New palm ethusiast from north italy

[Nikoskater]

Hi everyone, 

I’m new here and it’s my first post, located in north east of Italy, my usda zone should be 9a/8b.

This summer I’ve bought few palms, here’s the list:

-Washingtonia hybrid (in ground)

-Washingtonia hybrid (in pot)

-Washingtonia hybrid seedling (in pot)

-sabal seedling (not identified)

-phoenix canariensis (in pot)

-cycas revoluta (in pot)

-Areca lutescens (in pot inside home)

-Chamaedorea elegans (in pot inside home)

 

now let’s get started with questions, since I’m seeking for advices to keep them alive!

 

Washingtonia hybrid in the ground, I’ll put some dead leaves around the trunk, cover it and stick some stakes to avoid getting the cover to touch the leaves, should I put a roof on it to avoid getting the palms wet and freeze? Or will it maintain a microclimate inside?

washingtonia hybrid in pot, the smallest will be inside the house, should I keep watering it? It’ll be 16 feets from a south-west window, do I need a grow light? The other potted washy will be in the porch, covered, do I need to water  it from time to time?

phoenix canariensis in pot under the porch, do I need to cover it like the washy?watering?

cycas will stay outside unprotected, I’m willing to take the risk!

Washy seedling is in bad shape, because I’ve tried putting it in 100% lechuza pon in self watering pot, but leaves closed and yellowed, so I moved it back in soil in a normal pot (roots were white and well maintained) - do I keep it inside the house or give it a shot under the cover in the porch?

sabal seedling, again, inside or outside covered?btw anyone can ID the species or is it still too young?

 

areca and Chamaedorea are stable inside, so no worries for them.

 

excuse me for my poor English and for being lenghty on the post, thanks everyone that will take the time to read all of this and share some advice!

attached some pics

[JohnAndSancho]

Washingtonians really don't like cold moisture getting into their crown. I learned that the hard way with mine - it was under a patio at my apartment, so I just covered it with a sheet. Definitely use stakes or something to keep the weight of the sheet from bending the fronds. 

 

Your cycas will be fine, several of them survived the big Texas freeze of 2021 unprotected. 

 

I don't know much about Phoenix or Sabals - personally, I'd bring the Sabal inside just because it's so small. 

 

Welcome to PalmTalk! Great collection you have! 

[Nikoskater]

4 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Washingtonians really don't like cold moisture getting into their crown. I learned that the hard way with mine - it was under a patio at my apartment, so I just covered it with a sheet. Definitely use stakes or something to keep the weight of the sheet from bending the fronds. 

 

Your cycas will be fine, several of them survived the big Texas freeze of 2021 unprotected. 

 

I don't know much about Phoenix or Sabals - personally, I'd bring the Sabal inside just because it's so small. 

 

Welcome to PalmTalk! Great collection you have! 

Thanks for the reply!

do you mean I need to put a “roof” on top of the washy planted in the ground?

What about watering covered plants under the patio/porch?

the sheet/cover I’ll be using is this in the pictures

 

 

[JohnAndSancho]

I just used a flannel bed sheet for my Washingtonia to keep the rain out. The first year I had it, I didn't cover it because I wanted to take a picture with snow on it. It took a year for it to recover and it was never the same. 

 

As far as watering, I can't really say. It never stays cold here for very long, it'll freeze and then be 60-70°F in a few days. The only exception was the Texas freeze in 2021, but I brought everything inside and got stuck at work for 10 days. I was a hotel manager and basically all of Texas shut down, our entire city lost power and water for a week.

[Dwarf Fan]

Washingtonias and Sabals like lots of sun move the indoor ones in pots to a window that gets lots of sun light, the more light the faster the growth the healthier the Palm. You can also move them outside during times of no frost, there is a member here in Canada that has a Washy in a pot that he only leaves outside 2 months a year and it looks very happy.

Washingtonias are cold hardy/tolerant easily down to -7C (20F) below that they can take damage but will generally survive/regrow after short periods down to as low as -9C (15F).

Washingtonias do NOT need any type of winter protection above -7C (20F).

Sabal species, while variable depending on what you have, are generally even more cold tolerant and can take -15C (5F) and below depending on the species.

Washingtonias are not picky about soil outside when in the ground, but indoors you will want a very fast draining soil or you can make a fast draining mix so that you can water more often without getting your soil soggy. I noticed European members tend to use different soil aggregates such as Seramis, LECA, &Coco Coir Vs. members in the USA tend to use Perlite, Pine Bark, Gravel & Sand, but they all achieve the same results more oxygen/aeration to the roots which prevents over watering and improves growth speed when grown in containers or pots.

