first big palm order and it's progress

[flplantguy]

The freeze this past week did a bunch of damage in the yard but nothing fatal yet.  The Bentinkia died from crown rot likely caught during the rains in September and slowly doing damage over time until i realized why.  Below freezing for 9.5 hours with a low between 26 and 27.  The foxtails were unprotected and moderately damaged but should recover, as were the chrys. baronii (no damage), majesty (light to moderate damage), chambeyronias (minimal damage), adonidia (no NEW damage), teddy bear (light bronzing on old leaves), and any chrys. lutescens regardless of size (up to moderate damage on seedlings).  Covered and damaged was only the Chrysalidocarpus saintlucei, with heavy damage under a frost cover.  Its spear is green and it should recover but thats dissapointing.  Its the last photo, the rest are a bit out of order.  All other covered palms had minimal extra damage or none at all.  The adonidia is an odd result, i expected death.

[RiverCityRichard]

11 hours ago, flplantguy said:

The freeze this past week did a bunch of damage in the yard but nothing fatal yet.  The Bentinkia died from crown rot likely caught during the rains in September and slowly doing damage over time until i realized why.  Below freezing for 9.5 hours with a low between 26 and 27.  The foxtails were unprotected and moderately damaged but should recover, as were the chrys. baronii (no damage), majesty (light to moderate damage), chambeyronias (minimal damage), adonidia (no NEW damage), teddy bear (light bronzing on old leaves), and any chrys. lutescens regardless of size (up to moderate damage on seedlings).  Covered and damaged was only the Chrysalidocarpus saintlucei, with heavy damage under a frost cover.  Its spear is green and it should recover but thats dissapointing.  Its the last photo, the rest are a bit out of order.  All other covered palms had minimal extra damage or none at all.  The adonidia is an odd result, i expected death.

Honestly not bad for a 26f freeze! My Leptocheilos looks about the same from 33f with a very light frost. Glad to see Baronii has some toughness

[flplantguy]

1 hour ago, RiverCityRichard said:

Honestly not bad for a 26f freeze! My Leptocheilos looks about the same from 33f with a very light frost. Glad to see Baronii has some toughness

Idk if the two thermometers are correct or not, but them being so close together in temp means i should take it seriously so i was shocked when i woke up to that temp.  All the people in town were mentioning how shallow the cold air was (my words not theirs but its what they meant) so maybe thats why so little damage/death? If that was in early december i would have lost it all i think though.  The hard freeze time was not too long so that could be why; most of the 9.5 hours was about 31-32.  This area gets fast drops at sunup so the duration is not as horrible as it appears, multiple nights at 32-33 did nothing to any plant (even stuff like sweet potatoes that should be killed back were not completely, even at 26.6) except sanchezia which is a wimp. And under trees its even less damage, but i did see that the Hyophorbe indica i wrapped in a thick sheet under the dense tree canopy was still moderately damaged after a few warm days (its cousin, a bottle in front of it just on the canopy edge, was uncovered and has small spotting on one leaf less than ten feet from a thermometer).  I expect more to show once they need water and start metabolizing again, but i think the duration at hard freeze was low enough it only did light freeze level damage.

 

[flplantguy]

It has been a long time since i have posted, life got a little crazy and it got away from me.  Summer has been the biggest challenge so far with fungus, weird rain patterns, racoon attacks, and a heat wave.  Add in some fungicide side effects in a last ditch attempt to stop phytophthora, and the deaths were numerous.  Bad timing on a new order of palms contributed to the lessons learned, i will post some casualty stories soon too. 

Biggest takaway is palms from New Caledonia cannot handle average temps (over the course of a whole day) above 82 to 84, at that point heat stress kicks in, and if you have a fungus it rapidly kills, as will the heat damage from spraying with azoxystrobin (dont use that group of fungicides on palms). 

