Why do some seedlings die and the rest are fine?

[Hardypalms]

I just wonder when the conditions are the same, they reach like 7-8 inches and one or two die when the other 15 flourish.

It’s not always but does happen for no apparent reason.

I could see a whole batch of like 15 just wilter away and die. I would assume conditions were not right but 1 when the other 9 in the same pot flourish always amazes me.

I grow all types of seedlings for fun so species does not matter.

It’s just weird.

Thxs

Pat

Edited August 11, 2023 by Hardypalms
Typo

[TheMadScientist]

I could write a post that might use up all the memory.  Mother Nature is NOT as easy to solve as I found working on aircraft that I worked on while at Lockheed.  I have seedling death as individuals all the way to my worse nightmare where I got 100% germination, perfect growth for 8 months and then the LEFT COAST WEATHERMEN got it all wrong near Christmas, off by 7 deg. F.  These were H. Versch. (spindle) that should have been good to 30 deg. F, I thought I only got to 33 deg. F and still rushed all of them into my racecar trailer......BUT SEEDLINGS ARE MORE SENSITIVE.  100% DEAD IN THE MORNING.

Most seedlings can't take direct sun, here I struggle with too much vs. not enough water.  All well draining soil mix, all containers with up to 5 drain holes.  Some species have less developing root systems and die from that.  Here, humidity can be around 10% often.  Let me just say, SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST does exist.

[James B]

Only the strong survive…

[Hardypalms]

1 hour ago, TheMadScientist said:

 

Most seedlings can't take direct sun, here

Even though they are somewhat sheltered under a overhang, i did not know this.

Thxs

Pat

[BS Man about Palms]

3 hours ago, James B said:

Only the strong survive…

That's what I default to. Mother nature is trying to propagate and continue on.  Through observation I have noted the more seed a palm generates, the higher the die off rate is, if they only produce fewer seeds, the survival rate is higher.  Not always true, but pretty close.
 

I remember Jeff Marcus years back saying that if ALL the seeds of a prestoniana bract germinated and grew to size, he could supply the world! 

[Looking Glass]

5 hours ago, Hardypalms said:

I just wonder when the conditions are the same, they reach like 7-8 inches and one or two die when the other 15 flourish.

It’s not always but does happen for no apparent reason.

I could see a whole batch of like 15 just wilter away and die. I would assume conditions were not right but 1 when the other 9 in the same pot flourish always amazes me.

I grow all types of seedlings for fun so species does not matter.

It’s just weird.

Thxs

Pat

It’s the conundrum you see in biological sciences with open systems, versus let’s say computer science, math or engineering - where 2+2 always equals 4.   You’ll see brilliant computer scientists and engineers having great difficulty understanding the practical practice of medicine, horticulture, agriculture, and animal husbandry, due to the reality that there are variable outputs from the seemingly same input sometimes.   This does not compute, to certain brain types.  

Rest assured though, you are doing better than Mother Nature, where 1,000s of palm seeds drop year after year after year, to produce just a couple of adults.  

Slight variability in genetic code seems to account for a lot.   Also, a few points on the temp or humidity, plus a few stray fungal spores or mites or mealies, the air circulation in that corner that week, the position of the sun along its elliptic, that sand they had to get rid of at the soil mixing plant, what the fish ate that fertilized the ocean kelp who’s extract you used for the organic fertilizer, that rubber gasket in your irrigation system that’s been wearing over the years…..  and then there’s the complicated stuff.

It’s why there is a lot of “art” to certain sciences, and perhaps why every batch of seedlings doesn’t turn out perfect every time. 

[flplantguy]

6 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

It’s the conundrum you see in biological sciences with open systems, versus let’s say computer science, math or engineering - where 2+2 always equals 4.   You’ll see brilliant computer scientists and engineers having great difficulty understanding the practical practice of medicine, horticulture, agriculture, and animal husbandry, due to the reality that there are variable outputs from the seemingly same input sometimes.   This does not compute, to certain brain types.  

Rest assured though, you are doing better than Mother Nature, where 1,000s of palm seeds drop year after year after year, to produce just a couple of adults.  

Slight variability in genetic code seems to account for a lot.   Also, a few points on the temp or humidity, plus a few stray fungal spores or mites or mealies, the air circulation in that corner that week, the position of the sun along its elliptic, that sand they had to get rid of at the soil mixing plant, what the fish ate that fertilized the ocean kelp who’s extract you used for the organic fertilizer, that rubber gasket in your irrigation system that’s been wearing over the years…..  and then there’s the complicated stuff.

It’s why there is a lot of “art” to certain sciences, and perhaps why every batch of seedlings doesn’t turn out perfect every time. 

Love this!  It explains why my mindset works for plants, music, art, and science. But not math lol

[Darold Petty]

10 hours ago, BS Man about Palms said:

I remember Jeff Marcus years back saying that if ALL the seeds of a prestoniana bract germinated and grew to size, he could supply the world! 

My Rhopalostylis palms produce thousands of seeds.  All that is necessary to maintain the species is for ONE seed to achieve reproductive status.   If two seeds survived the population would grow exponentially,  and New Zealand would sink beneath the weight !

I believe that many seedlings expire due to overwatering,  if you have fungus gnats,   they are a certain sign of excessive moisture in the medium.

 

[PalmatierMeg]

As with all living things some offspring survive and some do not. That may have to do with genetic anomalies or even bad luck. Sometimes palm seedlings will germinate but be unable to produce chlorophyll to feed themselves, i.e., they are albinos. They are doomed no matter what you do. When I get one I don’t compost it right away but let it grow off the nourishment from its seed until it fades away. Call me a softy. Why did that one seed from a normal parent produce a defective, doomed palm? Something went wrong with its genetics. Other genes might make a plant more attractive to pests or prone to disease.

I have a blind orange and white tabby cat. He is a rescue so I know little about his background. He is also subject to allergies that affect his neck, ears and face and must take daily medication. Tommy is a mess but he is a sweet, gentle soul and our mess. I assume he is the progeny of two somewhat normal cats but he was born this way - seriously faulty genetics. Logically, he should never have survived past birth - Nature does not tolerate genetic weakness. But with fortuitous human intervention he has made it through 10-11 years of life.