Alternative to Turface (Mexico)

[Palmfarmer]

Looking online and I can't really find any at a somewhat reasonable price. 

What would be a good alternative to use for getting better CEC and water retention growing in Pumice? 

I see they sell expandable clay pellets for cheap, there is also something called Arcilla Potasica/ pottasium clay anyone know what that might be? 

I added a photo here of the pottasium clay: 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, Palmfarmer said:

Looking online and I can't really find any at a somewhat reasonable price. 

What would be a good alternative to use for getting better CEC and water retention growing in Pumice? 

I see they sell expandable clay pellets for cheap, there is also something called Arcilla Potasica/ pottasium clay anyone know what that might be? 

I added a photo here of the pottasium clay: 

 

If that is what the product is, you definitely don't want to use it.. will turn your " open " / " breathable " mix to sludge..  Same with any " expandable " clay product..


This is the only clay ..anything... you want to track down / use in your soil mix(es)..  Turface is just one of several brand-named products for Calcined Clay / other clay-based  amendment products used for Lawns, Baseball Fields, etc..  Is also called " Seramis " in  other countries. Same exact material, just a different name. Both  = Fired, " Calcined " Clay.  When fired, it won't break apart when wet which is what you want. 

 Turface  ( MVP.. )



Mixed w/ Pumice, and Granite-based Wash Grit



If Baseball is a popular enough sport there that there are fields for playing,  whomever maintains the fields probably uses Turface products / knows where to purchase them locally ..or some other brand name of the same product.

[Palmfarmer]

Thank you for great information again. Pretty sure I found it, could you confirm? 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

10 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

Thank you for great information again. Pretty sure I found it, could you confirm? 

 

That looks like the fine powder stuff used on Clay Tennis Courts ( as pictured ) Too fine for what you're aiming for.  Looking at the Mercado, there's a listing for the kind of calcined Clay product you want to use, but it looks like a small bag..  🤔 ..Is it really that expensive there as listed? ..can't recall what the $ conversion rate is between the U.S. and Mexico off the top of my head.





 

[Palmfarmer]

2 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

That looks like the fine powder stuff used on Clay Tennis Courts ( as pictured ) Too fine for what you're aiming for.  Looking at the Mercado, there's a listing for the kind of calcined Clay product you want to use, but it looks like a small bag..  🤔 ..Is it really that expensive there as listed? ..can't recall what the $ conversion rate is between the U.S. and Mexico off the top of my head.





 

Yes I have seen that but as you see very expensive. 105 dollars for that bag roughly. 

Imported gardening products are often 3x priced up. Good buisness if you live in a border town probably. 

I found Zeolite. Someone recommended that, perhaps a good alternative? 

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

Yes I have seen that but as you see very expensive. 105 dollars for that bag roughly. 

Imported gardening products are often 3x priced up. Good buisness if you live in a border town probably. 

I found Zeolite. Someone recommended that, perhaps a good alternative? 

$105.00 dollars for a small bag like that is pretty crazy..   Turface MVP is like $15-18.00/ 50lb bag here..  Someone could definitely make some money if they were able to import and sell Turface MVP there for sure..


That's ok, did a little surfing around the Mercado and found ..at least two types of plant seeds i wish i could get my hands on ( Don't think U.S. citizens can purchase from the Mercado.. I think??, lol )..

Zeolite could be an equal alternative..  If you can, i might buy a small amount to try out before going after larger amounts, ...just to be sure the grains don't break down ( like softer clay ) when wet.. Don't think it does,  but ..Guess i'll have to try some myself.. 

[Palmfarmer]

6 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

$105.00 dollars for a small bag like that is pretty crazy..   Turface MVP is like $15-18.00/ 50lb bag here..  Someone could definitely make some money if they were able to import and sell Turface MVP there for sure..


That's ok, did a little surfing around the Mercado and found ..at least two types of plant seeds i wish i could get my hands on ( Don't think U.S. citizens can purchase from the Mercado.. I think??, lol )..

Zeolite could be an equal alternative..  If you can, i might buy a small amount to try out before going after larger amounts, ...just to be sure the grains don't break down ( like softer clay ) when wet.. Don't think it does,  but ..Guess i'll have to try some myself.. 

