Question: Ziploc baggie palm seed germination

[Maximum]

I’m trying to get palm seeds to germinate in ziploc baggies. My biggest concern is fungus/mold. 
I cleaned all the fruit and flesh off, soaked them in clean water for a few days and covered them in moistened paper towel (not dripping wet). I packed quite a few in each bag. I moistened the paper towel using a spray bottle full of purified water and hydrogen peroxide in a 70/30 ratio. 
I’m germinating them in their baggies inside at 75 degrees Fahrenheit in the dark (is that too cool? I’m worried any warmer and they’ll have fungus issues)
The plan is to wait until they put out a couple leaves then pot them up outside.

My questions are: Does it sound like I’m doing the ziploc baggie method correctly and does anyone have any advice?
When do the seedlings need light? 
And also how often do I need to check the bags for mold and dispose of the seeds? Or should things be ok if the seeds are clean and the temperature’s right? 

Suggestions or comments appreciated! 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Maximum

[Fusca]

35 minutes ago, Maximum said:

My questions are: Does it sound like I’m doing the ziploc baggie method correctly and does anyone have any advice?
When do the seedlings need light? 
And also how often do I need to check the bags for mold and dispose of the seeds? Or should things be ok if the seeds are clean and the temperature’s right? 

I think most folks use sphagnum moss in ziploc baggies for germination but you might be OK with using a damp paper towel.  Some use just perlite, others use potting medium.  Regardless of the medium used it should be just barely moist and not wet.  Bottom heat helps with palm seed germination for most species but some (not all) will germinate indoors at room temperature.  I use a heat mat but I have also had success placing the baggies on top of my satellite TV box, water heater or even refrigerator.  Seeds don't need light to germinate but once the first leaf appears it should get some light.  In your area you can easily germinate seeds outdoors in a community pot most of the year during warm weather.  Depending on the species fresh seeds could germinate in a matter of weeks or as long as a year or two.  As long as seeds are solid they are still potentially viable but  if they crush when lightly squeezed then they are rotted and no good.  What species of palm are you trying to germinate?

[Brian]

I always did the baggie method with barley moist peat moss however I like community pot germination much better. The better the airflow, the less chance of mold. Also, alot depends on what type of palm seeds you are germinating. If I was in Fort Myers I would try to get them outside sooner then later, again for better airflow. If there a cold snap just bring them in until its over. I alway gave them light when the first leaf appeared but in some genera the first leaf shoots out deep down the root so you might have to wait until it long enough to clear the seed. In community pot this all happens naturally. 

 

[Brian]

2 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I think most folks use sphagnum moss in ziploc baggies for germination but you might be OK with using a damp paper towel.  Some use just perlite, others use potting medium.  Regardless of the medium used it should be just barely moist and not wet.  Bottom heat helps with palm seed germination for most species but some (not all) will germinate indoors at room temperature.  I use a heat mat but I have also had success placing the baggies on top of my satellite TV box, water heater or even refrigerator.  Seeds don't need light to germinate but once the first leaf appears it should get some light.  In your area you can easily germinate seeds outdoors in a community pot most of the year during warm weather.  Depending on the species fresh seeds could germinate in a matter of weeks or as long as a year or two.  As long as seeds are solid they are still potentially viable but  if they crush when lightly squeezed then they are rotted and no good.  What species of palm are you trying to germinate?

Good point about squeezing the seeds. Ive had Licuala seeds germinate after two years. 

[Fusca]

8 minutes ago, Brian said:

Good point about squeezing the seeds. Ive had Licuala seeds germinate after two years. 

Same here - Acrocomia aculeata and totai both took two years for me also.  Attalea cohune took probably 15 months.  I have been to Morelia in Michoacan.   

[Brian]

5 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Same here - Acrocomia aculeata and totai both took two years for me also.  Attalea cohune took probably 15 months.  I have been to Morelia in Michoacan.   

I used to use the baggie method when I lived in Mexico City and tempertures are cool. Down here on the coast the community pot method is the way to go. 

[Maximum]

Thanks for the advice @Brian and @Fusca it’s very helpful. I’m trying to germinate a lot of species of palms. 
I’ll list them as they come to mind (not in alphabetical order)…

red sealing wax palm, licuala grandis, rostonia regia, chambeyronia macrocarpa, Christmas palm, carpoxylon macrospermum, Satakentia luikiensis, king Alexander palm, Alexander palm, spindle palm, nikau palm, Kentia palm, Cham. elegans, Pygmy date palm, silver date palm, canary island palm, and I might be forgetting one or two others.  