From the pics it looks like you have a good aggregate to soil ratio if this came from the nursery try to replicate it, if you did the mix yourself good job that looks adequate.

Washingtonias will grow out of just sand with no fertilizer and look perfectly healthy, it is the weed of Palm trees, it is almost impossible to kill, they can survive drought and neglect but do not like their soil to be overly moist/wet all the time. Slightly dry to consistently moist is what they like best.

Cycas revoluta likes the same conditions as the Washingtonia.

Sabals are happy with more soil moisture than Washingtonias, but BOTH palms love LOTS of SUN. 

Phoenix also like lots of sun as well.

You must slowly sun acclimate indoor palms over 6 weeks to natural full sun if they have never lived outside before by moving them into a completely shaded area out of direct sunlight and then move them very slowly over the the time of a month and a half into the full sun. You can put them under a shady tree or under the roof on a patio or use shade cloth but do NOT move any Palm into direct sun that has lived indoors it’s whole life you MUST do the sun acclimate process before planting outside in the ground or the Palm will die.

Chamaedorea elegans does NOT like full sun and should do well indoors in a pot.

Good practice for most Palm species do NOT water into the crown, water at the soil line.

If you decide to use fertilizer you MUST use a SLOW release PALM specific formula, in USA two of the best are Palm Gain & Palm Tone. I don’t know what you have in Europe.

Never fertilize during winter Palms are in their dormant/slow growth phase only feed Spring, Summer & Fall 3 times per year that is all that is necessary.

Welcome to Palm Talk.

Here is my Washy in my yard it gets direct Texas sunshine, no shade. I have never fertilized it and it grows out of just beach sand, no soil, it rarely gets watered other than natural rainfall at this size. 

[Nikoskater]

2 hours ago, Dwarf Fan said:

Washingtonias and Sabals like lots of sun move the indoor ones in pots to a window that gets lots of sun light, the more light the faster the growth the healthier the Palm. You can also move them outside during times of no frost, there is a member here in Canada that has a Washy in a pot that he only leaves outside 2 months a year and it looks very happy.

Washingtonias are cold hardy/tolerant easily down to -7C (20F) below that they can take damage but will generally survive/regrow after short periods down to as low as -9C (15F).

Washingtonias do NOT need any type of winter protection above -7C (20F).

Sabal species, while variable depending on what you have, are generally even more cold tolerant and can take -15C (5F) and below depending on the species.

Washingtonias are not picky about soil outside when in the ground, but indoors you will want a very fast draining soil or you can make a fast draining mix so that you can water more often without getting your soil soggy. I noticed European members tend to use different soil aggregates such as Seramis, LECA, &Coco Coir Vs. members in the USA tend to use Perlite, Pine Bark, Gravel & Sand, but they all achieve the same results more oxygen/aeration to the roots which prevents over watering and improves growth speed when grown in containers or pots.

From the pics it looks like you have a good aggregate to soil ratio if this came from the nursery try to replicate it, if you did the mix yourself good job that looks adequate.

Washingtonias will grow out of just sand with no fertilizer and look perfectly healthy, it is the weed of Palm trees, it is almost impossible to kill, they can survive drought and neglect but do not like their soil to be overly moist/wet all the time. Slightly dry to consistently moist is what they like best.

Cycas revoluta likes the same conditions as the Washingtonia.

Sabals are happy with more soil moisture than Washingtonias, but BOTH palms love LOTS of SUN. 

Phoenix also like lots of sun as well.

You must slowly sun acclimate indoor palms over 6 weeks to natural full sun if they have never lived outside before by moving them into a completely shaded area out of direct sunlight and then move them very slowly over the the time of a month and a half into the full sun. You can put them under a shady tree or under the roof on a patio or use shade cloth but do NOT move any Palm into direct sun that has lived indoors it’s whole life you MUST do the sun acclimate process before planting outside in the ground or the Palm will die.

Chamaedorea elegans does NOT like full sun and should do well indoors in a pot.

Good practice for most Palm species do NOT water into the crown, water at the soil line.

If you decide to use fertilizer you MUST use a SLOW release PALM specific formula, in USA two of the best are Palm Gain & Palm Tone. I don’t know what you have in Europe.

