Mule issues... Again

[Keys6505]

I posted a thread on here last summer about my Mule that seemed to be declining and I had thought it was from the fire ants that had taken up residence around the base of the trunk.  After clearing them out the tree seemed to be doing a little better, but the fronds all still yellowed and it looked a little rough.  This winter we had the freeze with a low of 17° which damaged most of the fronds.  After letting them grow out I trimmed off everything that was yellow or brown and figured I had a fresh start with an all-green crown.  Fast forward a month or 2 and this thing looks like it's on its way out.  All the fronds dying off, spotting, turning brown, the last spear turned brown and broke in half.  Some of the symptoms seem nutritional, but it's having a crisis and throwing all different nutritional symptoms at once.  My 50lb bag of Carl Pool just came in so I'm fertilizing this weekend.  Go heavy on the fert?  Any extra macros? Anything else obvious this tree needs?

[Allen]

action plan

1) Spray entire palm with a copper fungicide solution.  Spear area, and trunk and fronds to kill any fungus lurking near it.  

2) cut a 2 ' ring around the palm (Clear grass) 

3) Put about 2 gallons of water soluble fertilizer (Jacks Palm food or similar) around that 2' ring followed by 2 cups of your palm fert sprinkled evenly over the 2' ring area.

4) Mulch 2' ring with 3cu ft or so of pine bark mulch or similar

5) repeat soluble fertilizer in about a week

6) Water 2X per week heavily. 

7) keep fingers crossed and post pic of new growth in a month.

 

Pic 2 fungus or disease present

Pic 4 nutrient deficiency.  Cold weather uptake problem combined with general potassium/nutrient deficiency

Pic 5 cold damage or disease killing old fronds

 

Post a pic of the newest emerging spear and also that spear backlit.  Is pic 3 the newest spear/frond?

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Allen

[Keys6505]

24 minutes ago, Allen said:

action plan

1) Spray entire palm with a copper fungicide solution.  Spear area, and trunk and fronds to kill any fungus lurking near it.  

2) cut a 2 ' ring around the palm (Clear grass) 

3) Put about 2 gallons of water soluble fertilizer (Jacks Palm food or similar) around that 2' ring followed by 2 cups of your palm fert sprinkled evenly over the 2' ring area.

4) Mulch 2' ring with 3cu ft or so of pine bark mulch or similar

5) repeat soluble fertilizer in about a week

6) Water 2X per week heavily. 

7) keep fingers crossed and post pic of new growth in a month.

 

Pic 2 fungus or disease present

Pic 4 nutrient deficiency.  Cold weather uptake problem combined with general potassium/nutrient deficiency

Pic 5 cold damage or disease killing old fronds

 

Post a pic of the newest emerging spear and also that spear backlit.  Is pic 3 the newest spear/frond?

 

Wow, that's about as detailed as I could possibly hope for, thank you!  I don't have anything water soluble on hand except for some MG houseplant stuff.  Is that enough in conjunction with the granular Carl Pool, or should I find some specialized water soluble palm food?

This wimpy little thing was the most recent spear.  It browned in the middle and folded in half.  I don't see anything else coming unfortunately.  

[Allen]

18 minutes ago, Keys6505 said:

Wow, that's about as detailed as I could possibly hope for, thank you!  I don't have anything water soluble on hand except for some MG houseplant stuff.  Is that enough in conjunction with the granular Carl Pool, or should I find some specialized water soluble palm food?

This wimpy little thing was the most recent spear.  It browned in the middle and folded in half.  I don't see anything else coming unfortunately.  

 

I would order a specialized palm soluble from Amazon.  See how the new spear does not have spots like the others where your fingers are? That is because it is warmer lately and the palm is better able to uptake nutrients better now.  Mules are heavy feeders though.  Fertilize that thing as often as the Carl Pool label says.  Check the center area (Looking down if possible) thoroughly and see if there is any browning or rot inside there where the spears come out.  It could still be some sort of disease but I don't like to make that call and give the palm a shot till June or so.  Looking back at your temp history the only temps I see that could have damaged the palm were in that Christmas freeze event.