Obviously, I went ALL IN! I felt confident in the baggie method before but I’m feeling a little unsure now. 
I went with the ziploc baggie method because I lost 100 very small royal palm seedlings that were in a large kiddie pool overnight a couple months ago from idk what. Maybe rabbits, lizards, birds, etc.? All eaten. Not a single survivor. So that scared me away from the community pots. 
I think I should have given community pots another try 🤦‍♂️ Maybe I’ll buy kiddie pools, potting mix and perlite and transport the seeds from baggies to kiddie pools when I get the chance.
What have I gotten myself into? 😂 
 

[Fusca]

10 minutes ago, Maximum said:

Thanks for the advice @Brian and @Fusca it’s very helpful. I’m trying to germinate a lot of species of palms. 
I’ll list them as they come to mind (not in alphabetical order)…

red sealing wax palm, licuala grandis, rostonia regia, chambeyronia macrocarpa, Christmas palm, carpoxylon macrospermum, Satakentia luikiensis, king Alexander palm, Alexander palm, spindle palm, nikau palm, Kentia palm, Cham. elegans, Pygmy date palm, silver date palm, canary island palm, and I might be forgetting one or two others.  

Obviously, I went ALL IN! I felt confident in the baggie method before but I’m feeling a little unsure now. 
I went with the ziploc baggie method because I lost 100 very small royal palm seedlings that were in a large kiddie pool overnight a couple months ago from idk what. Maybe rabbits, lizards, birds, etc.? All eaten. Not a single survivor. So that scared me away from the community pots. 
I think I should have given community pots another try 🤦‍♂️ Maybe I’ll buy kiddie pools, potting mix and perlite and transport the seeds from baggies to kiddie pools when I get the chance.
What have I gotten myself into? 😂 
 

King palms (Archontophoenix), Christmas palm (Adonidia), all the date palms (Phoenix), Roystonea regia and Chambeyronia should all be easy to germinate and sprout rather quickly (4-6 weeks).  Others probably longer (as @Brian pointed out Licuala takes awhile!).  I've had problems with rodents getting seeds/sprouts outdoors so now I protect them.  Certain species seem to germinate better for me in community pots outside.  Good luck with your efforts!  I do believe that the nikau will be a tough grow for you in the hot humid weather there however as they prefer cool nights.

[aabell]

33 minutes ago, Maximum said:

Thanks for the advice @Brian and @Fusca it’s very helpful. I’m trying to germinate a lot of species of palms. 
I’ll list them as they come to mind (not in alphabetical order)…

red sealing wax palm, licuala grandis, rostonia regia, chambeyronia macrocarpa, Christmas palm, carpoxylon macrospermum, Satakentia luikiensis, king Alexander palm, Alexander palm, spindle palm, nikau palm, Kentia palm, Cham. elegans, Pygmy date palm, silver date palm, canary island palm, and I might be forgetting one or two others.  

Obviously, I went ALL IN! I felt confident in the baggie method before but I’m feeling a little unsure now. 
I went with the ziploc baggie method because I lost 100 very small royal palm seedlings that were in a large kiddie pool overnight a couple months ago from idk what. Maybe rabbits, lizards, birds, etc.? All eaten. Not a single survivor. So that scared me away from the community pots. 
I think I should have given community pots another try 🤦‍♂️ Maybe I’ll buy kiddie pools, potting mix and perlite and transport the seeds from baggies to kiddie pools when I get the chance.
What have I gotten myself into? 😂 
 

I'm in Fort Myers as well and have never bothered with the baggie method, although everything I've successfully germinated so far has been fairly common and easy. I just use a quality soil mix and 1 gal pots, even in the dead of winter most things will germinate decently well outside. Just bring them inside for nights that dip into the 30s or low 40s. 

I have had some issues with squirrels or rats digging up seedlings but you just have to protect them somehow when they are very small, get a screened box around them or a cat. Even if you do start them in bags, you would have to get them in pots when they are still small enough to be vulnerable anyways, so the bag method doesn't solve that problem.

But as @Fusca said, Roystonea, Adonidia, Archontophoenix, Phoenix, and Veitchia (if you have any, if not you should pick some of those up too) should all quick and easy to germinate in a pot of dirt, no special care required. The rest might require more patience or careful attention. 