Never fertilize during winter Palms are in their dormant/slow growth phase only feed Spring, Summer & Fall 3 times per year that is all that is necessary.

Welcome to Palm Talk.

Here is my Washy in my yard it gets direct Texas sunshine, no shade. I have never fertilized it and it grows out of just beach sand, no soil, it rarely gets watered other than natural rainfall at this size. 

thanks for the reply!

it’s the first time I’m reading not to overwinter washingtonias, I feel a bit confused to be honest! Washingtonias and sabals are hardy bit even as seedlings?

the phoenix canariensis and the big potted Washingtonia will not fit inside that’s why I was thinking about leaving them in the patio covered!

and for the smaller one since I do not have a place near a window to give her enough sun, I was thinking about getting a sansi 600w full spectrum grow light

all of the palms (except for Areca and Chamaedorea) have been outside all summer getting 3/4 of the day of sun, and the night put in the patio to avoid getting watered everyday from the garden irrigation system! I don’t know how will they respond to been “caged” inside the house, and do I need to acclimate them again when they’ll be going outside again?

the palms were bought from privates since no nursery here has that kind of palms. The soil was made by me with river sand, gravel, pumice, perlite, cococoir, pon, humus and general soil.

I’ve fertilized once with general green plants fertilizer in summer, plus they have some slow release fertilizer in pon.

i’ve treated scales with neem oil.

attached a pic of the Chamaedorea kept indoor for 6 month now.

nice palm you got! How old is it?

[Dwarf Fan]

11 hours ago, Nikoskater said:

thanks for the reply!

it’s the first time I’m reading not to overwinter washingtonias, I feel a bit confused to be honest! Washingtonias and sabals are hardy bit even as seedlings?

What is the coldest winter temperature that you get down to in your city/town in Italy? That would probably be a better indicator if you need to do protection on your Washingtonia. The USDA Zone is not really the best method to use, but it lists your lowest temperature as:

 -9C (15F) to -7C (20F)  Which means you have the same USDA Zone as Austin, Texas which has countless Washingtonia Hybrids growing in that area and no one would bother to Winter protect a Washingtonia Hybrid in Austin they are very common there. The Sabal can definitely go outside with no winter protection at any age! Sabal King of Texas lives up near Dallas, TX  even further north (Zone 8a) and he leaves every species of his collection outside from as young as a brand new seedling! 

Also, the private collector sold you more Filifera dominant Hybrids (Fronds deeply cut below 50% or half way point) yours are clearly very Filifera so you will enjoy more cold hardiness than a Robusta dominant hybrid. I really would not be too worried about your Washingtonia Hybrids, the person you got them from had some very nice examples and actually sold you the most Cold Hardy Washingtonia you could possibly get, so you got extremely lucky/fortune with your selections. I have seen 1000s of Washys (Filifera/Robusta) in Southern California and Baja, Mexico in habitat and I grow them on my property here in Texas as well. Your pics show a nice example of a Filifera dominant Hybrid, you did very well if you were looking for the possibility of extra cold hardiness in the genetics.

11 hours ago, Nikoskater said:

the phoenix canariensis and the big potted Washingtonia will not fit inside that’s why I was thinking about leaving them in the patio covered!

Cover the Phoenix canariensis for sure they always take frond damage when it gets too cold they will be more cold sensitive than the Washingtonia and mystery Sabal species.

and for the smaller one since I do not have a place near a window to give her enough sun, I was thinking about getting a sansi 600w full spectrum grow light

Lots of people use grow lights to supplement indoor light for Palms, it is a good option if you don’t have a window near the location of the Palm.

all of the palms (except for Areca and Chamaedorea) have been outside all summer getting 3/4 of the day of sun, and the night put in the patio to avoid getting watered everyday from the garden irrigation system! I don’t know how will they respond to been “caged” inside the house, and do I need to acclimate them again when they’ll be going outside again?

They will be okay to live inside your home for a while that is how most Canadians grow Palms, they must be inside most of the year. This is a question I do not know, as I have never moved an outside Palm, inside and then back outside again. I would assume it would probably would not take the full 6 weeks to acclimate if it has lived outside before, but I would not just throw it into full sun after being inside for an extended period of time. This would be a good question for one of our Canadian Palm Talkers they move their Washingtonias inside and out year after year.

11 hours ago, Nikoskater said:

the palms were bought from privates since no nursery here has that kind of palms. The soil was made by me with river sand, gravel, pumice, perlite, cococoir, pon, humus and general soil.

