Beccariophoenix alfredii question…

[orlandozone9b]

I just installed this palm this weekend. It was a 65 gallon. I’m in zone 9b Orlando. 
 

My question is has anyone seen a cold hardy coconut like this that has reached maturity or close to it in the state of FL? 
 

I honestly can’t even find pictures of any outside of Madagascar that are 40-50ft.

Also, any idea how large this palm will be in 5, 10, and 15 years?

 

thanks in advance!

[RedRabbit]

You should check out this thread:

I like where you sited your BA. They love the sun so yours should do well out in the open like that.

Edited May 29, 2023 by RedRabbit

[D Palm]

It is hard to tell with the shadows, but if the mulch is against the trunk it will cause rot. Pull it away some to allow airflow. 

I had some smaller ones that died at 24F with a packing blanket over them. You should be fine in Orlando though.

[NickJames]

3 hours ago, orlandozone9b said:

I just installed this palm this weekend. It was a 65 gallon. I’m in zone 9b Orlando. 
 

My question is has anyone seen a cold hardy coconut like this that has reached maturity or close to it in the state of FL? 
 

I honestly can’t even find pictures of any outside of Madagascar that are 40-50ft.

Also, any idea how large this palm will be in 5, 10, and 15 years?

 

thanks in advance!

Where did you get it?

[Looking Glass]

I snapped this one from Searle Brothers a couple of years back…. I’ve posted the pic a few times before.  10-12 years old perhaps?  There are some mature ones in Florida here and there.  

Edited May 29, 2023 by Looking Glass

[PalmsandLiszt]

8 hours ago, orlandozone9b said:

I honestly can’t even find pictures of any outside of Madagascar that are 40-50ft.

It was only described in 2007. No doubt the 50ft ones will look much the same in FL as they do in Madagascar; they just don't exist yet.

[Alberto]

Mine is 16 yo from seed. Another one in shade is smaller.

 

 

[Alberto]

3 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

I snapped this one from Searle Brothers a couple of years back…. I’ve posted the pic a few times before.  10-12 years old perhaps?  There are some mature ones in Florida here and there.  

I remember this palm when we visited Searle Brothers at the Biennial in Florida. Very nice.

[Alberto]

Here is another alfredi, 16 year old from seed.

[Alberto]

And this is also from the same batch, but planted on a "warmer" spot, but in the shade of the araucaria forest. ( in full shade the whole winter)

[Fishinsteeg234]

Here’s a pic I snapped about a month ago at MB Palms’ open house event in Orlando. The owner Mike said these are about 12 years old in ground, planted from 30 gallon container size. He also mentioned these were from the original seed batch. They’re spaced roughly 10-12 feet apart trunk to trunk. 

[Bill H2DB]

Here's my larger one . Pic taken this morning .  Approx. 15' to the top of the spike .

In ground about 5 years from a 10 gallon or so pot . 

[sonoranfans]

My largest is 13 years in the ground come september 2023.  It was planted as a 3 gallon just going pinnate. at the end of august/early sept 2010.  It was frost burned on Dec 15,16 2010 that is the first pic.  Second pic is 4-5 months post hurricane IAN (97 mph gust max) earlier this year.  Planting a large one may lead to tilting in winds.  Mine were all planted as 3 gallons didnt notice tilt from hurricane IRMA except the smallest one in shade which was a mild tilt.  Many have reported tilting, that has not been my experience and my soil is sandy with some clay at 2'+ depth.  They are known to be frost sensitive when young, yours is likely well past that stage.

[orlandozone9b]

I am trying to do absolutely everything possible to get it rooted solid ASAP.

If we get a tropical storm this year I will brace the tree prior to it hits.

any advice on how to speed up rooting if this palm?

[orlandozone9b]

I think I’m going to get a few more cubic feet of palm soil, take off the mulch, apply the palm soil in a mound fashion, then put the mulch back over top

[orlandozone9b]

Do you all recommend palm fert spikes?

[redant]

25 minutes ago, orlandozone9b said:

I think I’m going to get a few more cubic feet of palm soil, take off the mulch, apply the palm soil in a mound fashion, then put the mulch back over top

don't mound up high on the palm, they hate that.  It's also not going to help, they just get massive fronds when small, to large for the trunk in high winds,

[Merlyn]

Planting depth and "mounding" is important for root growth and to get it to grow fast and stable.  Here's a great tutorial, written by a PT member:

http://www.marriedtoplants.com/palms/palm-tree-growing-tips-mounding/

In particular, too deep can cause trunk rot.  But too shallow makes it "air girdle" and may make it less stable in high winds.  I have 5 big Alfredii in the ground, and I definitely planted mine higher than @sonoranfans.  Mike at MB Palms told me "plant them deep."  He has about 10 trunking ones in his nursery, and none have had any problems with leaning or trunk rot.  So maybe deep is totally okay on Alfredii?

Here's what I had to do on mine after the last 2 hurricanes:

[sonoranfans]

3 hours ago, orlandozone9b said:

Do you all recommend palm fert spikes?

