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ID possible New Cal species

DoomsDave
DoomsDave
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

Featured Replies

Howdy all

This is a palm outside my bedroom window, that’s about 20 feet 6.7 m tall, that’s blooming and might set seed.

I remember a Palm Talker ( @BS Man about Palms I think ) provided a tentative ID a while back; maybe the inflorescence will aid in firming up an ID a bit.

All thoughts appreciated!

B6B45B7F-1A60-43A0-8E5F-0CA167EF3CCE.thumb.jpeg.3df4b3eeeb1f297c61e7bf8a6b14e846.jpeg

25E3AF10-A7D9-40B2-8D2C-BB7F1FC8D1C7.thumb.jpeg.7604369dbcb604fa2b0aeea63daa81c8.jpeg

 

00C41E63-ED2A-427C-AC3B-1C6A265BADAF.thumb.jpeg.7453c46f4868178f74206e47c73fdb26.jpeg

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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    • Like 6
    • Upvote 2

    Looks like Cyphophoenix nucele but I’m not 100%. 

    Tim Brisbane

    Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

    Rarely Frost

    2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

    2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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    • Like 3
    • Upvote 1

    Off the top of my head, Kentiopsis oliviformis.. but I need to look closer..

     

    Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

    "The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

    -George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

    I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

    • Like 1
    • Author
    7 hours ago, BS Man about Palms said:

    Off the top of my head, Kentiopsis oliviformis.. but I need to look closer..

     

    Thanks for chiming in!

    Close, but I'm pretty sure that's not it. I've got four ollies and they're all a much much darker green. And, none have hit the Big P yet. (Puberty.)

    That time you visited, you made a point of saying that it wasn't Cyphophoenix alba.

    If you need other angles, or a particular view, let me know.

    Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

    Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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    • Like 1
    • Author

    Climbed up on the roof

    And here’s the crown @BS Man about Palms

    CDBA8ED5-AC61-4FD3-AABE-A783D05CB4D5.thumb.jpeg.c936281bcbb0cdcf4a829638f5d21a69.jpeg
     

    And here’s a Kentiopsis Ollie 

    88C378ED-D3C5-458B-9C84-DD308E131D9F.thumb.jpeg.3f6e4518d409c071166212c0bcb7bf15.jpeg

     

    Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

    Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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    • Upvote 1

    The first set of photos look Cyphopheonix Nucele but the second to last shot almost looks like Burretiokentia Dumasii (at least color wise). The crown shaft kind of looks too clean for Dumasii but I have one from Josh that’s in full sun and it’s real upright with short petioles sort of like your first photos.
     

    Do the fronds open with any color? Either way it would rule out quite a few New Cal species. 

    • Upvote 1

    I'm sort of stumped Dave.  I would say that if it's not Cyphophoenix nucele, then it's not a New Cal Palm.  So my first thought was C nucele, but it has less tomentum on crown than mine, and the basal leaflet was bugging me.  I went and looked at my C nucele, which is about the same size, and the basal leaflet is fairly narrow, and just a single "V" attachment, but the basal leaflet on yours is like super fat with an accordion patterned connection (up down, up down, up down). It's basically several leaflets fused together. I can see this on all visible leaves on yours, whereas mine has no basal leaflets even remotely resembling that.  So maybe there is variability in C nucele (there is some variability in K oliviformis, so not totally insane). But I just looked at a LOT of New Cal palms and NONE had this fused basal leaflet.  It's clearly not C elegans, doesn't look at all like any Burretiokentia, or Chambeyronia, or cyphosperma, and way to big to be cyphokentia or any of the other more rare New Cal's.  So, I'm still stuck on either a weird variant of C nucele or it's not a New Cal palm at all.

    Matt

    San Diego

    0.6 Acres of a south facing, gently sloped dirt pile, soon to be impenetrable jungle

    East of Mount Soledad, in the biggest cold sink in San Diego County.

    Zone 10a (I hope), Sunset 24

    • Like 1
    • Upvote 1

    I’m more confident in saying C nucele after the second photo. The fused basal leaflets are a bit odd, but those kind of features can vary between specimens and could be the result of trying to squeeze through the canopy or minor nutrient deficiency. The trunk, crownshaft, inflorescence and fronds are just too much of a match for C nucele to be anything else in my opinion. 

    Tim Brisbane

    Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

    Rarely Frost

    2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

    2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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    • Upvote 1

    Stumped as well. Shouldn’t Nucele have ramenta on the underside of the leaflets?

    • Like 1
    22 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

    Looks like Cyphophoenix nucele but I’m not 100%. 

    I agree

    Glad I'm not the only one a bit mystified. Any "old pics" Dave?  I initially thought a Cyphophoenix elegans, if the leaf types are the ragged praemorse tips, I'd stick with that. If not ragged tips,    I'd agree with the nucele. Only thing is, from what I've seen, the elegans ease of growth in So Cal prevents very many large ones to be seen here. Elegans out grows the nucele 3 to 1 speedwise and planting success.
    Yet the one pic I can see with leaf ends fused looks like Dictyosperma.... but still..

    Then I thought Prestoea montana...  To me the crown looks too "round" for a Burretiokentia...

    Time to do a history memory test Dave!

    Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

    "The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

    -George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

    I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

    • Upvote 1

    Got a pic of the underside of a leaflet to show ramenta?

    • Upvote 1

    100% Cyphophoenix nucele. Flower match, plus you can see the reins. Only NewCal where it is so prominent. 

    Len

    Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

    Shadowridge Area

    "Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

    -- Alfred Austin

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    • Upvote 3
    • Author
    On 10/3/2023 at 11:22 PM, LJG said:

    100% Cyphophoenix nucele. Flower match, plus you can see the reins. Only NewCal where it is so prominent. 

    You’re the closest so far; gonna wait till the blossoms open and see what they look like. 

    Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

    Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.
    • Author

    Ooomph! Climbed up on the roof again.

    43C7B84F-6A90-4137-A0D1-E7C3D3F037C4.thumb.jpeg.3628350094dd38cc404b5f8c2378ba58.jpeg

    8EBCD55A-89F6-4524-8530-2490DB0B6E45.thumb.jpeg.245b35319475c5e36b3d818310ed190f.jpeg

    AE9F76AC-4888-40BB-8AD1-9AD018E0164B.thumb.jpeg.5bcb94754d3086ebef5460dfe2c664b4.jpeg

    9D4FFB4F-03AF-41C5-9332-B5647850AACA.thumb.jpeg.5d79ae57f4562921ec536e1d984cb0a2.jpeg

    Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

    Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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    • Like 1

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