Euterpe edulis problem

[Tomas]

I acquired a small plant three four years ago and grew it in a pot on my terrace, it was the fastest palm I ever had.  It stayed outside, only with temperatures below 0°C I recovered it few times inside. Last spring I planted it in my garden near Rome. It started to decline immediately, the spear stopped to grow, the palm lost one after another nearly all the leaves, in autumn there was only one left. So I said bye bye Euterpe, but with the cold arriving, the spear started growing again, few days ago the new leaf was nearly opened and green, but at the base it was always white, like incapable of doing the photosynthesis. The only leaf left from last year dried and the new broke with some wind. If I put some hydrogen peroxid it frizzles like mad, but the spear doesn't pull. During winter I sprayed with whatever I could imagine, fungicide, microelements, urea ...

[kinzyjr]

@Tomas It does look like a fungal infection.  Not sure why, but this species tends to be temperamental here as well - especially the Orange Crownshaft variety.

[Hurricanepalms]

I have had the experience as kinzyjr. One minute they look great and then spear pull only to decline. I had an orange version growing really well and then the spear pulled. I treated it with hydrogen peroxide and it slowly recovered and then almost a year later it spear pulled again. I yanked it out after that. I read the standard green are easier. I planted one and so far so good. Only time will tell. Good luck.

[Tomas]

It is videly distributed through South America and grows from sea level to quite a high altitude, so I thought it would be quite temperature tolerant, but probably it is not. Mine is/was the green form and seems to prefer the cooler period of the year 😥.

[philthypalms]

  On 4/3/2023 at 5:16 PM, Tomas said:

It is videly distributed through South America and grows from sea level to quite a high altitude, so I thought it would be quite temperature tolerant, but probably it is not. Mine is/was the green form and seems to prefer the cooler period of the year 😥.

Expand  

Has to be kept moist and humid at all times. Summer will kill it in Zone 10a, not winter.

[tim_brissy_13]

  On 4/3/2023 at 11:40 PM, philthypalms said:

Has to be kept moist and humid at all times. Summer will kill it in Zone 10a, not winter.

Expand  

I’ve struggled in the past with E edulis here in Melbourne, but I planted my Orange Crownshaft variety here in the ground last spring after a few years in a pot and it has taken off. I think you’re right, the key seems to be protection from afternoon sun here. Mine is in an east facing garden with filtered light from late morning onwards and seems to be enjoying it. Had no issues with a couple of days over 40C but they aren’t frequent here. 

[PalmatierMeg]

Here in SWFL I’ve had no success growing any of the Euterpe. I lost precatoria and orange crown shaft to cold in 2010. A few years ago I read E edulis is the cold hardiest species so I tried growing that species from seed. Most germinated but all never made out of 1g pots. Now I’m learning this genus does not grow well in FL swelter, so the whole genus is off the table.

[Xenon]

My green form E. edulis is a good grower and is taking off right now. I planted two 4" pot sized saplings in August 2021, sourced from Floribunda. I have it in morning sun, midday filtered light (under water oak canopy), and varying levels of shade the rest of the day. They are growing in clay amended with peat and pine bark fines. Covered on a handful of cold nights (used some xmas lights when it got 16F) but otherwise spend 97% of winter outdoors with no fuss. 

Last summer was extremely hot, daily highs at my location did not drop below 90F from May 26th to September 3rd. 60+ days of highs topping out above 98F with stretches of consecutive 100F+ for a week or more, average dew points in the mid 70s (sweltering). Some burn on the leaf edges but nothing close to mortal damage. You can see the scorch on the older leaves.

Dec 2021

Today

 

[tim_brissy_13]

  On 4/4/2023 at 4:34 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

Here in SWFL I’ve had no success growing any of the Euterpe. I lost precatoria and orange crown shaft to cold in 2010. A few years ago I read E edulis is the cold hardiest species so I tried growing that species from seed. Most germinated but all never made out of 1g pots. Now I’m learning this genus does not grow well in FL swelter, so the whole genus is off the table.