Impressive mix for a new grower, that is better than what I use! Your Palms will love you and it sounds like they are in very good hands!

I’ve fertilized once with general green plants fertilizer in summer, plus they have some slow release fertilizer in pon.

Slow Release is half of the equation, the other half is using a Palm specific ratio it will not only have the right NPK but the micro nutrient requirements of Palms require a specific formulation. “General Purpose” plant fertilizer may seem to be okay when used once or maybe a few times but over time your Palm will not receive what it needs in the amounts that will make it grow fast and look healthy.

i’ve treated scales with neem oil.

 That is a great safe pest control product Neem Oil is popular here as well. Asian Cycad Scale plagued my Cycas revoluta a few months back and I sprayed double strength coffee all over it and in about a month they scale invasion was almost completely gone. Very cheap, safe, effective and usually already in the home!

attached a pic of the Chamaedorea kept indoor for 6 month now.

nice palm you got! How old is it?

Beautiful elegans looks very happy, I love Chamaedoreas I have a Radicals outside in a pot, I bought it from a Nursery Greenhouse so it has been slowly sun acclimating under my Bamboo for several weeks. I could probably plant it in ground now, but I will wait until early spring so that it starts growing rapidly as soon as it goes in the ground. I will probably get an indoor Chamaedorea at some point, I have 36 species and well over 100 individual Palms, but none are kept indoors.

Thank you, my Washingtonia Hybrid is just a little over 20 years old and approaching 9 meters (30 feet) in height.

[Dwarf Fan]

Also, my Washingtonia Hybrid in the picture survived  -7C (20F) in the coldest winter in Texas in 40 years “Palmageddon ‘21” with ZERO damage.

Cold Hardiness/Tolerance can also be effected by WET cold if you get WET & COLD at the same time it is more deadly for Palms, they can withstand lower temperatures if it is a dry cold.

Seedlings are more cold sensitive than mature Palms so if you want to take your baby Palms indoors for the coldest day or few days during Winter just for EXTRA caution there is nothing wrong with that, but I would be curious to see what your coldest temperature that was recorded last winter? 

[Nikoskater]

1 hour ago, Dwarf Fan said:

Also, my Washingtonia Hybrid in the picture survived  -7C (20F) in the coldest winter in Texas in 40 years “Palmageddon ‘21” with ZERO damage.

Cold Hardiness/Tolerance can also be effected by WET cold if you get WET & COLD at the same time it is more deadly for Palms, they can withstand lower temperatures if it is a dry cold.

Seedlings are more cold sensitive than mature Palms so if you want to take your baby Palms indoors for the coldest day or few days during Winter just for EXTRA caution there is nothing wrong with that, but I would be curious to see what your coldest temperature that was recorded last winter? 

The coldest nights last winter I think were around -5/-6c, but it gets also wet.

that’s why I was thinking about covering the one in the ground, since now is very little yet like 20inches tall more or less.

i don’t know about the others in the patio because it has only two sides of wall protection, the other two are exposed, so if it rains sideways it’ll wet the palms.

 

 

[Dwarf Fan]

26 minutes ago, Nikoskater said:

The coldest nights last winter I think were around -5/-6c, but it gets also wet.

that’s why I was thinking about covering the one in the ground, since now is very little yet like 20inches tall more or less.

i don’t know about the others in the patio because it has only two sides of wall protection, the other two are exposed, so if it rains sideways it’ll wet the palms.

 

 

Your Washingtonias and Sabal should be fine if you do not drop below -5/-6c this winter, you will be okay at that temperature even in wet rain.

Cover your Phoenix for sure with the cold protection fleece you bought during the coldest period of winter and uncover as soon as it passes do not keep it covered too long, the fronds and crown are the parts that will take cold damage first.

“Washy seedling is in bad shape, because I’ve tried putting it in 100% lechuza pon in self watering pot, but leaves closed and yellowed, so I moved it back in soil in a normal pot (roots were white and well maintained) - do I keep it inside the house or give it a shot under the cover in the porch?”

I would put the Washy seedling on the porch, I think it got too much water and not enough sun when you put it in the self watering pot. After a month on the porch you should see good growth if so it is happy. Let it get more size and some new fronds before putting it into full sun and then it should take off. It will be more happy in normal soil outside, just keep soil consistently damp NOT too wet/soggy for Washy.

