ha ha

Cheers

D

[Kamipalms]

geeeze...

I'd forgotten all about that paper Jan...

Heres the english version,

Chamaedorea zamorae Hodel, Principes 34: 173, figs. 17--21. 1990 [C. crucensis Hodel].--Stems solitary, 1--2.5 m tall, ca. 1.0--2.0 cm diam. Lvs. in crown 3--12. Petioles beyond sheath 10--40 cm, the sheath split ca. halfway to base or slightly more. Lf.-blades simple and bifid or (more commonly) pinnately compound with rachis 25--81 cm, if simple 44.5--83 X 25--41 cm, cuneate-obovate, incised distally to ca. 2/5 the total length, with ca. 15--40 primary lateral veins per side, the margins ± obscurely to sharply serrate distally, if pinnate with lflts. 3--9 per side, 24.5--55 X 1.8--9.8 cm (medial ones), weakly sigmoid. Infls. interfoliar (often becoming infrafoliar), sometimes basal; peduncle 10--34 cm, erect. Male infls. spicate or forked; rachilla(e) 14--27 cm, pendulous; fls. ca. 3--5 mm long, cream-white to yellow, the petals distinct to base, spreading distally to erect, nerveless or 1--keeled. Female infls. spicate; rachilla 3--18.5 cm, erect; fls. ca. 2.5--3 mm long, yellow. Ripe frts. ca. 1.1--1.5 X 0.9--1.4 cm, smooth, obpyramidal, densely packed, orange to red-orange. Wet forests, 50--500 (--800) m; Pac. slope S from RB Carara. Fl. 1, 7, 11--12 ENDEMIC. [A. Chacón 1082, CR, MO.]

Chamaedorea zamorae and C. geonomiformis are the only Chamaedorea spp. in the Pac. lowlands (< ca. 1000 m) of Costa Rica with spicate or forked infls. of both sexes. The latter sp. is not closely related, and differs in its much smaller, invariably simple lf.-blades with fewer (ca. 9--13) primary lateral veins, and less crowded infls. and infrs. Chamaedorea zamorae, with lf.-blades varying from simple to fully pinnately compound, belongs to a sp.-group characterized by densely aggregated male fls. borne on usually lax, catkin-like rachillae (see under C. tepejilote). Simple-lvd. individuals most resemble the Atl.-slope C. deckeriana (see key, couplet 9). Pinnate-lvd. plants are most similar to the Atl. slope C. hodelii (with black frts.) and, especially, the Pac. slope C. crucensis (see key, couplet 39), of higher elevations, which also has orange frts.

The type of Chamaedorea zamorae was prepared from cult. material, grown in Hawaii from seed allegedly collected near Laguna de Arenal, on the Atl. slope in Prov. Guanacaste. This provenance must be considered highly dubious, in view of the presently known distribution of the species.

[Kamipalms]

I think the seeds ( of the seedlings you have Dennis) came form Napoles CR .

I'm sure AVR and friend here in OZ  recieves seeds from the same sender in CR .

This means the seedlings you and I have came from the same place and no doubt the same batch of seed.

Jason.

[PalmsZA]

Hi Jay

Must be, mine have 3 leaves at this stage. Although I recall him going over to Central/South America 2 years ago or so....maybe he bought them then?

Cheers

D

[MattyB]

I miss Jason. Here's a blast from the past with some neat flower pics.

[PalmGuyWC]

I miss Jason. Here's a blast from the past with some neat flower pics.

Matty,

You had to dig deep to find this old thread. I was going to respond, but first I went to the search feature on PalmTalk and found 4 pages on Chamaedoreas by searching for "stolonifera" If anyone is interested in Chamaedoreas, there are lots of nice pictures and information in those old threads. I miss Jason too, and wish he would restore his old web site on Chamaedoreas. I used to reference it often.

Dick

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Hi Matt

Jason will be back, his new house and new career has had him not being able to spend palm time, the good news is his work path is going great and he has finished his front wall and driveway, This has allowed him to start planting some palms over the last 4 weeks in the front yard.

He has not lost interest just sometimes you have to do what you have to do.His collection is still in his garage and plans are under way for the Chamaedorea garden.

looking forward to some updated pictures

regards

Colin

[PalmatierMeg]

Posting a photo of my C. stolonifera planted in a bare patch underneath the Adonidias Veitchias. Expensive and hard to find little devil but it is spreading slowly and sailed through this wretched winter.

[joe_OC]

GREAT POST! There should be more posts like this one. Great way to learn about real world experience with a palm.

[Tyrone]

I miss Jason. Here's a blast from the past with some neat flower pics.

I too miss Jason's presence here, and I live in the same part of the world as Jason. I haven't seen him in years. There were many old names in this thread we hear little from these days. What a quality thread this was. Palmtalk of yesteryear.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Hi Matt

Jason will be back, his new house and new career has had him not being able to spend palm time, the good news is his work path is going great and he has finished his front wall and driveway, This has allowed him to start planting some palms over the last 4 weeks in the front yard.