Expand  

E oleracea and precatoria thrive in hot tropical climates like Singapore and Thailand. I don’t think they’d have any issue with any amount of heat or humidity. 

[PalmatierMeg]

  On 4/5/2023 at 12:04 AM, tim_brissy_13 said:

E oleracea and precatoria thrive in hot tropical climates like Singapore and Thailand. I don’t think they’d have any issue with any amount of heat or humidity. 

Expand  

Good to know but they may be too cold sensitive for my winters. I also suspect my alkaline shell rock soil messes them over

[mnorell]

I wonder if there isn't something about your soil (or perhaps irrigation water) that the palm doesn't like. I would have said the winter soil temperatures in Roma, since I believe this species comes, at least partially, from the Iguazu Falls region, which has winter low temperatures equal to Roma's high temperatures...but as you mentioned they actually improved their growth in the cold, this would apparently not be an issue. I saw similar effects at our old place in the Florida Keys with certain species of Heliconia, growing on almost pure calcium carbonate and with municipal irrigation water with a pH of about 9.0(!).

I have a community pot of Areca triandra seedlings that started throwing white leaves this last fall/winter, and I am about to completely change the soil and give a good fertilization, since I am also at a loss to explain this complete whiteness (as opposed to a more typical interveinal chlorosis or some other commonly encountered deficiency). It is possible it is because we have had a very cold winter here in Southern California, but it seems very extreme to me considering all other plants are fine (including Euterpe edulis).

And at least for me, Euterpe sp. 'orange crownshaft'  (from Jeff Marcus/Floribunda, and I'm assuming it's the orange form of E. edulis), doesn't have any particular requirements as to temperature or humidity...as I have had one for 2-3 years in a 5-gallon pot growing here in the Palm Springs area taking Sonoran desert conditions, it has seen from about 31/32F one morning a year or so ago, to about 120F probably a dozen times over its lifespan here.  It is actually in a chilly winter position, barely protected by a porch overhang, with a northeastern exposure. It didn't seem to mind the long, scorching summer, including the warm nights, and this winter (one of the longest, chilliest fall-winter periods here in decades) it continued to push a spear, at double the speed of both a Roystonea regia and Roystonea oleracea sitting right next to it.

But I did have an odd thing happen recently: about a month ago, I ordered two more of these as part of a large order from Floribunda Palms, thinking (silly me) that this horrible winter was at long last finished. But as soon as they arrived, we went down to 38 degrees, and now they've endured over a month of vacillating and generally far below average temps. One of the orange crownshafts collapsed within days of its arrival (as did a few other random palms from that order), totally dead. The other Euterpe sitting beside it, perfect condition. Even a Verschaffeltia splendida next to them was and remains unscathed despite the almost continuous cool/cold temperatures. So I think there is something to this talk of 'bizarre behavior' with Euterpe!!
 

[Kaname-kun]

  On 4/5/2023 at 2:01 AM, PalmatierMeg said:

Good to know but they may be too cold sensitive for my winters. I also suspect my alkaline shell rock soil messes them over

Expand  

Yes, Maybe it's your soil. Here in Fort Lauderdale we have two Euterpe oleracea reaching to the second-story roof flanking our front door, and several large Euterpe "Orange Crownshaft" in ground and 7-gals waiting to go into ground.  --Though I did have a 3-gal Orange Crownshaft die overnight a few weeks ago for no discernible reason.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Kaname-kun

[Patrick]

  On 4/5/2023 at 12:04 AM, tim_brissy_13 said:

E oleracea and precatoria thrive in hot tropical climates like Singapore and Thailand. I don’t think they’d have any issue with any amount of heat or humidity. 

Expand  

E. oleracea did well in Leilani Estates (Hawaii) for me, for several years. It was a beautiful palm but my microclimate actually got too hot and it melted.

[Tomas]

The palm grew for few years in a pot on my terrace in Rome very well, I then planted it in my garden, mixing the soil with a potting mix I use for all my plantings. The water in the place where the garden is, is better than that of rome, so really no reason I can think. The decline started nearly immediately. Here it is after being planted in spring 2022, just some dried leaflet tips from the cold.