[Dwarf Fan]

Here is my porch notice most Palms just get indirect sunlight, but the Palms on one side are now getting direct morning sun?

I got most of the Palms on my patio from a shade grown greenhouse and they were not ready for even small amounts of direct morning sun, as you can see below in pics the leaflets of the frond “wrinkle” or “crumple”, showing that they were not ready for direct sun YET (remember 6 weeks time to SLOWLY sun acclimate), here is how they “talk” to you.

 

NON-Sun Acclimated Sabal Tamaulipas “sun burn/damage”:

NON-Sun Acclimated Chamadorea radicalis “sun burn/damage”:

[Nikoskater]

1 hour ago, Dwarf Fan said:

Here is my porch notice most Palms just get indirect sunlight, but the Palms on one side are now getting direct morning sun?

I got most of the Palms on my patio from a shade grown greenhouse and they were not ready for even small amounts of direct morning sun, as you can see below in pics the leaflets of the frond “wrinkle” or “crumple”, showing that they were not ready for direct sun YET (remember 6 weeks time to SLOWLY sun acclimate), here is how they “talk” to you.

 

NON-Sun Acclimated Sabal Tamaulipas “sun burn/damage”:

NON-Sun Acclimated Chamadorea radicalis “sun burn/damage”:

 

1 hour ago, Dwarf Fan said:

Your Washingtonias and Sabal should be fine if you do not drop below -5/-6c this winter, you will be okay at that temperature even in wet rain.

Cover your Phoenix for sure with the cold protection fleece you bought during the coldest period of winter and uncover as soon as it passes do not keep it covered too long, the fronds and crown are the parts that will take cold damage first.

“Washy seedling is in bad shape, because I’ve tried putting it in 100% lechuza pon in self watering pot, but leaves closed and yellowed, so I moved it back in soil in a normal pot (roots were white and well maintained) - do I keep it inside the house or give it a shot under the cover in the porch?”

I would put the Washy seedling on the porch, I think it got too much water and not enough sun when you put it in the self watering pot. After a month on the porch you should see good growth if so it is happy. Let it get more size and some new fronds before putting it into full sun and then it should take off. It will be more happy in normal soil outside, just keep soil consistently damp NOT too wet/soggy for Washy.

thanks a lot again, I really appreciate your help!

So I’ll wait till winter kicks in and as soon as I see temperatures drop below -5 I’ll cover the planted in the grownd Washingtonia and the other ones outside!

will the leaves start yellowing with cold / wet weather?

also, do you know what kind of sabal I got?It was a present and I guessed sabal 😅

Edited October 28, 2023 by Nikoskater

[Dwarf Fan]

8 hours ago, Nikoskater said:

 

thanks a lot again, I really appreciate your help!

So I’ll wait till winter kicks in and as soon as I see temperatures drop below -5 I’ll cover the planted in the grownd Washingtonia and the other ones outside!

will the leaves start yellowing with cold / wet weather?

also, do you know what kind of sabal I got?It was a present and I guessed sabal 😅

Welcome, Washingtonias will always be one of my favorite Palms it is amazing to know that in Italy you are able to enjoy a California Fan Palm hybrid in your location! Something I would have never even considered but it sounds like it will definitely be hardy in your zone!

Again, I don’t have much experience protecting Palms (only during Winter ‘21) and I don’t know how quickly your daytime temperatures rise but, I would say if the sun comes out and starts to warm up DEFINITELY make sure to REMOVE the cover during the day so you do not over heat the Palm, if the temperatures return to safe levels remove the cover during the days and only put it on during the night. I left all my Palms covered in ‘21 and during the very next day after snow, the sun came out and cooked 4 of my Palms DEAD. I believe they died not from the cold but from overheating because I used plastic instead of a more breathable material! So learn from my mistake, I would assume the fleece is used because more air can pass through the material. But the sun can make a super heated bag and steam a Palm tree like a vegetable here in Texas! I don’t know how quickly your daytime temperatures rise but we can go from very cold to very hot in one day!

Freezing cold damage will show up over night as completely brown or bronze color fronds “fried” or “FRITTO” if my Italian serves me, NOT Yellow. All the damaged green tissue will instantly turn to brown or bronze color. If you start to see any visual damage on the fronds, the next morning after a very cold night, that would be a sign to cover the Palms because they are taking frost damage. 

Cold Tolerance does vary a little bit from Palm to Palm but you know when to start to watch your Palms now, if you see them start to take a little damage over night the next morning cover them before the next night as they are telling you what their limit is.