[flplantguy]

First offender was phytophthora, after two weeks of cloudy rainy weather (a first in 2 years) and heat it took hold in one palm and rapidly spread.  After treating and relocating the pic is the result, death is still likely but not assured yet on the survivors.  Deaths include Basselinia eriostachys 'drip tip' and B. Glabrata, with velutina and another eriostachys still having issues with heat.  It also spread into a new order of plants, after a racoon found some compost i was given and went crazy looking for food in all the pots.  Between the plants not being heat adapted yet and that disaster, many deaths resulted in the new group of plants.

the M. Darianii is also declining and almost dead from stress as well, it too doesnt tolerate average temps above 80 or so, regardless of water and food, nor does it like cooler weather.  It's like a diva that likes 65 at night and 85 during the day and no variation it seems. This is an older photo, its about dead now.  Beautiful when happy, but im not sure ill try again unless i master the two M. Insignis just next to it that are happy so far.

[mnorell]

6 minutes ago, flplantguy said:

It has been a long time since i have posted, life got a little crazy and it got away from me.  Summer has been the biggest challenge so far with fungus, weird rain patterns, racoon attacks, and a heat wave.  Add in some fungicide side effects in a last ditch attempt to stop phytophthora, and the deaths were numerous.  Bad timing on a new order of palms contributed to the lessons learned, i will post some casualty stories soon too. 

Biggest takaway is palms from New Caledonia cannot handle average temps (over the course of a whole day) above 82 to 84, at that point heat stress kicks in, and if you have a fungus it rapidly kills, as will the heat damage from spraying with azoxystrobin (dont use that group of fungicides on palms). 

Sorry to hear you've had a tough time...sometimes you have to take a deep breath and move on. Back on Big Pine Key when Irma (which hit us head on) destroyed the landscape, I just changed my tack (after a very expensive cleanup on our half-acre) and planted 80% material that survived in local gardens (or natives). And I wouldn't give up completely on the New Caledonian stuff, I was able to grow Cyphophoenix nucele in the Keys, though I put it in too much shade, and kept it too dry, so it was a bit slow. But it was killed by the hurricane (if I remember, torn out of the ground and swept away, as were many of my plants). Also Chambeyronia I think are capable of taking a lot of heat, I believe there are quite a few of those in Key West. You get significant winters north of Tampa, so I would think you'd have a lot of extra headroom (if you can keep the frost off of them) with some of the palms that just wouldn't deal with the constant warmth of the Keys.

[flplantguy]

8 minutes ago, mnorell said:

Sorry to hear you've had a tough time...sometimes you have to take a deep breath and move on. Back on Big Pine Key when Irma (which hit us head on) destroyed the landscape, I just changed my tack (after a very expensive cleanup on our half-acre) and planted 80% material that survived in local gardens (or natives). And I wouldn't give up completely on the New Caledonian stuff, I was able to grow Cyphophoenix nucele in the Keys, though I put it in too much shade, and kept it too dry, so it was a bit slow. But it was killed by the hurricane (if I remember, torn out of the ground and swept away, as were many of my plants). Also Chambeyronia I think are capable of taking a lot of heat, I believe there are quite a few of those in Key West. You get significant winters north of Tampa, so I would think you'd have a lot of extra headroom (if you can keep the frost off of them) with some of the palms that just wouldn't deal with the constant warmth of the Keys.

Outside the dead ones mentioned, the other NC types were damaged but doing well.  They had no damage at all until i sprayed to prevent the phytophthora and the heat set in after, it even damaged an Actinikentia that was flawless before, so i know not to use it again, but they should all recover outside of the photo of the ICU. There are a few Chrysalidocarpus that had water issues as well, that were always fussy and i may need to replace, but i think i stopped that on most. 

The second lesson was pot them drier than it seems and higher than most, the humidity here is always above 60% in summer (and usually even in winter) so those that were too low did not like it much.  The garden plants with exposed roots are fine too, so ill be adjusting that as needed. I'm changing the base potting mix to compensate and keep it a bit drier, as well as repotting if needed to raise heels.  I think a light adjustment to the sand is all i will need to keep them fed at planting, and sensitive ones will grow in the ground in the greenhouse as planned.  I do have really happy plants too that i will post later. Bad news first lol

[happypalms]

I get a lot of plants mail order and send a lot of plants mail order. And if packaged correctly they last a lot longer in transit. You can tell straight away if it’s been packed correctly and if do it certainly helps in plant health. If I buy from a seller and it arrives in good condition I will it again from that seller. I once had a plant turn up completely soaked and in garden soil the container was so heavy I just looked at and put that plant aside basically to die and it did die, the seller lost a customer. 

