South-Central USA Serenoa Population?

[L.A.M.]

If anyone has photographic proof of wild Serenoa repens and/or formal documentation of them in Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana or Mississippi, I'd like to know. I believe they're real, but finding wild ones isn't easy even where they're widespread and common and for people knowing where to look.

In my recent catalog of palm species native to every USA state/territory, I listed Serenoa repens as present in Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi, which a commenter questioned. Multiple sources cite Arkansas and Louisiana as the western boundary. There's also a discussion about the likelihood of a wild Tennessee Sabal minor population, and I'm convinced that at least the Hornsby population is legitimate; I also created a separate discussion to try to verify the Virginia Sabal minor population photographically. Remember, saw palmettos (and dwarf palmettos, for that matter) are so small that they don't really stand out in the swamps, jungles and savannas from roads and so slow-growing that they take decades to really recover in newly urbanized areas; I couldn't even see the Cherokee nor McCurtain dwarf palmettos in street view no matter how hard I tried and struggle to find plainly visible dwarf palmettos in Arkansas and North Carolina (in both of which it's long been common knowledge that they're common and widespread). If there are plainly visible wild dwarf palmettos in Tennessee and I can't find the wild ones in Oklahoma nor North Alabama nor easily find them in the right parts of Arkansas or North Carolina, I see no reason to believe that Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi are devoid of saw palmettos - which is to say no reason at all. Most land is privately owned even in seemingly hostile areas, and views from roads and urban areas are limited overall and deceptive due to the disturbance.

[Joe NC]

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=any&subview=map&taxon_id=83102

Check out inaturalist. 

Some of the reports are of obviously cultivated plants, and the ID's are wrong on some.  (I saw Sabal palmetto and minor, in a few I clicked on).

 

[SeanK]

On 10/24/2023 at 10:18 AM, Joe NC said:

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=any&subview=map&taxon_id=83102

Check out inaturalist. 

Some of the reports are of obviously cultivated plants, and the ID's are wrong on some.  (I saw Sabal palmetto and minor, in a few I clicked on).

 

Aside from a couple of urban sitings, the map looks reasonable. I have never seen S.minor in central or south Florida. I don't doubt it's there, but I've only seen it NE & NW corners into adjacent states.

[L.A.M.]

On 10/24/2023 at 9:18 AM, Joe NC said:

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=any&subview=map&taxon_id=83102

Check out inaturalist. 

Some of the reports are of obviously cultivated plants, and the ID's are wrong on some.  (I saw Sabal palmetto and minor, in a few I clicked on).

 

So it seems that they are native to at least AL, MS and LA, albeit narrowly in the latter case. The big question mark is AR along the Bayou Bartholomew, Mississippi River, Red River or tributaries of those three major rivers. . . .but I still think it'd at least make sense for it to at least be hiding somewhere around Eudora, given its hot climate and proximity to Louisiana and the mighty Mississippi.

On an unrelated note, with iNaturist, it seems that - even if we exclude intentional urban plantings - there's now an even more solid case for Sabal minor in Tennessee and Virginia. Unsurprisingly. It was the much more disputed reports of Serenoa repens in Arkansas that really shocked me, but again, at least it makes sense with its southern border being so far south and Eudora being just as hot as much of northern Louisiana.

Edited October 28, 2023 by L.A.M.

[Zeeth]

17 hours ago, SeanK said:

Aside from a couple of urban sitings, the map looks reasonable. I have never seen S.minor in central or south Florida. I don't doubt it's there, but I've only seen it NE & NW corners into adjacent states.

It's in Central Florida for sure. The furthest south I've seen it in cypress swamps in Hillsborough county. The form native here is very diminutive though.