Needle Palm Zone 6b/7a Massachusetts

[MAPalms]

Hello everyone! I am new to this forum, and have recently ordered a three gallon Needle Palm from Northeast Ohio Palm Trees. Any advice for growing in zone 6b/7a Massachusetts?

[Allen]

Welcome to the forum and nice palm!

- Full Sun

- South Side of House

- Leave room to grow, put 4' or more from walkways, etc as over time they can get big.  use filler plants while it's growing around it if need be

- Consider protecting with overhead dry cover 1st winter if possible

Edited June 21, 2023 by Allen

[SeanK]

  On 6/21/2023 at 8:03 PM, Allen said:

Welcome to the forum and nice palm!

- Full Sun

- South Side of House

- Leave room to grow, put 4' or more from walkways, etc as over time they can get big.  use filler plants while it's growing around it if need be

- Consider protecting with overhead dry cover 1st winter if possible

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Agreed. And be careful with winter salt

[GregVirginia7]

Great choice for your zone…I’ve found my Needles to be perfect candidates here in a Northern Virginia zone 7 climate and I read they tolerate even colder zones…follow @Allen’s advise…when you plant it, DON’T mess with the roots…take the soil you dig out and break it up real good…fill the planted whole half full with the dirt, water in real well, finish filling with dirt when the water drains out and water in well again…use a watering can to water…I have a 1 gal. one I use, that way you know how much water you used. For newly planted palms, I find the watering can to be best. Happy growing!

[Robynk]

I live not too far from you on the Cape in Yarmouth.  Even with the day of extreme cold, my needle palm is doing fine - spear pulled but new spear is coming up, palm is still green otherwise, pushing out new growth in smaller fronds coming up from soil.  Sabal minor experienced about 30% leaf burn, no spear pull, pushing up new growth.  4 Trachys planted, 2 spear pulled, all defoliated from that one cold day, but all are pushing up new growth now.  Covered with burlap and frost cloth for three days in early February only; temp dropped below 0 for about eight hours, low in my yard of -4f.

 

I think these were all purchased from NE Ohio as well

Edited June 25, 2023 by Robynk

[Robynk]

Pics

[MAPalms]

Thank you for all the help everyone! I finally got it in the ground. 

 

Do you think the marks in the bottom pictures will be a problem? If it is, what should I do to stop it from spreading?

[Leelanau Palms]

Thanks for the pictures. Exciting! Do you have any updated pictures for us? I purchased a needle palm from NE Ohio Palms, which developed similar older leaf changes after repotting and coming indoors. I reached out to NE Ohio Palms with pictures. They indicated that it was a natural part of establishment (planting shock/root disturbance) where the resources from older leaves are sacrificed by the plant to grow.  Just passing that along.

 

[MAPalms]

  On 12/16/2023 at 7:57 PM, Leelanau Palms said:

Thanks for the pictures. Exciting! Do you have any updated pictures for us? I purchased a needle palm from NE Ohio Palms, which developed similar older leaf changes after repotting and coming indoors. I reached out to NE Ohio Palms with pictures. They indicated that it was a natural part of establishment (planting shock/root disturbance) where the resources from older leaves are sacrificed by the plant to grow.  Just passing that along.

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Thank you. I was definitely wondering what was going with it and starting to worry a bit. Good to know. Here’s a more updated pic. I can upload some more detailed pics tomorrow.

[Leelanau Palms]

Thanks for the picture. Palm looks good. Are you planning any winter protection for your needle?

[MAPalms]

Not right now, but I’ll see what happens in the future. I don’t think these temps are enough to hurt a needle palm. If anything happens, I have the materials to protect it.

[Allen]

  On 12/18/2023 at 9:17 PM, MAPalms said:

Not right now, but I’ll see what happens in the future. I don’t think these temps are enough to hurt a needle palm. If anything happens, I have the materials to protect it.

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Freezing wet temps under 21F it is advisable to dry protect the palm for a couple winters to avoid losing the main trunk. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Allen

[MAPalms]

  On 12/18/2023 at 10:41 PM, Allen said:

Freezing wet temps under 21F it is advisable to dry protect the palm for a couple winters to avoid losing the main trunk. 

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Ok, thanks. If it gets damaged, how will I know? Also, what is dry protection?

[Allen]

  On 12/18/2023 at 11:35 PM, MAPalms said:

Ok, thanks. If it gets damaged, how will I know? Also, what is dry protection?

