Pure Filifera or other type of palm ?

[MarcusH]

Went to the Riverwalk downtown and I couldn't keep my hands off the seeds . Are these pure Filiferas or is it another type of palm ? 

[jwitt]

Pure enough for me. 

Only concern I have would be the robusta around the block. 

Wide crown/spear is a plus!

Edited August 31, 2023 by jwitt

[MarcusH]

36 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Pure enough for me. 

Only concern I have would be the robusta around the block. 

Wide crown/spear is a plus!

Where do you see a Robusta?  These look all the same. 

[Dwarf Fan]

Column shaped trunk check, extra deeply cut fronds check, definitely a group of predominantly Filifera Washingtonia and possibly a PURE Filifera.

 Marcus how commonly do you run across groups or even a single Filifera that look this PURE around San Antonio? 

[jwitt]

2 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Where do you see a Robusta?  These look all the same. 

Street level, downtown has some surviving robusta, unless they removed them this summer. 

Not in the pic. 

In NM, "around the block" means 5 miles. 

Not saying those seeds "are" tainted, but they, or some of them,  "could be". 

Just a personal thing.....

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by jwitt
Could

[MarcusH]

52 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Street level, downtown has some surviving robusta, unless they removed them this summer. 

Not in the pic. 

In NM, "around the block" means 5 miles. 

Not saying those seeds "are" tainted, but they, or some of them,  "could be". 

Just a personal thing.....

 

Oh okay lol . Hey I grabbed like a large handful of seeds from two different trees in that group.  Those filiferas look old for the most part the trunk shows signs of age . 

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, Dwarf Fan said:

Column shaped trunk check, extra deeply cut fronds check, definitely a group of predominantly Filifera Washingtonia and possibly a PURE Filifera.

 Marcus how commonly do you run across groups or even a single Filifera that look this PURE around San Antonio? 

And from my observations little spines only at the beginning of the petioles.  To be honest SA is large but this is the second group of Filiferas that I know of in downtown . Palms here are planted very infrequently nothing compared to what you are used to in CC. 

[jwitt]

Spine and no spines, not definitive of the species, from research, and what I have seen. 

[jwitt]

Filifera

Robusta 60' foot tall

 

[Dwarf Fan]

3 hours ago, jwitt said:

Spine and no spines, not definitive of the species, from research, and what I have seen. 

This is good information right here I was noticing some that some Fillifera (which I personally think are hybrids) have more aggressive “shark teeth” some have “micro teeth” but generally PURE Robusta always have “shark teeth” I don’t recall ever seeing a PURE Robusta with “Micro Teeth” on the petiole.

[jwitt]

Teeth..........both species may or may not have them.

Robusta in the above pic have no teeth. 

Maybe they did when younger. 

 

This pic is a juvenile filifera in a native Grove(palm canyon, ca). Teeth and "coloring".  

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by jwitt

[MarcusH]

3 hours ago, jwitt said:

Teeth..........both species may or may not have them.

Robusta in the above pic have no teeth. 

Maybe they did when younger. 

 

This pic is a juvenile filifera in a native Grove(palm canyon, ca). Teeth and "coloring".  

 

Can they lose their teeth when they get older ? 

[jwitt]

I believe they can, but I can't say definitely.

I have not watched go from seedling to 40 years adult. 

My hunch is the teeth are to protect the heart(bud/spear) from predators when smaller and shorter.  They (can)outgrow this phase.  My hunch. 

That said, I can point to many adult filifera, hybrid, and robusta that are teethless or nearly so.

Edited September 1, 2023 by jwitt

[Tom in Tucson]

7 hours ago, jwitt said:

I believe they can, but I can't say definitely.

I have not watched go from seedling to 40 years adult. 

My hunch is the teeth are to protect the heart(bud/spear) from predators when smaller and shorter.  They (can)outgrow this phase.  My hunch. 

That said, I can point to many adult filifera, hybrid, and robusta that are teethless or nearly so.

The full grown palms (80-100ft.) from the various oasis locations I've seen in their native stands in CA develop toothless petioles. The shorter palms can be seen with fewer spines on the leaves as they mature. There is no indication that spines are ever shed.

Hi 89˚, Lo 73˚ Sep 1 - light showers

[jwitt]

16 hours ago, Tom in Tucson said:

The full grown palms (80-100ft.) from the various oasis locations I've seen in their native stands in CA develop toothless petioles. The shorter palms can be seen with fewer spines on the leaves as they mature. There is no indication that spines are ever shed.

Hi 89˚, Lo 73˚ Sep 1 - light showers

Not clear where I indicated any kind of shedding. 

I stated that they(filifera) can "outgrow" the spine(tooth) phase.  Meaning they can develop nearly toothless petioles.  Not shed. 

Sorry about any confusion concerning shedding. Looks like you confirmed that they can have teeth and develop into toothless with age.  Is that right?