 

[Maximum]

38 minutes ago, Fusca said:

King palms (Archontophoenix), Christmas palm (Adonidia), all the date palms (Phoenix), Roystonea regia and Chambeyronia should all be easy to germinate and sprout rather quickly (4-6 weeks).  Others probably longer (as @Brian pointed out Licuala takes awhile!).  I've had problems with rodents getting seeds/sprouts outdoors so now I protect them.  Certain species seem to germinate better for me in community pots outside.  Good luck with your efforts!  I do believe that the nikau will be a tough grow for you in the hot humid weather there however as they prefer cool nights.

So it’s the rodents!! Darn rats! At least they’re cute 😝 

Oh boy sounds like I’m in for fungal issues in the summers with the Nikaus? 

 

 

 

[Maximum]

17 minutes ago, aabell said:

I'm in Fort Myers as well and have never bothered with the baggie method, although everything I've successfully germinated so far has been fairly common and easy. I just use a quality soil mix and 1 gal pots, even in the dead of winter most things will germinate decently well outside. Just bring them inside for nights that dip into the 30s or low 40s. 

I have had some issues with squirrels or rats digging up seedlings but you just have to protect them somehow when they are very small, get a screened box around them or a cat. Even if you do start them in bags, you would have to get them in pots when they are still small enough to be vulnerable anyways, so the bag method doesn't solve that problem.

But as @Fusca said, Roystonea, Adonidia, Archontophoenix, Phoenix, and Veitchia (if you have any, if not you should pick some of those up too) should all quick and easy to germinate in a pot of dirt, no special care required. The rest might require more patience or careful attention. 

Hey Ft Myers palm friend! 👋 

Good stuff, thanks.

I’ll have to buy some screens to protect the seedlings cause I don’t have a cat 😉 

[PalmsandLiszt]

On 10/26/2023 at 12:19 AM, Maximum said:

red sealing wax palm

I doubt you'll get good germination of C. renda at 75; I'd aim for 85-90. I have several pots full of tiny seedlings and they seem to laugh off fungus so long as they're hot. The only ones I've lost so far were due to drying out, which is instantly fatal. But no damping off at all so far.

[Maximum]

1 hour ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

I doubt you'll get good germination of C. renda at 75; I'd aim for 85-90. I have several pots full of tiny seedlings and they seem to laugh off fungus so long as they're hot. The only ones I've lost so far were due to drying out, which is instantly fatal. But no damping off at all so far.

That’s awesome. Are you just talking about your red sealing wax palms or others as well? 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Maximum

[PalmsandLiszt]

14 minutes ago, Maximum said:

That’s awesome. Are you just talking about your red sealing wax palms or others as well? 

Just C. renda. The others ought to be OK at 75; maybe not Licualas, but I'm hopeless at germinating them, so don't take advice from me about that. 80-85 probably wouldn't hurt for most of the ones you are trying. Do absolutely be afraid of damping off/fungus, as this loves to kill palm seedlings, but I haven't seen any at all in my C. renda sprouts, which are evolved to live in swamps, so you can't really give them too much water.

Hope all your seeds are fresh and good luck!

[Maximum]

@PalmsandLiszt Good to know. Thanks! Good luck to you as well 

[hbernstein]

You can forget about growing Rhopalostylis. I doubt that they would survive a full S. Florida summer's heat and humidity, even if you brought them in to air conditioning every evening. I tried some and they did fine, until they didn't! They might live as houseplants in a well air conditioned room by a bright window. 

[Maximum]

5 minutes ago, hbernstein said:

You can forget about growing Rhopalostylis. I doubt that they would survive a full S. Florida summer's heat and humidity, even if you brought them in to air conditioning every evening. I tried some and they did fine, until they didn't! They might live as houseplants in a well air conditioned room by a bright window. 

Darn. They’re so beautiful. Now I wish I lived in S. California 😢 😔 

[Fusca]

On 10/25/2023 at 7:26 PM, Maximum said:

Oh boy sounds like I’m in for fungal issues in the summers with the Nikaus? 

Like @hbernstein and I stated, they're just a tough grow in hot areas.  Same issue with Ceroxylon, Juania and a few other palms.

