Sun intensity

[palmmermaid]

I am just wondering what everyone's opinion regarding the intensity of the sun in Hawaii vs. south Florida.  I know Hawaii is closer to the equator (20 degrees N) that we are in West Palm (26 degrees N).  While Hawaii has cooler weather due to the cool ocean waters there, is the sun just as hot, not as hot, or hotter than here in West Palm.  I've heard different ideas on this and am curious as to what is really true.  

Does anyone know?

[deezpalms]

I would say not as hot in Hawaii.

[ruskinPalms]

Definitely hotter, especially on the leeward sides of the islands. That being said, the sun is definitly hotter in Miami compared to Tampa. I personally can tell the difference between the two anyway.

[bgl]

Kitty,

Interesting question! From my own experience, and having made this same mistake (when I was MUCH younger) in both places, I can definitely say that the rays from the sun are stronger in HI than FL. The mistake was to be outside without any sunscreen, or other type of protection (i.e. I had a t-shirt on). In HI, during the summer, with the sun directly overhead at noon, anything more than 15 minutes will cause sunburn for me. In SoFL, it was more like 45 minutes. Needless to say, not a scientific experiment (and I certainly wouldn't recommend it!).

Bo-Göran

[sonoranfans]

(palmmermaid @ Oct. 02 2007,11:16)

QUOTE

I am just wondering what everyone's opinion regarding the intensity of the sun in Hawaii vs. south Florida.  I know Hawaii is closer to the equator (20 degrees N) that we are in West Palm (26 degrees N).  While Hawaii has cooler weather due to the cool ocean waters there, is the sun just as hot, not as hot, or hotter than here in West Palm.  I've heard different ideas on this and am curious as to what is really true.  

Does anyone know?

Just came back from kauai a few weeka ago.  The dry west side of the island is desert-like its pretty hot sun.  Moisture in the atmosphere(clouds and humidity) removes the infra-red heating wavelengths that heat substances made primarily of water(like plants and animals).  While the west side of Kauai (Waimea)was hot, it sure isnt even close to arizona.  I expect the dry sides of the hawaiian islands have hotter sun than florida.  If its 89 degrees in both places, you will feel hotter in the sun in the  dry parts of hawaii.  In winter in arizona, 60 degrees is warm enough for shorts and short sleeves, laying out in the sun, if there are no clouds, the sun warms you up very nicely.  In the summer or even the dry spring, being in the sun in arizona and working in the yard will quickly bring you to your knees.

[palmmermaid]

Thanks for all the responses!  I thought the sun would be hotter in Hawaii since it is 5 degrees closer to the equator.  So if Bo can put certain palms in the sun, it will be OK for me to do so.  I planted my Cyrtostachis in the sun even though it has been in the shade.  I did put it on the south east side so it should be OK, even if a few of the old leaves burn.  It will get plenty of water.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Kitty, I put mine out in full sun after being in 60% shade for a year and just kept it heavily watered...  Not a single leaflet burned...

[bubba]

Hawaii definitely as it relates to hot sun. The nice thing about Hawaii though, is the constant breeze.Together with the cooler water temperature and lower humidity and it feels much more comfortable.Although  I understand the trades dissappear in October and it can be miserable atleast during that month.

[JakeK]

From reading some of the responses it seems some are confusing intensity with temperature. Bo got it correct in saying that the sun is more intense in HI vs. FL, as it is closer to the equator.

The sun is definitely more intense in HI than FL regardless of where you are at on the islands and regardless of cloud cover as well.

[Walter John]

So if Bo can put certain palms in the sun, it will be OK for me to do so.

That ain't necessarily so, as Normie Rowe once put it.

A dry day sun and a humid day sun can have the same temps but where will the palms grow better ? This makes all the difference.

[sonoranfans]

(Wal @ Oct. 02 2007,14:30)

QUOTE

So if Bo can put certain palms in the sun, it will be OK for me to do so.

That ain't necessarily so, as Normie Rowe once put it.

A dry day sun and a humid day sun can have the same temps but where will the palms grow better ? This makes all the difference.

Absolutely, the dehydration rate in a dry climate will be much higher.  Full all day sun in the desert is not recommended for many "drought tolerant" palms of even 5-15 gallon size.  I have taken to shielding my chamaerops humillis from full sun until the roots are established at 15 gallon size.  Phoenix Roebelinii are NOT full sun rated here.  They look best in part day shade.  They say that the first summer is a risk for even a 4-6' bismarckia that was started in a california nursery.  After root development, they are fine here.

[bgl]

Kitty,

I thought that might be where you were heading with this topic. But there are many variables (as Wal mentioned). "Full sun" here on the Hilo side of the Big Island is not the same as "full sun" on the Kona side of this very same island, OR "full sun" in SoCal, AZ or SoFL. Fact is, despite being closer to the equator than any mainland location I can put a whole bunch of palms out in "full sun" that would burn to a crisp in exposed locations in SW USA, because of differences in humidity and general cloudcover. A typical day here is probably 75-80% overcast, but when the sun comes out it's HOT. Florida has more clouds and humidity than SoCal during the summer, so conditions are different. But since Cyrtostachys is a sun lover I'm certain you can put that out in full sun, no matter when. And even if the palm were to get a little bit of burn (and it may not happen), new growth should be fine.

Bo-Göran

[palmmermaid]

Bo,

I understand what you are saying.  Humidity and cloud cover have a large impact.  Our humidity is usually above 60% and we have cloud cover at least half of the time.  And I have consistently wet areas in  my yard.

My Cyrstostachis is in the ground.  I am hoping for the best.  Will keep you posted.

[ariscott]

Full sun with high humidity is not as harsh as dry heat. Like in Darwin, at the moment, we are having 39-40 deg C day, but our humidity is well above 70%. And no cloud cover during the day, as the build-up has not started, and yet... I can plant more palms in full sun compared to people in Brisbane with dry heat. The humidity helps palm to withstand the heat, I think.

Not helping us gardeners though... it is getting harder and harder to dig holes....

Regards, Ari

[BS Man about Palms]

Bo- (and others)

You might be interested to hear about a "heat index" temp that Borrego Springs hit this summer. (For those of you not familiar with this desert area, its where the "Palm Canyon" park is with the old stand of Washingtonias are in a small creek/spring? area.)

On August 20th (I think) they had a heat index of "186 degrees F."   (It was 107F with 74% RH)  

THATS HOT!

[BS Man about Palms]

Nice Avatar Dave

[epicure3]

I all conditions were the same, the sun in Hawaii would be more intense than in Florida. For sure. However, conditions are rarely the same. The amount of humidity, cloud cover, pollution and dust, elevation, etc.... all affect the intensity of the sun in different locales. Now, the sun is always more direct in hawaii, that's for sure. I would say that the sun in Arizona in the summer is more intense that either Florida or Hawaii. Even here in San Diego at 32N, in winter, the sun usually feels somewhat warm but not hot. However, when a Santa Ana kicks in with very dry winds, the sun really seems to burn. Just my $.02

[bubba]

BS, Wow! That is really hot.

[deezpalms]

(BS, Man about Palms @ Oct. 03 2007,08:32)

QUOTE

Nice Avatar Dave

hahha! Thanks Bill! I've been watching and photographing the newly opened frond of one of my gigas.  

[Davidl]

Guayaquil Ecuador is at 2.21°S 79.90°W, about 250 km south-southwest of the capital of Ecuador. That said there humidity is slightly less than Fl and I will burn quicker here in south fl than there. It was very strange to me to be that close to the Equator and the sun did not "feel" as hot as south Fl.