IMO best way to get big root system is to use portable sprinkler and a hose and water a nice wet spot around the tree with florikan controlled release fertilizer and Langbeinite 2x in the growing season(February and sept) plus mulch on top annually.  Obviously when it rains a lot you can hold the sprinker irrigation in summer after a couple years of root development.  The tree will rise up a bit as roots expand like most palms in my yard.   My yard experiences erosion from drenching rains that wash soil into a nearby pond so part of iMY BA's elevation in soil is just soil loss.  I never used drippers or spikes in floridas sandy soil, they make no sense for even distribution since fertilizer/water movement is not by horizontal capillary action like in clay, its almost pure gravity in sand.  Water a little spot, you get a tall narrow wet zone for each dripper.  Roots will only grow into areas of soil with nutrients and a wet dry cycle that is consistent.  Oh and if a potent hurricane comes, I would trim off 4-5 oldest leaves and tie up the rest.  The alfredii has such a low trunk, tree staking is near useless due to the massive leverage the wind has over any staking system(10x?).  Trim and tie it up and yes you may lose some additional leaves even then.  I had much greater leaf losses on sabal causiarum and bismarckia, probably 10 each(of the 20 total leaves in each crown) in IAN.   I lost 4-5 leaves on my biggest exposed BA in both IRMA and IAN anyway, better to limit root damage.  With a big root system, recoveries are faster no doubt.  If your soil is really sandy and high drainage, I'd get some turface MVP and spread a hundred or two hundred lbs around the base to make it hold more water/cation exchange.  

My largest is about 30'tall and about 35' wide so it has a wider crown than sabal causiarum(27') or bismarckia(25').  I estimate the clean trunk bulge near the ground at a couple inches past 30".

[Palmə häl′ik]

On 5/30/2023 at 8:46 AM, orlandozone9b said:

I am trying to do absolutely everything possible to get it rooted solid ASAP.

If we get a tropical storm this year I will brace the tree prior to it hits.

any advice on how to speed up rooting if this palm?

Boost up that rootzone!

[orlandozone9b]

2 hours ago, Palmə häl′ik said:

Boost up that rootzone!

And what is the best way to do that?

[donalt]

bought these from MB Palms.....one on the side of the house was 15 gallon pot about 7 years ago. suggest they plant slightly deeper than other palms to avoid winds blowing them over before they are strong enough to manage by themselves.

[orlandozone9b]

On 5/29/2023 at 12:52 AM, NickJames said:

Where did you get it?

Lukas Nursery in Oviedo, FL (Central FL)

[Merlyn]

Here's my largest, it is in full sun and was planted in July 2018 as a 5' tall 7 gallon.  Originally I had planted two of them in this area, and then I realized how big they grew.  So the left side one was waaaaaaaaay too close to the pump equipment, and I moved it up front a few months later.  It had already grown gigantic roots out into the surrounding soil after 8 months in the ground.

[Merlyn]

And here it is today, about 20' tall and still with a slight lean from the 2 hurricanes last summer.  Mine all had a little bit of leaf tip yellowing with 20 hours under freezing at Christmas 2022.  And then I forgot to fertilize until late April, so they are all showing signs of some magnesium deficiency.  The Bottles and Spindles in the foreground and Lutescens on the left of the path were 100% defoliated, so it's a pretty hardy palm!

 

[Palmə häl′ik]

On 6/1/2023 at 8:08 AM, orlandozone9b said:

And what is the best way to do that?

Beneficial bacteria

 

[orlandozone9b]

If I planted it just a week ago, when should I expect to see growth height wise? 
 

It seems to be very solid in the ground. We just had 20-30 mph winds and the thing didn’t budge at all. Like I said earlier, the root ball was hundreds of pounds alone when I removed from the pot. I also fertilized sparsely and am pretty good at keeping up hand watering, not sprinkler watering so I can water deep, etc.

[orlandozone9b]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:11 AM, Merlyn said:

And here it is today, about 20' tall and still with a slight lean from the 2 hurricanes last summer.  Mine all had a little bit of leaf tip yellowing with 20 hours under freezing at Christmas 2022.  And then I forgot to fertilize until late April, so they are all showing signs of some magnesium deficiency.  The Bottles and Spindles in the foreground and Lutescens on the left of the path were 100% defoliated, so it's a pretty hardy palm!

 

How much water do you recommend?

[orlandozone9b]

On 5/29/2023 at 11:08 AM, sonoranfans said:

My largest is 13 years in the ground come september 2023.  It was planted as a 3 gallon just going pinnate. at the end of august/early sept 2010.  It was frost burned on Dec 15,16 2010 that is the first pic.  Second pic is 4-5 months post hurricane IAN (97 mph gust max) earlier this year.  Planting a large one may lead to tilting in winds.  Mine were all planted as 3 gallons didnt notice tilt from hurricane IRMA except the smallest one in shade which was a mild tilt.  Many have reported tilting, that has not been my experience and my soil is sandy with some clay at 2'+ depth.  They are known to be frost sensitive when young, yours is likely well past that stage.

Beautiful palm. Seems yours is very sturdy.

from what you can tell, how long do you think it will take for my palm to trunk from the size it is right now.

[sonoranfans]

1 hour ago, orlandozone9b said:

Beautiful palm. Seems yours is very sturdy.

from what you can tell, how long do you think it will take for my palm to trunk from the size it is right now.

Depends on the root system and how quickly it is established plus sunlight hrs a day.  These palms want lots of sun to grow fast.  I have 3 and it looks like hrs of direct sun is a big part of it.  Culturally there are differences in most plantings, soil details etc.  Those may have an impact.  I also think a controlled release fertilizer feeds the range of macro and micronutrients more consistently over time than slow release fertilizers and this is especially true in a wet climate with sandy soil.  Event though yours is large I expect 2 years for full root development before it picks up speed.  Its larger above ground than many for sale but probably smaller root system than one that same size in the ground for a few years.  These palms are faster after trunking in my experience.   I think in 3-5 years it should be 18-20' overall if you take good care of it.  beneficial soil bacteria multiply and thrive in high humus soils so add humic acid around the root area every month to ensure those microbes multiply.  Humic acid is also detrimental to harmful root eating nemotodes that thrive in floridas sandy soils.  

[Rain52]

jax beach …pic taken fall 2024, no damage xmas freeze 2022, 70% burn feb 2026 freeze.