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Freezing rain in the spear area can cause spear pull on small needles and it is possible to lose the main trunk.  The spear might or might not regrow.  When you have a small needle with 1 large prominent trunk like yours then losing it could be a bummer.  Dry cover means keeping it dry all winter with a structure like frost cloth sides and a solid top during Late Dec/Jan/Feb 

[Las Palmas Norte]

  On 12/18/2023 at 10:41 PM, Allen said:

Freezing wet temps under 21F it is advisable to dry protect the palm for a couple winters to avoid losing the main trunk. 

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I lost the main trunk on mine. Had I known about this, things would be different today. I'd wager that method can be said for a number of palms. New planted Chamaerops comes to mind. 

[Las Palmas Norte]

  On 12/18/2023 at 11:53 PM, Allen said:

Freezing rain in the spear area can cause spear pull on small needles and it is possible to lose the main trunk. ...

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That's exactly what happened to mine, and heard that same fate from others as well. I know that Chamearops humilis reacts similarly depending on the severity of the winter. I grew enough of these to know that all they needed was an overhead canopy for the first several years so the palm could acclimate to it's new environment. It should have dawned on me that R. hystrix would need the same care. This, is relative to my zone 8 PNW climate.

The palm has lost it's main trunk, but the off-sets have done well. There's even been some, albeit slow, autumn growth.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Las Palmas Norte

[BigBilly]

  On 12/18/2023 at 10:41 PM, Allen said:

Freezing wet temps under 21F it is advisable to dry protect the palm for a couple winters to avoid losing the main trunk. 

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Does that happen with Regular Rain too ?

[MAPalms]

  On 12/18/2023 at 11:53 PM, Allen said:

Freezing rain in the spear area can cause spear pull on small needles and it is possible to lose the main trunk.  The spear might or might not regrow.  When you have a small needle with 1 large prominent trunk like yours then losing it could be a bummer.  Dry cover means keeping it dry all winter with a structure like frost cloth sides and a solid top during Late Dec/Jan/Feb 

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I also saw your recent YouTube video. Thanks for the help. Should this be permanent throughout the winter, or can I take it off on sunny and warm days? The way it’s been going we get 9 or 10 warm days for every day with a low 21F or under. Also, my palm is still growing. Should it be dormant right now? Three new spears since early November. Lastly, should I cut off the old leaves that look like the second picture?  

[Allen]

  On 12/23/2023 at 4:25 PM, MAPalms said:

I also saw your recent YouTube video. Thanks for the help. Should this be permanent throughout the winter, or can I take it off on sunny and warm days? The way it’s been going we get 9 or 10 warm days for every day with a low 21F or under. Also, my palm is still growing. Should it be dormant right now? Three new spears since early November. Lastly, should I cut off the old leaves that look like the second picture?  

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If it were me I'd wait till I saw some temps under 21F on the forecast with wet weather then beforehand put up a little cattle wire/chicken wire fence with frost cloth around it and a solid top or 4 wooden posts with frost cloth stapled to it and a solid top and leave on till Approx. 1st of March or when forecast looks good.  Up to you if you want to take off/on but palm will be pretty dormant and it will make little difference.   I'd leave old fronds until they turn completely brown.   Make sure it's a breathable enclosure on sides with a top capable of handling snow.    The frost cloth will keep moisture out if the sides are straight up and down.  Take a wrap of frost cloth on inside and tie up fronds with it if you need to.  

Edited December 23, 2023 by Allen

[Las Palmas Norte]

  On 12/21/2023 at 9:14 PM, BigBilly said:

Regular Rain

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Sorry, but what is "regular rain"?

[BigBilly]

  On 12/23/2023 at 5:34 PM, Las Palmas Norte said:

Sorry, but what is "regular rain"?

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Sorry lol, Like just rain. that's not freezing rain or snow or sleet or anything. I was just wondering if I need to protect it from rain also. 

[Allen]

  On 12/23/2023 at 6:10 PM, BigBilly said:

Sorry lol, Like just rain. that's not freezing rain or snow or sleet or anything. I was just wondering if I need to protect it from rain also. 

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No

[L.A.M.]

  On 6/21/2023 at 8:03 PM, Allen said:

Welcome to the forum and nice palm!

- Full Sun

- South Side of House

- Leave room to grow, put 4' or more from walkways, etc as over time they can get big.  use filler plants while it's growing around it if need be

- Consider protecting with overhead dry cover 1st winter if possible

Expand  

I disagree. Planting a marginal plant, whether cold- or heat-wise, in full sun in a wind-sheltered location is terrible advice from my experience. My yard gets several degrees colder on winter nights that aren't especially windy than the surrounding areas and is also prone to getting hotter during a sunny day (especially during summer when it can be like ten degrees hotter) if there's not a south wind to dissipate it.