[Maximum]

1 hour ago, Fusca said:

Like @hbernstein and I stated, they're just a tough grow in hot areas.  Same issue with Ceroxylon, Juania and a few other 

Lesson learned: Next time before I order palm seeds I’m unfamiliar with I need to do some research on them… I foolishly assumed heat and humidity meant palm trees in paradise. Obviously, news to me, not all palms are created equal… I appreciate all the help I’ve received from everyone who’s interacted with this post! It’s been so very helpful. I’ve learned so much 😊 

 

[aabell]

2 hours ago, Maximum said:

Lesson learned: Next time before I order palm seeds I’m unfamiliar with I need to do some research on them… I foolishly assumed heat and humidity meant palm trees in paradise. Obviously, news to me, not all palms are created equal… I appreciate all the help I’ve received from everyone who’s interacted with this post! It’s been so very helpful. I’ve learned so much 😊 

 

There's a ton that can grow here, more than basically anywhere in the continental US outside of Miami. But yes palms and other tropicals from high elevations or plants from cooler climates like New Zealand will just melt in the heat in Florida. Best thing to do is go around to our local parks and gardens, as well as take a peak at people's yards to get a sense of what grows well in this area, and what you like. Especially if you're growing from seed, which can be highly rewarding, it's good to start with some foolproof stuff and learn some basic do's and don'ts and then expand your collection from there. Glad you're learning and enjoying it, feel free to message me if you have local specific questions as well. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by aabell

[Fishinsteeg234]

Here’s a good read on the basics from Palmpedia.net:

 https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/A_Primer_On_Germinating_Palm_Seeds

Personally Ive moved away from the baggie method and now only use home made germination boxes made from clear plastic storage bins with an inside bottom shelf added. The shelf drains and keeps a small amount of water at the bottom of the bin while the pots stay dry out of the water. This helps keep humidity high at all times. I also have heating pads underneath and temps are usually kept in the 90’sF, also in my garage. The tops are left slightly cracked to allow breathing. I have a grow light at the top to allow the seedlings to happily grow in the community pots to the first leafs before eventually transplanting. This works during the coldest months and keeps the squirrels  out of the equation (squirrels love to dig for the seeds if left outside).

I’ve found that transplanting small seedlings from a baggie to a nursery pot during winter months is too much stress with temp and humidity swings. The community pot in a humidity bin with a grow light can allow undisturbed growth for several consecutive months until the outside climate is favorable. 
 

You’ll get the hang of it for what works good for you! Good luck!
 

 

[Maximum]

1 hour ago, aabell said:

There's a ton that can grow here, more than basically anywhere in the continental US outside of Miami. But yes palms and other tropicals from high elevations or plants from cooler climates like New Zealand will just melt in the heat in Florida. Best thing to do is go around to our local parks and gardens, as well as take a peak at people's yards to get a sense of what grows well in this area, and what you like. Especially if you're growing from seed, which can be highly rewarding, it's good to start with some foolproof stuff and learn some basic do's and don'ts and then expand your collection from there. Glad you're learning and enjoying it, feel free to message me if you have local specific questions as well. 

Thanks! Will do

[Maximum]

33 minutes ago, Fishinsteeg234 said:

Here’s a good read on the basics from Palmpedia.net:

 https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/A_Primer_On_Germinating_Palm_Seeds

Personally Ive moved away from the baggie method and now only use home made germination boxes made from clear plastic storage bins with an inside bottom shelf added. The shelf drains and keeps a small amount of water at the bottom of the bin while the pots stay dry out of the water. This helps keep humidity high at all times. I also have heating pads underneath and temps are usually kept in the 90’sF, also in my garage. The tops are left slightly cracked to allow breathing. I have a grow light at the top to allow the seedlings to happily grow in the community pots to the first leafs before eventually transplanting. This works during the coldest months and keeps the squirrels  out of the equation (squirrels love to dig for the seeds if left outside).

I’ve found that transplanting small seedlings from a baggie to a nursery pot during winter months is too much stress with temp and humidity swings. The community pot in a humidity bin with a grow light can allow undisturbed growth for several consecutive months until the outside climate is favorable. 
 

You’ll get the hang of it for what works good for you! Good luck!
 

 

Super cool nice setup! 

[Hardypalms]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:48 PM, Fishinsteeg234 said:

Here’s a good read on the basics from Palmpedia.net:

 https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/A_Primer_On_Germinating_Palm_Seeds

Personally Ive moved away from the baggie method and now only use home made germination boxes made from clear plastic storage bins with an inside bottom shelf added. The shelf drains and keeps a small amount of water at the bottom of the bin while the pots stay dry out of the water. This helps keep humidity high at all times. I also have heating pads underneath and temps are usually kept in the 90’sF, also in my garage. The tops are left slightly cracked to allow breathing. I have a grow light at the top to allow the seedlings to happily grow in the community pots to the first leafs before eventually transplanting. This works during the coldest months and keeps the squirrels  out of the equation (squirrels love to dig for the seeds if left outside).