He has not lost interest just sometimes you have to do what you have to do.His collection is still in his garage and plans are under way for the Chamaedorea garden.

looking forward to some updated pictures

regards

Colin

Colin, I'm glad he hasn't lost his interest. Last year he was meant to do a Chamie talk at one of our local WA Palm and Cycad Society meetings, but in the end it didn't happen which was dissapointing. I was looking forward to it. Glad to hear his garden is coming along. Would love to see some pics from him on Palmtalk. What's he doing for work now?

Best regards

Tyrone

[Darold Petty]

Here is a real world experience with C. stolonifera in California. I had a beautiful little group of about 5 stems. This species is highly attractive to western pocket gophers (genus Thomomys). One day, I heard a gnawing sound and watched as a gopher chewed the stem below ground. The plant disappeared downward into the earth as I watched,just like in a television cartoon!! In two nights the gopher completely destroyed this group of plants. Always use a wire basket when planting this palm, even though the stolons will overrun the basket perimeter.

[tjwalters]

Here is a real world experience with C. stolonifera in California. I had a beautiful little group of about 5 stems. This species is highly attractive to western pocket gophers (genus Thomomys). One day, I heard a gnawing sound and watched as a gopher chewed the stem below ground. The plant disappeared downward into the earth as I watched,just like in a television cartoon!! In two nights the gopher completely destroyed this group of plants. Always use a wire basket when planting this palm, even though the stolons will overrun the basket perimeter.

Sounds like voles here in the mid-Atlantic. I've watched hosta leaves disappear into the earth in the same cartoon manner. They seem to have a real taste for Trachycarpus and Rhapidophyllum. I've lost many to the buggers. Haven't had much trouble with Sabal, though they did take out one small S. minor 'Louisiana'.

[Kamipalms]

Hi every body!!

Mr Wilson phoned this afternoon and mentioned Matty B had revived an old post of mine so I thought I'd better jump on and have a look see.

Every thing here ( well almost everything) is going pretty well, however I did loose quite a few good Chammies after the move ( irrigation failed and I almost cried for a week...) but you can't change the past

I haven't lost my passion for Chammaedorea , it's just been put on hold while I get my life, new house and career on track.

The new house is coming along pretty well but there's still large amounts of work needed to finish things off. As Colin mentioned, I've just about finished the front yard with retaining, and so forth and managed to finally get a few palms in the ground. Still a lot to be done to finish the front yard before starting the back.

Unfortunately the price of buying a large-ish block of land means there's a lot more to be done along with a lot of $$$ to be thrown at it to get it done. I have plans approved for the 170 M2 "patio" and still drafting the underground water tank ( around 100000 litre - 28000 gal ) with a 60 M2 greenhouse over the top ( there's some more $$$)

I've changed careers again form a residential construction supervisor to a less stressful self employed contractor which has taken a huge load of pressure off my self and family and given me a lot more freedom on a daily basis.

Don't worry too much about the chamaedorea website. I have it all backed up on hard drive , so nothing has been lost. I just need the time to set it up again online.

Any hoo , its almost 1:00 am here and I'd better be off to bed. i'll jump back on again over the next few days if anyone wants to chat.

And one last thing.... Thanks everyone for not forgetting about me.

J.

[Gileno Machado]

Hi every body!!

Mr Wilson phoned this afternoon and mentioned Matty B had revived an old post of mine so I thought I'd better jump on and have a look see.

Every thing here ( well almost everything) is going pretty well, however I did loose quite a few good Chammies after the move ( irrigation failed and I almost cried for a week...) but you can't change the past

I haven't lost my passion for Chammaedorea , it's just been put on hold while I get my life, new house and career on track.

The new house is coming along pretty well but there's still large amounts of work needed to finish things off. As Colin mentioned, I've just about finished the front yard with retaining, and so forth and managed to finally get a few palms in the ground. Still a lot to be done to finish the front yard before starting the back.

Unfortunately the price of buying a large-ish block of land means there's a lot more to be done along with a lot of $$$ to be thrown at it to get it done. I have plans approved for the 170 M2 "patio" and still drafting the underground water tank ( around 100000 litre - 28000 gal ) with a 60 M2 greenhouse over the top ( there's some more $$$)

I've changed careers again form a residential construction supervisor to a less stressful self employed contractor which has taken a huge load of pressure off my self and family and given me a lot more freedom on a daily basis.

Don't worry too much about the chamaedorea website. I have it all backed up on hard drive , so nothing has been lost. I just need the time to set it up again online.

Any hoo , its almost 1:00 am here and I'd better be off to bed. i'll jump back on again over the next few days if anyone wants to chat.

And one last thing.... Thanks everyone for not forgetting about me.

J.

Viva !!

Chamfreak...Ooops...Kamipalms Jay is back to palmtalk...

Great to hear things are going well with the new career/home, mate.

Irrigation failure...hmmmmm...I hope at least the Geonoma baculifera survived in the garage...(mine are all in palm heaven now).

The frontyard has new palms?? I bet they are not queens this time...