[flplantguy]

2 hours ago, happypalms said:

I get a lot of plants mail order and send a lot of plants mail order. And if packaged correctly they last a lot longer in transit. You can tell straight away if it’s been packed correctly and if do it certainly helps in plant health. If I buy from a seller and it arrives in good condition I will it again from that seller. I once had a plant turn up completely soaked and in garden soil the container was so heavy I just looked at and put that plant aside basically to die and it did die, the seller lost a customer. 

I think the issue was all after arrival here, they arrive flawless every time so i stick with what i know in that regard, and local plants i can see too.  I'll leave them in the pots longer even if they seem to need potting up too so it lowers stress. 

Im weary of ebay for that reason you mentioned, but i have found orchids that way, and its the better way to find rare cool stuff, so ill give it a try once im more experienced with the finer details of growing them.  Lost the M. darianii as well, but it "died" a while back i think. I may try again if the insignis do well and i master the soil mixes for my area.

[happypalms]

7 minutes ago, flplantguy said:

I think the issue was all after arrival here, they arrive flawless every time so i stick with what i know in that regard, and local plants i can see too.  I'll leave them in the pots longer even if they seem to need potting up too so it lowers stress. 

Im weary of ebay for that reason you mentioned, but i have found orchids that way, and its the better way to find rare cool stuff, so ill give it a try once im more experienced with the finer details of growing them.  Lost the M. darianii as well, but it "died" a while back i think. I may try again if the insignis do well and i master the soil mixes for my area.

If they are hard rooted they stand a much better chance in spring and summer with being introduced to there new climate. The plants I get from cairns in the tropical climate néed to acclimatised to the cool subtropical conditions. There is a cut off point in which  I stop buying tropical grown plants due to winter coming. Barr rooted are at a little risk of transplant shock, some palms take it better than others. And dome palms are doomed from the get go, try try as you must with some  variety’s as I do, you eventually give up trying and soon work out. 

[Merlyn]

@flplantguy some plants are just finicky, especially in the Floriduh summer swelter.  I do know a few that do fine until June and tyen die from fungal infection or other blights, regardless of how amazingly attentive you are.  There are a few Dypsis/Chrysalidocarpus that do great in CA but wither and die in FL.  Off the top of my head I don't know for sure which ones.  I can say that I've had good luck so far with all three Cyphophoenix species.

[flplantguy]

I'm making a list of the deaths and why, so i don't bother getting a replacement plant that was climate related death. The small ones that got infected were on weed matt, but close to the edge where sand splashed up into the crowns.  I found that when i did some digging on them cleaning up dead tissue. Orchids are the same way, splashback into the crown can lead to infection, so i think that was the major issue this time.  Last two years they were under trees on mulch, so no splash back then. 

There are a few of the chrysalidocarpus that are dead or unhappy that i had not mentioned, as its obvious that july and august here in my yard are a bit too hot for them. BUT the new dicipiens seedlings are all pushing growth somewhat rapidly (compared to what i would expect) under shade and cover from heavy rains.  I planted high so the roots are very slightly exposed and that seems to be good for them.

I also plan to use more gritty mix and less coir in the future, since a common theme is being native to slopes in their native environments and i can mimick that drainage with the sand. If they tiller down or root deep then they will be fine with the drainage, as long as i provide better nutrition through additives like biochar and turface/zeolite type materials at the surface.  I have tree canopy and organics covered so that would complete the balancing act of drainage and moisture. Combine that with the excessive humidity here, and i think that will perform better than classic potting mix or added organics that are breaking down too fast. 

A couple happy plants here, a Chrysalidocarpus 'moyotte island" that handles full florida sun early (i moved it for the pic), and a Cocothrinax borhidiana thats taking off (for its size) in the heat.  The lutescens type Chrysalidocarpus are happy also, except the baronii thats getting too much late day sun i think. Teddy bear, spindles, and the bottle are fantastic, and most freeze damaged plants are growing out of it nicely. Too rainy to get more pics now though.