No overhead water or yard sprinklers. 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Allen

[Enar]

Maybe a little potassium deficency going on, before you fertilize check the PH level in the soil around your palm tree to see if it's correct first

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

I have had 4 mules in the ground and keep seem to make any happy. They hate our cold snaps and just never really seem to be a good fit here. I may try another one day if I can get one on clearance from a BB store at my new place. After it's first winter in the ground my (BxJ)xS from Patric seems to be a winner ! 

T J 

[MarcusH]

40 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

I have had 4 mules in the ground and keep seem to make any happy. They hate our cold snaps and just never really seem to be a good fit here. I may try another one day if I can get one on clearance from a BB store at my new place. After it's first winter in the ground my (BxJ)xS from Patric seems to be a winner ! 

T J 

How cold did it get ? I have seen some members having quite some issues with Mules.  Maybe they aren't as bulletproof as they advertise at nurseries I don't know.  Enlighten me. 

[Allen]

10 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

How cold did it get ? I have seen some members having quite some issues with Mules.  Maybe they aren't as bulletproof as they advertise at nurseries I don't know.  Enlighten me. 

I have a lot of cold experience on mine and seeing other people's experiences.  Majority of mule palms under 20F will take significant cold damage to fronds.  Small ones may die due to rot from owners that are not looking at that problem.  Small ones may have frond damage due to ice snow and mid to lower 20's.  A very few seem to handle conditions in mid -upper teens with minor damage.    Below that you need special circumstances for it to do well like protected, in a great microclimate or maybe brief dry cold.   Fronds on mules are cold sensitive because at the frond tips they are very small and delicate.

[MarcusH]

The dormancy plays a huge role and when you buy a juvenile you probably don't know what you get.  

[Xenon]

I see a lot of mules in commercial spaces in west Houston and they do fine. Lots of new installs in Katy Area. Burned but nothing they won't grow out of. 

Many survived 2021 as well.

Mules can be sensitive to alkalinity/water quality. You can compensate with sulfur or acid fertilizer (most palm fertilizers are acidifying). 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Xenon

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

2 hours ago, MarcusH said:

How cold did it get ? I have seen some members having quite some issues with Mules.  Maybe they aren't as bulletproof as they advertise at nurseries I don't know.  Enlighten me. 

Palmageddon it saw a low of 15° with not getting above freezing for 32hrs. It survived with minimal protection which is awesome for sure. After that it never really recovered. Mules to me are a little more bud hardy then a regular queen which they defoliate at 19° or below around here. Maybe if we can get a few 10a winters these poor mules have a chance to get tougher.

T J 

[Fusca]

The first mule that I bought back in 2013 never suffered any damage until Feb 2021 other than some minor black spotting in 2018 after enduring 20°F.  The only protection it received was covering with a plastic garbage can below 30°F its first winter in the ground.  9°F and the long stretch of freezing hours with no protection killed that mule but a smaller one survived and grew back nicely.  As far as I know @mulungu who dug it out last year still has it in San Antonio - hopefully he can update us on its status.   A large 7-gal mule that I planted here in 2020 is doing OK but is apparently struggling with the high pH soil as is a 3-gal mule that I transplanted from San Antonio last year.  It's receiving city water and looks mostly healthy but hasn't grown much since it spear-pulled shortly after planting last April.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Fusca

[MarcusH]

On 3/30/2023 at 1:43 PM, Xenon said:

I see a lot of mules in commercial spaces in west Houston and they do fine. Lots of new installs in Katy Area. Burned but nothing they won't grow out of. 

Many survived 2021 as well.

Mules can be sensitive to alkalinity/water quality. You can compensate with sulfur or acid fertilizer (most palm fertilizers are acidifying). 

I'm surprised the mule at the Riverwalk didn't make it I was hoping but nah . Nursery guy said about 75 percent of all the mules surivived.  I haven't seen one planted in the ground in San Antonio but I also wasn't driving through every street . 

