Livistonia Chinesis. Chinese Fan Palm.

[DdSing]

Hi, there. I'm very new to palms and recently acquired this lovely tree about 3 weeks ago. Came from the nursery big, lush and green. I've watered it twice since then, waiting for the soil to dry up considerably, once from the top and once from the bottom, both times with a quarter dilution of a high quality organic fertilizer. I noticed some that the lower, younger leaves were having some issues somewhat early on, they seemed to be yellowing a bit and fragile/breaking at the leaf seams. Just recently however, things seem to have gotten a bit worse. I'm including pictures to give as much context as possible. I know it's difficult to diagnose plant problems over the internet, but I was hoping someone might be willing to share some insight and wisdom based on what they see... I'm still learning how to speak the language of the palm and any help translating what this lovely fella is saying would be really helpful! 

Thanks. :)

[PalmatierMeg]

Questions:

1. How many palms are in that pot? Livistona chinensis is a solitary palm often sold artificially grouped. The individual palms compete for water/nutrients and weaker ones may die.

2. Does that ceramic container have drain holes? You can’t leave a Livistona (or most palms) sitting in standing water or you risk root rot. Either drill holes or move palm to a container that drains excess water. Don’t opt for fashion over function.

3. What are you using for potting mix? Your soil should be light, loose and free draining. Cheap black dollar store potting soil won’t cut it. Avoid Miracle Gro if you can. If not, amend it with coco coir, perlite, pumice, Turface, etc. Soggy, mucky soil leads to root rot = death

4. Don’t overwater. More palms are killed by too much water than too little. 

My initial take is too much water, poor drainage and/or mucky soil

I don’t keep houseplants and don’t know how Livistona chinensis does cooped up inside. Generally, they need lots of sun and strong light which they don’t get sitting in someone’s living room. Have you considered placing it outside during the coming warm months?

[DdSing]

There are a ton of palms in this pot. Ha. I didn't realize this wasn't a singular palm until this last week.  I'm not exactly sure how many there are 5 different husks/trunks forming, plus a significant number of newer unaffiliated spears. 

No ceramic here. It's in a 14" black plastic nursery type container with a bunch of holes around the bottom. It's never allowed to sit in water with the exception of the time that I bottom watered it and that was only for an hour or so. I do empty the drainage pan multiple times as needed after watering.

The soil seems to be well draining. In my environment, average mid 50's humidity, 80°, big southern facing window, it seems to dry out in about a week or so (10 days) except for the middle of the bottom of the pot/root ball. I don't know if it makes a huge difference, but I did get this at a slightly nicer nursery in town, not a big box store. I have been considering a repot and have been coming up with a nice custom potting mix with a lot of help from others, but I've been a bit hesitant to just start making massive changes before I really have my feet under me. I spoke with someone at the nursery about this issue and they suggested that it needed a bigger pot and that perhaps the younger leaves (the only ones affected, at least for now) were basically losing the competition. But I've also seen others here talk about now repotting until the pot is basically bursting and mine is not there. The roots are visible at the bottom near the drainage holes, but they aren't crawling out of anything. Once again, I'm just trying to be measured in my actions. 

It's definitely possible that I've overwatered it. It's a 14" big pot and I think perhaps I haven't been as careful about what's happening deeper in the pot as opposed to what's happening in the top half. I'm currently letting it dry out more than I have in the past and paying attention to the affects. 

I'm also curious... I've been told by basically everyone I've spoken to to use a very diluted fert every time I water my plants. I've been using an organic liquid 7-1-3 (which I now realize is a low on potash for a palm) and I wonder if it's possible that I've burned some of the smaller, less established roots. I know palms have sensitive roots and I wonder if giving pouring liquid fertilizer on it (in addition to overwatering it) could be causing my issues as well. 

 As far as sun goes, where it sits is currently the sunniest place I can place it. I do open my windows (the actual panes) so that it gets a nice full spectrum of light. It's still significantly lower than it would get outside however. My understanding is that these palms can do okay in a bit more shade.

Appreciate the thoughts and feedback! Every little bit helps. 

[PalmatierMeg]

Ack, that’s a lot of seedlings. They all can’t possibly survive. If you looked at photos of older chinensis you will have noticed they can get quite large. As far as fertilizer you are better off using a time release brand such as Osmocote or Nurticote every few months than diluted granular houseplant fertilizer. A good fertilizer also provides all the micronutrients as well as the usual N-P-K. Time release fertilizer is less likely to burn palm roots.

[DdSing]

Gotcha! 

So that leads me to my next question... Is it possible to separate these into individual pots without absolutely destroying their root systems? Or is the proper course to let them all duel it out and just keep whatever survives together? 