[Tom in Tucson]

@MarcusHsaid "Can they lose their teeth when they get older ?"

You replied:"I believe they can, but I can't say definitely."

Hi 102˚, Lo 71˚

[jwitt]

Thanks for clearing it that up, yes they do lose their spines. 

Had a hunch, thanks!

Edited September 3, 2023 by jwitt

[Matt N- Dallas]

They are predominantly- leaning toward filifera traits, but there are hybrids and robustas in that area that could pollinate those.  

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

24 minutes ago, Matt N- Dallas said:

They are predominantly- leaning toward filifera traits, but there are hybrids and robustas in that area that could pollinate those.  

I agree they look like strong Filibusta to me. Mostly due to lacking of trunk girth at that size and the not as clean smooth trunk. This obviously isn't definitive but I wouldn't collect those seeds and expect to call them Pure Filifera. 

T J 

[MarcusH]

3 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

I agree they look like strong Filibusta to me. Mostly due to lacking of trunk girth at that size and the not as clean smooth trunk. This obviously isn't definitive but I wouldn't collect those seeds and expect to call them Pure Filifera. 

T J 

For Texas that's pretty close to pure Filifera since we don't have anything 100 percent pure over here.  You want something as pure as it gets you literally have to go all the way to California where they originally came from. The trunk is thick enough to me in my opinion I know pictures don't do the justice but the vast majority of chararistics are from a Filifera.  It's like the difference between a 911 Turbo S and 911 Turbo . They're both very similar in terms of performance. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

There are some (to me) pure Filifera in Texas City with no Robustas in sight for awhile. All of them have zero trunk harm over the years and survived Palmageddon with no defoliation. If I can figure out how to send a Google maps link you could tell me what you think. https://maps.app.goo.gl/RiWT569DFEc14UbM9

See if that works haha I'm not holding my breathe 

T J 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/qCueGf8TmxzXLC1W9

Also these are very much pure Filifera imo 

@MarcusH

@Xenon maybe you have seen these 

T J 

[MarcusH]

37 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/qCueGf8TmxzXLC1W9

Also these are very much pure Filifera imo 

@MarcusH

@Xenon maybe you have seen these 

T J 

We do have the same varient over here too . Let me look for pictures 

[MarcusH]

40 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

There are some (to me) pure Filifera in Texas City with no Robustas in sight for awhile. All of them have zero trunk harm over the years and survived Palmageddon with no defoliation. If I can figure out how to send a Google maps link you could tell me what you think. https://maps.app.goo.gl/RiWT569DFEc14UbM9

See if that works haha I'm not holding my breathe 

T J 

lol looking good to me but not as pure as you would probably see in California.  Met a very nice person from Southern California who told me that our Texas Filifera aren't exactly the same as the ones he's seen over there in Cali.  Close but not 100 percent.  Down the road it doesn't matter to me if the palm can handle our freezes and have looks of a Filifera I'm fine with it.  

[Xenon]

46 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

There are some (to me) pure Filifera in Texas City with no Robustas in sight for awhile. All of them have zero trunk harm over the years and survived Palmageddon with no defoliation. If I can figure out how to send a Google maps link you could tell me what you think. https://maps.app.goo.gl/RiWT569DFEc14UbM9

See if that works haha I'm not holding my breathe 

T J 

Yep, not super super common but run into them fairly often. The palms in the thread look mixed, which is a good thing anyways (faster growing but still plenty cold hardy). 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Xenon

[Xenon]

Here are some filifera near San Antonio, pic credit to Oscar C. 

Filifera in humid climates will have thinner trunks (and trunk decay on older palms from the humidity). San Antonio is a transitional area, these certainly look better than anything in the Houston Area. 

[MarcusH]

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

Here are some filifera near San Antonio, pic credit to Oscar C. 

Filifera in humid climates will have thinner trunks (and trunk decay on older palms from the humidity). San Antonio is a transitional area, these certainly look better than anything in the Houston Area. 

We do have "pure" Filiferas here in San Antonio here and there.  

[Tom in Tucson]

When @TexasColdHardyPalmswas still in business, I bought 2 W. filifera from him that he said were grown from a dependable source of wild CA palms. 1 croaked, but the other is doing OK. So the "real deal" he must have sold to other (maybe Palm Talk) people. In Texas too.

Hi 102˚, Lo 72˚

[Phoenikakias]

Also flowerstalks look a bit shorter than expected from a pure filifera.

[Swolte]

On 9/3/2023 at 10:07 PM, Tom in Tucson said:

When @TexasColdHardyPalmswas still in business, I bought 2 W. filifera from him that he said were grown from a dependable source of wild CA palms. 1 croaked, but the other is doing OK. So the "real deal" he must have sold to other (maybe Palm Talk) people. In Texas too.

I got one from him too. It survived all the freezes and droughts we had here so far. Can't blame it for not growing like a rocket with the neglect its being served but its alive and that's saying something.