Also, adding an extra layer of leaves around the base of the trunk to insulate the ground is definitely a good idea and is an popular practice here, mulch is also popular as ground “insulation” and more dense than just leaves only, you could also do both.

One more thing, Washingtonias can take 100% frond damage and grow back completely green fronds in one year it is a super power not everyone knows about! So don’t dig it up and throw it away if it gets all brown and fried looking over an unexpected freeze that you didn’t have time to protect. The Washingtonia can even “SPEAR PULL” and still come back to life by Spring! They can basically came back from the dead if frozen to death! Give them at least till spring before considering a Washy completely dead from freezing, be patient they are very tough Palms and have surprised many people who thought they would never survive extreme cold events. But no one wants an ugly brown Palm so I understand why you are cautious because you can get cold weather in North Italy. Same in Texas the south is always warm with mild winters, but the North can get very cold during winter snow and ice.

Your Sabal will be a present that will have to remain a surprise for a while longer! There is no way to tell species at that age but I can verify it looks just like all my young Sabals species that are very young so you definitely have a Sabal!

The most common in America are the Dwarf Palmetto (Sabal Minor) it is very short usually only 1 meter after many many years of growth, the next most common is the Cabbage Palm (Sabal Palmetto) which when mature can be over 25 meters tall!!! 

Would you hope for a very short Dwarf Sabal Palm or do you want a giant Sabal Palm? You have the opportunity to get one of the shortest or one of the tallest Palms! That is the thing about Sabal genus it has a wide range of sizes! Washy you know you will have a very tall Palm.

Washy are also some of the FASTEST growing of all the Palms species, so you will have a BIG Palm in only a few years, Sabals are usually very slow growing that is normal be patient, only a few Sabals are fast and even the faster Sabal will never catch up to your smallest Washy! Washingtonias in full sun can grow 30+ centimeters per year.

Within in a year or two depending on how fast Sabals grow in Italy, you should be able to positively identify what species you have maybe something even more rare who knows…

Please post pics when your Sabal gets a little older and Palm Talk will be able to tell you what species you have that should be possible when we can see the first true set of fronds, but it still might be a mystery depending on what species you have, so you might have to wait until it sets seeds but we shall see.

[Dwarf Fan]

Here is a link to the Winter protection thread so you can get ideas of how to best wrap up your Palms when the cold comes:

 

[Nikoskater]

On 10/29/2023 at 2:17 AM, Dwarf Fan said:

Welcome, Washingtonias will always be one of my favorite Palms it is amazing to know that in Italy you are able to enjoy a California Fan Palm hybrid in your location! Something I would have never even considered but it sounds like it will definitely be hardy in your zone!

Again, I don’t have much experience protecting Palms (only during Winter ‘21) and I don’t know how quickly your daytime temperatures rise but, I would say if the sun comes out and starts to warm up DEFINITELY make sure to REMOVE the cover during the day so you do not over heat the Palm, if the temperatures return to safe levels remove the cover during the days and only put it on during the night. I left all my Palms covered in ‘21 and during the very next day after snow, the sun came out and cooked 4 of my Palms DEAD. I believe they died not from the cold but from overheating because I used plastic instead of a more breathable material! So learn from my mistake, I would assume the fleece is used because more air can pass through the material. But the sun can make a super heated bag and steam a Palm tree like a vegetable here in Texas! I don’t know how quickly your daytime temperatures rise but we can go from very cold to very hot in one day!

Freezing cold damage will show up over night as completely brown or bronze color fronds “fried” or “FRITTO” if my Italian serves me, NOT Yellow. All the damaged green tissue will instantly turn to brown or bronze color. If you start to see any visual damage on the fronds, the next morning after a very cold night, that would be a sign to cover the Palms because they are taking frost damage. 

Cold Tolerance does vary a little bit from Palm to Palm but you know when to start to watch your Palms now, if you see them start to take a little damage over night the next morning cover them before the next night as they are telling you what their limit is.

Also, adding an extra layer of leaves around the base of the trunk to insulate the ground is definitely a good idea and is an popular practice here, mulch is also popular as ground “insulation” and more dense than just leaves only, you could also do both.