[Tomas]

  On 4/4/2023 at 6:38 PM, Xenon said:

Last summer was extremely hot, daily highs at my location did not drop below 90F from May 26th to September 3rd. 60+ days of highs topping out above 98F with stretches of consecutive 100F+ for a week or more, average dew points in the mid 70s (sweltering).

Expand  

What are your daily lows in such summer?

[Xenon]

  On 4/5/2023 at 5:22 PM, Tomas said:

What are your daily lows in such summer?

Expand  

Never below 70F (21C) from late May to mid September, 74-83F (23-28C) from mid June to mid August 

[Tomas]

  On 4/5/2023 at 6:29 PM, Xenon said:

Never below 70F (21C) from late May to mid September, 74-83F (23-28C) from mid June to mid August 

Expand  

Something similar to our 2022 summer, so no way the heat is the ultimate culprit

[The Palm Nut]

Had one growing for 20 years or so never had a problem with it until one day we had a strong wind gust during a storm and blew its top off and that was the end of it. Never had flowered hence, no seeds unfortunately and they don't seem to be available at any of the nurseries I've been to. Great palm for the garden. 

[Tyrone]

  On 4/3/2023 at 11:40 PM, philthypalms said:

Has to be kept moist and humid at all times. Summer will kill it in Zone 10a, not winter.

Expand  

We had a heap growing well at Premier Palms when I worked with Reg in High Wycombe and they grew really well under shade. I grew a few in pots in Belmont but they seemed really touchy. I brought my orange crownshaft down to Albany and they just gave up and died. However if it’s the summer heat which does them in I might try the green form again down here as we are way more humid than Perth all year round, and although we may get a heat spike in summer its normally just a blip and it’s always a cool night afterwards. I think we may have had one 37C this summer and that was it. 

[philthypalms]

  On 4/7/2023 at 1:26 AM, Tyrone said:

We had a heap growing well at Premier Palms when I worked with Reg in High Wycombe and they grew really well under shade. I grew a few in pots in Belmont but they seemed really touchy. I brought my orange crownshaft down to Albany and they just gave up and died. However if it’s the summer heat which does them in I might try the green form again down here as we are way more humid than Perth all year round, and although we may get a heat spike in summer its normally just a blip and it’s always a cool night afterwards. I think we may have had one 37C this summer and that was it. 

Expand  

Summer sun killed one in 2022 Boxing Day. I since got another from Memory (the smallest she had left) and it has put on bulk and frond length this summer. The ones planted in ground at Premier Palms new location all did fine as did the bagged ones still at the nursery. It seems to be like the Mt. Gower and Mt. Panie stuff...Death on sight if the roots touch sun in summer.

[philthypalms]

  On 4/7/2023 at 1:26 AM, Tyrone said:

We had a heap growing well at Premier Palms when I worked with Reg in High Wycombe and they grew really well under shade. I grew a few in pots in Belmont but they seemed really touchy. I brought my orange crownshaft down to Albany and they just gave up and died. However if it’s the summer heat which does them in I might try the green form again down here as we are way more humid than Perth all year round, and although we may get a heat spike in summer its normally just a blip and it’s always a cool night afterwards. I think we may have had one 37C this summer and that was it. 

Expand  

Euterpe broadwayi seems like a fit for Perth, but let's find seed Ty!

[philthypalms]

  On 4/7/2023 at 1:26 AM, Tyrone said:

We had a heap growing well at Premier Palms when I worked with Reg in High Wycombe and they grew really well under shade. I grew a few in pots in Belmont but they seemed really touchy. I brought my orange crownshaft down to Albany and they just gave up and died. However if it’s the summer heat which does them in I might try the green form again down here as we are way more humid than Perth all year round, and although we may get a heat spike in summer its normally just a blip and it’s always a cool night afterwards. I think we may have had one 37C this summer and that was it. 

Expand  

L. hopei doesn't mind Perth lately mate ;