Bought some zeolite and it said to mix 1/4 zeolite with your substrate. It sounds about right I will try. 

You certainly can buy stuff there. You don't even need a visa. I got credit there even. 

Just see if you can find a mail forwarding service or ask the seller under the Questions tab if he will ship to the us for some extra $

Exactly what did you find? 

[Silas_Sancona]

22 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

Bought some zeolite and it said to mix 1/4 zeolite with your substrate. It sounds about right I will try. 

You certainly can buy stuff there. You don't even need a visa. I got credit there even. 

Just see if you can find a mail forwarding service or ask the seller under the Questions tab if he will ship to the us for some extra $

Exactly what did you find? 

Interesting.. will have to talk w/ some folks here..

Nothing super special.. A type of Pinyon,   ...and a species of Morning Glory ( Ipomoea ) ..Roots of it are used in traditional medicine there.  More interested in it for ornamental / educational purposes.

[Palmfarmer]

32 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Interesting.. will have to talk w/ some folks here..

Nothing super special.. A type of Pinyon,   ...and a species of Morning Glory ( Ipomoea ) ..Roots of it are used in traditional medicine there.  More interested in it for ornamental / educational purposes.

I had no idea about that. I just know the seeds contain a Psychedelic drug called LSA. Does the roots do that as well? 

[Silas_Sancona]

8 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

I had no idea about that. I just know the seeds contain a Psychedelic drug called LSA. Does the roots do that as well? 

That i couldn't tell you, don't think so, but.... I know other Morning Glories have been miss-used for their Psychedelic properties, but not sure if this one ever was.

  In Mexico, the specific Ipomoea species is often referred to as " Tumbavaqueros " or " espantalobos ".. Supposedly used to treat Seizures and disorders of the Nervous system. No way to tell how true the claims are but has apparently been used for centuries there,  and there are on-going " modern " studies looking at how the specific beneficial chemicals work / any potential use as a future medication. . I'm more interested in it for the flowers / bushy,  non-vining habit / potential drought tolerance.

[Palmfarmer]

17 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

That i couldn't tell you, don't think so, but.... I know other Morning Glories have been miss-used for their Psychedelic properties, but not sure if this one ever was.

  In Mexico, the specific Ipomoea species is often referred to as " Tumbavaqueros " or " espantalobos ".. Supposedly used to treat Seizures and disorders of the Nervous system. No way to tell how true the claims are but has apparently been used for centuries there,  and there are on-going " modern " studies looking at how the specific beneficial chemicals work / any potential use as a future medication. . I'm more interested in it for the flowers / bushy,  non-vining habit / potential drought tolerance.

Very cool, I will look into that more. 

I got a question regarding another soil mix I am making. This is an acidic mix that consist of 50% peat 25% perlite and 25% Pumice. I want to use this one for some Trachycarpus and my blackberry bush. I am just thought about adding some biochar to it and I am wondering if adding an effective amount of biochar would neutrulize the PH. I like to keep it acidic since trachies and many berries thrive in a low ph. 

[Silas_Sancona]

35 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

Very cool, I will look into that more. 

I got a question regarding another soil mix I am making. This is an acidic mix that consist of 50% peat 25% perlite and 25% Pumice. I want to use this one for some Trachycarpus and my blackberry bush. I am just thought about adding some biochar to it and I am wondering if adding an effective amount of biochar would neutrulize the PH. I like to keep it acidic since trachies and many berries thrive in a low ph. 

Blackberries are pretty tough and  will grow in almost anything actually, though adding lots of organics makes for fuller / more productive plants of course..  A certain type of Blackberry grows wild all over coastal California / other areas of the U.S. .. Used to gather fruit from clumps of them growing next to a creek across the street from a house i'd lived in,  in San Jose.  Lots of scars from dealing w/ the thorns, lol.

Anyway, A handful or so of Biochar shouldn't effect the soil acidity / alkalinity much.. I myself might use something like compost ..say 30%..  and Peat Moss for the other 20% of the total ( 50% ) organic content of a soil mix for them..  25%  Perlite / Pumice ratio sounds good..

If you can grow them there, Blueberries definitely like very acidic soil ...Lots of Peat / compost for them.