[SoFlo]

In my opinion, splitting up the family is the only option. As for the skein of tangled roots, it depends how old and how long they’ve lived in  that pot. I rescued an overgrown triple LC in a 3g by planting it in the backyard years ago. One palm is twice as tall as the next and the third is a runt. Still not sure how I feel about that. BB stores and commercial nurseries will tell you a houseplant is multiple R.rivularis in a 3g, a species that grows quite large as a single specimen outside. Again, IMHO, two of those LC’s in one pot is one too many.

[PalmatierMeg]

 I agree that separating them is the best way. As many as there are in that pot some have a good chance at survival. Here’s how I do it:

1. Take pot outside in the grass.

2. Unpot seedlings and gently hose off all the potting mix.

3. Carefully untangle the mass of roots to tease out each seedling. Try to avoid breaking any roots if possible. Patience is a huge virtue here.

4. Have pots and fresh mix available to repot each plant.

5. Water them in and set them in a shady place to recover

6. Do not fertilize for at least 3 months then use time release fertilizer

[Almisa]

On 5/27/2023 at 4:09 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

Questions:

1. How many palms are in that pot? Livistona chinensis is a solitary palm often sold artificially grouped. The individual palms compete for water/nutrients and weaker ones may die.

2. Does that ceramic container have drain holes? You can’t leave a Livistona (or most palms) sitting in standing water or you risk root rot. Either drill holes or move palm to a container that drains excess water. Don’t opt for fashion over function.

3. What are you using for potting mix? Your soil should be light, loose and free draining. Cheap black dollar store potting soil won’t cut it. Avoid Miracle Gro if you can. If not, amend it with coco coir, perlite, pumice, Turface, etc. Soggy, mucky soil leads to root rot = death

4. Don’t overwater. More palms are killed by too much water than too little. 

My initial take is too much water, poor drainage and/or mucky soil

I don’t keep houseplants and don’t know how Livistona chinensis does cooped up inside. Generally, they need lots of sun and strong light which they don’t get sitting in someone’s living room. Have you considered placing it outside during the coming warm months?

On the subject of Livistonia chinesis indoors: this was one of my first indoor palms - I thought Wow- a great statement piece for the living room of my new house. It was fine for about a year - medium sized, plenty of big healthy fronds in a 14” pot, plenty of artificial light plus a large skylit area. It seemed to thrive for about a year.  Then, I noticed a gradual and steady decline - yellowing and failing, nothing seemed to make it happy. It was down to two fronds by the time I relocated it outside in its own area, surviving last winter’s low temps like. CHAMP, no protection, and now growing like the proverbial weed. . I have since acquired 2 more but will keep them in their (good soil mix, well draining) pots outside. I agree with all other recommendations mentioned.   Good Luck DdSing! 

[Almisa]

On 5/27/2023 at 4:31 PM, DdSing said:

There are a ton of palms in this pot. Ha. I didn't realize this wasn't a singular palm until this last week.  I'm not exactly sure how many there are 5 different husks/trunks forming, plus a significant number of newer unaffiliated spears. 

No ceramic here. It's in a 14" black plastic nursery type container with a bunch of holes around the bottom. It's never allowed to sit in water with the exception of the time that I bottom watered it and that was only for an hour or so. I do empty the drainage pan multiple times as needed after watering.

The soil seems to be well draining. In my environment, average mid 50's humidity, 80°, big southern facing window, it seems to dry out in about a week or so (10 days) except for the middle of the bottom of the pot/root ball. I don't know if it makes a huge difference, but I did get this at a slightly nicer nursery in town, not a big box store. I have been considering a repot and have been coming up with a nice custom potting mix with a lot of help from others, but I've been a bit hesitant to just start making massive changes before I really have my feet under me. I spoke with someone at the nursery about this issue and they suggested that it needed a bigger pot and that perhaps the younger leaves (the only ones affected, at least for now) were basically losing the competition. But I've also seen others here talk about now repotting until the pot is basically bursting and mine is not there. The roots are visible at the bottom near the drainage holes, but they aren't crawling out of anything. Once again, I'm just trying to be measured in my actions. 

It's definitely possible that I've overwatered it. It's a 14" big pot and I think perhaps I haven't been as careful about what's happening deeper in the pot as opposed to what's happening in the top half. I'm currently letting it dry out more than I have in the past and paying attention to the affects. 

I'm also curious... I've been told by basically everyone I've spoken to to use a very diluted fert every time I water my plants. I've been using an organic liquid 7-1-3 (which I now realize is a low on potash for a palm) and I wonder if it's possible that I've burned some of the smaller, less established roots. I know palms have sensitive roots and I wonder if giving pouring liquid fertilizer on it (in addition to overwatering it) could be causing my issues as well. 

 As far as sun goes, where it sits is currently the sunniest place I can place it. I do open my windows (the actual panes) so that it gets a nice full spectrum of light. It's still significantly lower than it would get outside however. My understanding is that these palms can do okay in a bit more shade.

Appreciate the thoughts and feedback! Every little bit helps. 

Also - I would go really easy on ANY chemical fertilizer until your palms get acclimated.