I’ve found that transplanting small seedlings from a baggie to a nursery pot during winter months is too much stress with temp and humidity swings. The community pot in a humidity bin with a grow light can allow undisturbed growth for several consecutive months until the outside climate is favorable. 
 

You’ll get the hang of it for what works good for you! Good luck!
 

 

Wow, this actually looks pretty good and no so hard to do.

The pics help.

Is your garage unheated? What is the average low if it’s unheated?

Thxs a lot

Pat

[JubaeaMan138]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:48 PM, Fishinsteeg234 said:

Here’s a good read on the basics from Palmpedia.net:

 https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/A_Primer_On_Germinating_Palm_Seeds

Personally Ive moved away from the baggie method and now only use home made germination boxes made from clear plastic storage bins with an inside bottom shelf added. The shelf drains and keeps a small amount of water at the bottom of the bin while the pots stay dry out of the water. This helps keep humidity high at all times. I also have heating pads underneath and temps are usually kept in the 90’sF, also in my garage. The tops are left slightly cracked to allow breathing. I have a grow light at the top to allow the seedlings to happily grow in the community pots to the first leafs before eventually transplanting. This works during the coldest months and keeps the squirrels  out of the equation (squirrels love to dig for the seeds if left outside).

I’ve found that transplanting small seedlings from a baggie to a nursery pot during winter months is too much stress with temp and humidity swings. The community pot in a humidity bin with a grow light can allow undisturbed growth for several consecutive months until the outside climate is favorable. 
 

You’ll get the hang of it for what works good for you! Good luck!
 

 

Interesting this looks almost identical to my set up  that I use during winter except I use extra large styrofoam coolers lights mounted to the underside of the lid . Lighted hot boxes.  does an amazing job. I have to dump the water that collects in them once a week . Got Copernicia cowellii, hospita , dypsis pembana , and some dypsis orange crush sprouts going in them right now . Ravenea sambiranensis going in soon as well as dypsis robusta and Carlsmithii . Fingers crossed . Mine are also on a work bench 🤣is that a craftsman ? 

[Fishinsteeg234]

@Hardypalms my unheated garage in Orlando rarely gets into the 40’s as a low. Probably averages around 60 during January. Usually it’s the heat that worries me with the seedlings especially during summer. With the hot humidity boxes on top of heating pads, I think they would still possibly hold good heat even if the garage gets below 40-50 degrees. A small temp/hygrometer placed inside will tell you if anything needs to be adjusted. 

[hbernstein]

Although as common as weeds in some places in South Florida, I recommend starting germination experiments with Veitchia. They are beautiful and can have the same "general" appearance as Rhopalostylis. They are extremely easy to germinate and grow, and look good at all life stages. 

[Maximum]

39 minutes ago, hbernstein said:

Although as common as weeds in some places in South Florida, I recommend starting germination experiments with Veitchia. They are beautiful and can have the same "general" appearance as Rhopalostylis. They are extremely easy to germinate and grow, and look good at all life stages. 

Which species of Veitchias are your favorites? I don’t like the ones that get 50+ ft tall. IMO their trunks are too skinny for that kind of height lol 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Maximum

[hbernstein]

Adonidia (used to be Adonidia, then Veitchia, then back to Adonidia) merrillii, the Christmas Palm. At maturity it's a shorter, more balanced veitchia-looking palm that's just as easy to grow.

[Maximum]

25 minutes ago, hbernstein said:

Adonidia (used to be Adonidia, then Veitchia, then back to Adonidia) merrillii, the Christmas Palm. At maturity it's a shorter, more balanced veitchia-looking palm that's just as easy to grow.

I’m very familiar and fond of Christmas palms! But I’ve heard they tend to be short-lived (having a 20-30 year lifespan). Is that true? 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Maximum

[hbernstein]

1 hour ago, Maximum said:

I’m very familiar and fond of Christmas palms! But I’ve heard they tend to be short-lived (having a 20-30 year lifespan). Is that true? 

I've never heard that! I know many plants that are older than 30 years. Maybe that idea arose when Lethal Yellowing spread and killed many that had been relatively recently planted. 

[Maximum]

10 minutes ago, hbernstein said:

I've never heard that! I know many plants that are older than 30 years. Maybe that idea arose when Lethal Yellowing spread and killed many that had been relatively recently planted. 

I’m happy to hear you’ve seen ones over 30 years old. That makes me feel better about them. They’re gorgeous palms!  

Edited October 30, 2023 by Maximum