One more thing, Washingtonias can take 100% frond damage and grow back completely green fronds in one year it is a super power not everyone knows about! So don’t dig it up and throw it away if it gets all brown and fried looking over an unexpected freeze that you didn’t have time to protect. The Washingtonia can even “SPEAR PULL” and still come back to life by Spring! They can basically came back from the dead if frozen to death! Give them at least till spring before considering a Washy completely dead from freezing, be patient they are very tough Palms and have surprised many people who thought they would never survive extreme cold events. But no one wants an ugly brown Palm so I understand why you are cautious because you can get cold weather in North Italy. Same in Texas the south is always warm with mild winters, but the North can get very cold during winter snow and ice.

Your Sabal will be a present that will have to remain a surprise for a while longer! There is no way to tell species at that age but I can verify it looks just like all my young Sabals species that are very young so you definitely have a Sabal!

The most common in America are the Dwarf Palmetto (Sabal Minor) it is very short usually only 1 meter after many many years of growth, the next most common is the Cabbage Palm (Sabal Palmetto) which when mature can be over 25 meters tall!!! 

Would you hope for a very short Dwarf Sabal Palm or do you want a giant Sabal Palm? You have the opportunity to get one of the shortest or one of the tallest Palms! That is the thing about Sabal genus it has a wide range of sizes! Washy you know you will have a very tall Palm.

Washy are also some of the FASTEST growing of all the Palms species, so you will have a BIG Palm in only a few years, Sabals are usually very slow growing that is normal be patient, only a few Sabals are fast and even the faster Sabal will never catch up to your smallest Washy! Washingtonias in full sun can grow 30+ centimeters per year.

Within in a year or two depending on how fast Sabals grow in Italy, you should be able to positively identify what species you have maybe something even more rare who knows…

Please post pics when your Sabal gets a little older and Palm Talk will be able to tell you what species you have that should be possible when we can see the first true set of fronds, but it still might be a mystery depending on what species you have, so you might have to wait until it sets seeds but we shall see.

Here we don’t get that rollercoaster of temperature in winter, if minimum temp is around/below 0, there’s a variation of few degrees (min -2 max 4) for 3-4 months more or less.

definitely I’m a big lover of “fritto” but not on plants though 😂

 My only regret is not planting in soil the oldest Washingtonia, maybe I would have not been too scared to leave it unprotected, and been already tall it would have been nicer to look at!

as for the sabal I think that I’ll remain in pot (if it can survive in pot) but I would prefer a palmetto!

I’ll do update with pictures for sure!

[Nikoskater]

On 10/29/2023 at 1:43 PM, Dwarf Fan said:

Here is a link to the Winter protection thread so you can get ideas of how to best wrap up your Palms when the cold comes:

 

Wow that’s next level for sure!

I’m hoping to be on the easier side as I’m not willing to have electricity cables running in my garden, with thermocubes and halogen bulbs.

i could do some sort of wooden case just to avoid putting the fleece cloth on top of the leaves, but not sure yet!

[Nikoskater]

On 11/1/2023 at 9:58 AM, Nikoskater said:

Here we don’t get that rollercoaster of temperature in winter, if minimum temp is around/below 0, there’s a variation of few degrees (min -2 max 4) for 3-4 months more or less.

definitely I’m a big lover of “fritto” but not on plants though 😂

 My only regret is not planting in soil the oldest Washingtonia, maybe I would have not been too scared to leave it unprotected, and been already tall it would have been nicer to look at!

as for the sabal I think that I’ll remain in pot (if it can survive in pot) but I would prefer a palmetto!

I’ll do update with pictures for sure!

Do you @Dwarf Fan think given the fact that in winter during the day I don’t get that temperature rise during the day, like you get in Texas, I should take part of the protections shown in the post you’ve linked?

 

[SFLP48584]

Welcome Niko!  That is an impressive collection you have.

Your Sabal seedling looks like Sabal palmetto, which are everywhere here, but I am not an expert at Sabal species id and a lot of the species look very similar at that stage.

-Michael

[Dwarf Fan]

8 hours ago, Nikoskater said:

Do you @Dwarf Fan think given the fact that in winter during the day I don’t get that temperature rise during the day, like you get in Texas, I should take part of the protections shown in the post you’ve linked?

 

I don’t have much experience as I said with protection of Palms, I would ask your question in the Cold Hardy Master Thread that I linked above. There you can get advice from people who have many seasons of experience protecting their Palms. I don’t get enough cold events where I live, I have only been through one bad winter and my protection was not adequate enough. So you would do better to ask the experts over there about the specifics of winter protection practices.