I planted my needle palm under a northern sugar maple tree along the southern side of a fencerow. As such, it basically gets full sun during winter but will still be sheltered from overhead frost, and during summer it basically gets full shade except very briefly right before sunset. That also means nothing else except moss, common blue violets, Christmas ferns and a few Virginia creeper vines are already growing there because it's just too shady during the actual growing season. Furthermore, my yard is the hostile radiation-dominated and wind-sheltered microclimate mentioned above, so the immediate coastal areas of the Northern Mid-Atlantic and Southern New England should have pretty similar winter climates to my yard's microclimate (but with less hot summers and without the very warm springs and autumns).

Anyways, dear OP, good luck on that needle palm! If southern magnolias can flourish in Boston, needle palms probably can too. My needle palm actually took no cold damage whatsoever when it dropped to -2 degrees Fahrenheit in December 2022 then didn't get above 2 that afternoon, even though most of my southern magnolia's leaves turned bronze from that same cold wave.

[Allen]

  On 12/24/2023 at 2:57 PM, L.A.M. said:

I disagree. Planting a marginal plant, whether cold- or heat-wise, in full sun in a wind-sheltered location is terrible advice from my experience. My yard gets several degrees colder on winter nights that aren't especially windy than the surrounding areas and is also prone to getting hotter during a sunny day (especially during summer when it can be like ten degrees hotter) if there's not a south wind to dissipate it.

I planted my needle palm under a northern sugar maple tree along the southern side of a fencerow. As such, it basically gets full sun during winter but will still be sheltered from overhead frost, and during summer it basically gets full shade except very briefly right before sunset. That also means nothing else except moss, common blue violets, Christmas ferns and a few Virginia creeper vines are already growing there because it's just too shady during the actual growing season. Furthermore, my yard is the hostile radiation-dominated and wind-sheltered microclimate mentioned above, so the immediate coastal areas of the Northern Mid-Atlantic and Southern New England should have pretty similar winter climates to my yard's microclimate (but with less hot summers and without the very warm springs and autumns).

Anyways, dear OP, good luck on that needle palm! If southern magnolias can flourish in Boston, needle palms probably can too. My needle palm actually took no cold damage whatsoever when it dropped to -2 degrees Fahrenheit in December 2022 then didn't get above 2 that afternoon, even though most of my southern magnolia's leaves turned bronze from that same cold wave.

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Here in TN the biggest ones are out in the yard in full sun with plenty of room.  Those palms will grow much larger than ones planted in summer shade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBQMuu1KQ8s&t=7m14s

 

[L.A.M.]

  On 12/24/2023 at 3:13 PM, Allen said:

Here in TN the biggest ones are out in the yard in full sun with plenty of room.  Those palms will grow much larger than ones planted in summer shade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBQMuu1KQ8s&t=7m14s

 

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That's true. Those in shade tend to grow slower but be more cold-hardy.

[Allen]

  On 12/24/2023 at 3:31 PM, L.A.M. said:

That's true. Those in shade tend to grow slower but be more cold-hardy.

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Slow growing palms have the spear area damaged and do not grow out of it fast enough to overcome the resulting fungus in these colder areas.  That is the number #1 killer of Trachycarpus and Needles here.  

[Will]

  On 6/21/2023 at 8:03 PM, Allen said:

Welcome to the forum and nice palm!

- Full Sun

- South Side of House

- Leave room to grow, put 4' or more from walkways, etc as over time they can get big.  use filler plants while it's growing around it if need be

- Consider protecting with overhead dry cover 1st winter if possible

Expand  

Weird, people in Europe recommend shade since in full sun they can look yellowish 

[Allen]

  On 12/24/2023 at 7:10 PM, Will said:

Weird, people in Europe recommend shade since in full sun they can look yellowish 

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Mine in full sun are perfectly shiny green maybe others can chime in.  Sure if you're in a very hot climate or you don't mind the palm growing slow go ahead.

[coco305]

would be interesting to see what you can grow out on cape cod. I think its more temperate than other locations. 

Maybe a canary islands date could survive there.

[MAPalms]

  On 12/23/2023 at 4:37 PM, Allen said:

If it were me I'd wait till I saw some temps under 21F on the forecast with wet weather then beforehand put up a little cattle wire/chicken wire fence with frost cloth around it and a solid top or 4 wooden posts with frost cloth stapled to it and a solid top and leave on till Approx. 1st of March or when forecast looks good.  Up to you if you want to take off/on but palm will be pretty dormant and it will make little difference.   I'd leave old fronds until they turn completely brown.   Make sure it's a breathable enclosure on sides with a top capable of handling snow.    The frost cloth will keep moisture out if the sides are straight up and down.  Take a wrap of frost cloth on inside and tie up fronds with it if you need to.