[Palmfarmer]

16 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Blackberries are pretty tough and  will grow in almost anything actually, though adding lots of organics makes for fuller / more productive plants of course..  A certain type of Blackberry grows wild all over coastal California / other areas of the U.S. .. Used to gather fruit from clumps of them growing next to a creek across the street from a house i'd lived in,  in San Jose.  Lots of scars from dealing w/ the thorns, lol.

Anyway, A handful or so of Biochar shouldn't effect the soil acidity / alkalinity much.. I myself might use something like compost ..say 30%..  and Peat Moss for the other 20% of the total ( 50% ) organic content of a soil mix for them..  25%  Perlite / Pumice ratio sounds good..

If you can grow them there, Blueberries definitely like very acidic soil ...Lots of Peat / compost for them.

Thanks, yes I see they sell blueberries on Mercadolibre.

Next berries on the list is something similar to salmon berries. In Norway we got cloudberries/Rubus chamaemorus.

MIx those with some cream and you got the best desert ever. 

I did find some Rubus species that was similar to salmonberries, unfortunately it died due to neglect. 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

Thanks, yes I see they sell blueberries on Mercadolibre.

Next berries on the list is something similar to salmon berries. In Norway we got cloudberries/Rubus chamaemorus.

MIx those with some cream and you got the best desert ever. 

I did find some Rubus species that was similar to salmonberries, unfortunately it died due to neglect. 

Interesting   Norway to Mexico ..that's quite a change of ..everything.., lol..

Unless you're in a really cold part of Durango,  < If you haven't already >,  you might consider various fruit bearing members of the Eugenia genus / others that are near -related..  Cherry of the Rio Grande, Suriname Cherry ..both of which are quite hardy and pretty easy to grow;  ..Jaboticaba are pretty easy also, though kind of slow ..At least the Purple / Black-fruited varieties.  Some others can bear fruit faster / grow faster ( red fruited varieties ) then the Purple -fruited ones.. Fruit tastes like a really large Grape ..with a touch of something like Cinnamon and Vanilla ..At least to me..

Can be grown in large pots too if too risky in the ground.  Really good YT channel to check out  regarding Jaboticaba?  Flying Fox Fruits.. The owner is one of the most knowledgeable people on them also. Nice guy too.

As far as accessing seeds, you might check out the Tropical Fruit Forum website. There's a few members there in Mexico that distribute seed of various things both locally and world-wide..
 

[Palmfarmer]

Thanks, I got all the things in house now will pot up tomorrow and upload photos. 

Just a question I have one C.Elegangs and a C.Metallica. they need a repotting. Would stone mix be good for these as well? 

[Silas_Sancona]

13 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

Thanks, I got all the things in house now will pot up tomorrow and upload photos. 

Just a question I have one C.Elegangs and a C.Metallica. they need a repotting. Would stone mix be good for these as well? 

For Cham. elegans,  i'd probably provide a little more organics, compared to the " inorganic " /  "Mineral " ratio of the soil mix for it..

C. metallica are pretty tough and can stay in a pot for some time ( a couple years between stepping up to a bigger pot ..if not longer.. ) Pretty sure,  where they are native is rocky ( Limestone-based geology ) but being an understory species, there is a nice layer of  " duff " ( Duff = an accumulated layer of fallen / decomposing leaves that sits on top of the " mineral " layer of the overall soil ) 

..So, while a mix that contains a good amount of Pumice,  Calcined Clay / Zeolite,  ...and/ or small Lava rock ( is often referred to as  " Scoria " )  is fine,  add a good amount of Coco Peat ...and maybe some crushed up dried leaves to the soil mix too..

When i had mine, they were in this sort of mix and thrived. I only lost them because  i accidentally  left them outside where they got too much sun during the hottest / driest time of summer.  It and Chamadorea ernesti - augusti  are my top 1 and 2 small palms. Unique, tough,  and easy to grow.  Perfect in shade outdoors, or on a shaded patio / window that faces north or east indoors.

Hopefully, if you were able to acquire more than just one plant,  you'll get lucky and have both a male and female specimen so you'll have some seed to play around with / pass around to friends there in the future.. Easy to germinate, as i'm sure you have seen in past threads on the subject.