[amh]

22 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Nursery guy said about 75 percent of all the mules surivived.  I haven't seen one planted in the ground in San Antonio but I also wasn't driving through every street . 

I've noticed the same thing.

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, amh said:

I've noticed the same thing.

Lol where are the mule palms in San Antonio?  

[mulungu]

On 3/30/2023 at 2:15 PM, Fusca said:

The first mule that I bought back in 2013 never suffered any damage until Feb 2021 other than some minor black spotting in 2018 after enduring 20°F.  The only protection it received was covering with a plastic garbage can below 30°F its first winter in the ground.  9°F and the long stretch of freezing hours with no protection killed that mule but a smaller one survived and grew back nicely.  As far as I know @mulungu who dug it out last year still has it in San Antonio - hopefully he can update us on its status.   A large 7-gal mule that I planted here in 2020 is doing OK but is apparently struggling with the high pH soil as is a 3-gal mule that I transplanted from San Antonio last year.  It's receiving city water and looks mostly healthy but hasn't grown much since it spear-pulled shortly after planting last April.

I hate to be bearer of bad news, but that beautiful mule ended up not surviving.  It seemed to be settling in fine until several weeks after transplant, when a couple of fronds browned in one week.  I initially thought, hmm, maybe with it being so hot/dry last year, and the crown being still relatively full, the disturbed roots are having a hard time keeping up. 

But eventually it became clear that it was some sort of infection as one by one the fronds kept turning brown, marching inexorably toward the spear.  I threw several fungicides and bacteriocides at it in a desperate bid to save the palm, but the rot wouldn't stop.  Eventually it reached the spear and when that pulled out it was the end.  First time I have encountered palm pathogen issues and the only thing I could come up with is maybe the stress of transplanting during the particularly hot dry summer made it more susceptible. 

[Fusca]

34 minutes ago, mulungu said:

I hate to be bearer of bad news, but that beautiful mule ended up not surviving.  It seemed to be settling in fine until several weeks after transplant, when a couple of fronds browned in one week.  I initially thought, hmm, maybe with it being so hot/dry last year, and the crown being still relatively full, the disturbed roots are having a hard time keeping up. 

But eventually it became clear that it was some sort of infection as one by one the fronds kept turning brown, marching inexorably toward the spear.  I threw several fungicides and bacteriocides at it in a desperate bid to save the palm, but the rot wouldn't stop.  Eventually it reached the spear and when that pulled out it was the end.  First time I have encountered palm pathogen issues and the only thing I could come up with is maybe the stress of transplanting during the particularly hot dry summer made it more susceptible. 

What a bummer, sorry to hear that!  Thanks for the update.  The one that I transplanted took a long time to recover from the transplant also.  It was a difficult summer.

[fr8train]

On 4/1/2023 at 7:11 PM, MarcusH said:

Lol where are the mule palms in San Antonio?  

The only place I've seen them is palm buddha. I wonder how much they go for? Almost nothing there was priced. 

[MarcusH]

9 hours ago, fr8train said:

The only place I've seen them is palm buddha. I wonder how much they go for? Almost nothing there was priced. 

The small ones start at $350 . I was there last summer . Originally I went there to get a free quote for a Sabal mexicana.  Nice guy but they charge a lot for palms 

[fr8train]

Just now, MarcusH said:

The small ones start at $350 . I was there last summer . Originally I went there to get a free quote for a Sabal mexicana.  Nice guy but they charge a lot for palms 

I see, thanks for letting me know, I've been wondering about that. 

Did you see the giant blue Mediterranean fan palms they have? I don't think I've ever seen ones that big anywhere else. I wonder how much they want for those?

[MarcusH]

No I haven't.  Maybe I passed by . When I was there I felt like walking into a jungle so many palms , especially Mules and Sabals.  Bug spray is highly recommended in the summer time the mosquitoes aren't joking.