Expand  

Ok, thanks again for the help. 

[Will]

  On 12/24/2023 at 9:09 PM, Allen said:

Mine in full sun are perfectly shiny green maybe others can chime in.  Sure if you're in a very hot climate or you don't mind the palm growing slow go ahead.

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Hm might be the precipitation then. You have almost 4 times we have. Maybe they are doing fine in heat with enough water. Might also try it

[Colin1110082]

I’m hoping to try the same thing in 6A northern Massachusetts. The south side of my house is wind protected in almost every direction besides the west. It gets moderate sunlight, maybe around 6 hours I would think?

I would probably box it up maybe around thanksgiving and take it off in march or april. Today we had 40 degrees and rain. On a day like today I would probably keep the box on since I heard that needles can get sick from trapped water in the spear? Any day maybe 30-35 degrees fahrenheit+ I might unbox.  I know I am definitely planting Yucca, Needle, Sabal minor. My yard is pretty bland and needs decorating. Might do trachy fortunei or washingtonia robusta. I saw someone do a youtube video about the two and they said robusta was better because trachies get damaged easily and are easier to cover. The cover situation I mentioned above would be the same for all palms I get. Would I need to do a better job protecting needle from rain? Looking forward to the spring to see how this goes, going to be a fun experiment  

[MAPalms]

  On 12/24/2023 at 2:57 PM, L.A.M. said:

Furthermore, my yard is the hostile radiation-dominated and wind-sheltered microclimate mentioned above, so the immediate coastal areas of the Northern Mid-Atlantic and Southern New England should have pretty similar winter climates to my yard's microclimate (but with less hot summers and without the very warm springs and autumns).

Anyways, dear OP, good luck on that needle palm! If southern magnolias can flourish in Boston, needle palms probably can too. My needle palm actually took no cold damage whatsoever when it dropped to -2 degrees Fahrenheit in December 2022 then didn't get above 2 that afternoon, even though most of my southern magnolia's leaves turned bronze from that same cold wave.

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Thanks! What zone are you? How big is your needle palm?

[MAPalms]

  On 12/26/2023 at 2:28 AM, Colin1110082 said:

I’m hoping to try the same thing in 6A northern Massachusetts. The south side of my house is wind protected in almost every direction besides the west. It gets moderate sunlight, maybe around 6 hours I would think?

I would probably box it up maybe around thanksgiving and take it off in march or april. Today we had 40 degrees and rain. On a day like today I would probably keep the box on since I heard that needles can get sick from trapped water in the spear? Any day maybe 30-35 degrees fahrenheit+ I might unbox.  I know I am definitely planting Yucca, Needle, Sabal minor. My yard is pretty bland and needs decorating. Might do trachy fortunei or washingtonia robusta. I saw someone do a youtube video about the two and they said robusta was better because trachies get damaged easily and are easier to cover. The cover situation I mentioned above would be the same for all palms I get. Would I need to do a better job protecting needle from rain? Looking forward to the spring to see how this goes, going to be a fun experiment  

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I’m no expert, but I think the protection for a needle palm from water is more about snow than rain. Monday in southern MA was high 50s and sunny. When boxing a palm, be careful to keep the humidity low, so as not to promote fungus. If you decide to use heating, be careful to not burn your palm. Good luck!

[L.A.M.]

  On 12/29/2023 at 3:59 PM, MAPalms said:

Thanks! What zone are you? How big is your needle palm?

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It's about two feet tall and wide, so it still looks like a normal palm scaled down. I was in Zone 6b in 1990 but moderately near the 6a border, 7a in 2012 somewhat near the 6b border and 7b in 2023 very near the 7a border. I'm probably 7a for all intents and purposes due to elevation and microclimate even in 2023 (the resolution doesn't catch the small ridges here) but was still likely narrowly a true 7a in 2012 and 6b in 1990 in the general area (though the microclimate probably still made me narrowly effectively 6b and 6a respectively). I planted in April 2019. Nonetheless, it tends to warm up during the day here more in winter (which also prevents the soil from freezing during cold waves) and be warmer both day and night in spring, summer and autumn, so my overall climate is likely more favorable than Mid-Atlantic/New England areas nominally in the same zone.

Edited December 29, 2023 by L.A.M.