Hey there!   I planted a Chamaedorea radicalis group at my Mom's late last fall, maybe about 10 months ago.  They went in as a small 1 gallon size.  You may remember a post I did last year after planting them.  I put a shade cloth over them for a few months to let them acclimate.  Then this spring some gladiolus popped up all around and helped provide a bit of protection.  Well, now all the gladiolus have been cut away for several months and this tiny palm has completely acclimated to full sun for 3/4 of the day.  Truely a beautiful plant.  One of the toughest out there that can handle some cold and a lot of sun.

May I add that this species is such a winner, not only does it endure extreme cold without flinching (only tested to low 20s at my place but apparently down to about 10F with leaf damage), but here in the hot Mississippi sun it takes it like a champ. I have several planted in sun, they look great, more compact than the shade-grown specimens, and handle scorching sun much better than does cataractarum, another sun-tolerant species. This is for my money the tropical-looking small palm to beat in zone 8b/9a areas!

Great info Michael!  Wow!  That's even tougher than I thought.

looks like a winner,matt!

Matt and Michael,

Great to know.  I couldnt quite bring myself to believe a cham could be so sun tolerant,  however,  I have seen C. elegans SURVIVE in full sun in sandy soil for years,  so its clear even the apparently most sensitive can survive.  But the C. radicalis shown actually LOOKS fantastic in full sun !

I've had a double in partial shade for a few years. I can't get over how wide is their tolerance of temp and sun. Yet it has one of the most elegant, tropical looking forms I can think of. Gotta get a couple more....

Bret

I bought a couple of C. rads from Kevin Weaver a few months ago. They came straight out of his green house and I planted them in direct sunlight. The old fronds burned, but the new ones are green as can be. I hope they make it thru the winter. We will see.

Matteo

Gratuitous habitat shot of said palm.  At this location (immediately off hwy101, a few km southwest of Ciudad Victoria in Tamaulipas), which I believe is towards the northern edge of it's range, you see it mostly growing in woodland but with a few peeking out into the sun by road cuts.  Usually with it's roots sandwiched into damp little crevices in rocks just like this.

This seems quite unlike Matty's plant - more open and elegant, maybe - there are certainly different forms available in the UK that vary between the tough stocky plants and these open feathery ones.  Plus the trunking form, too.

Paul,

Thanks for the habitat photo of C. Radicalis.  It's only the 2nd pic I've ever seen of it in habitat. I'm curious, since you explore Mexico, have you ever seen C. Microspadix in habitat, and does the growing range of the two overlap? They are the two most cold hardy Chamaedoreas, and they both thrive in my cold winters and hot summers.

I've found C. radicalis to be very drought tollerent once established. It's one tough little palm. Mine look best when grown in dappled shade, and they fade and burn to some extent in my hot, dry summers. C. microspadix requires more water in the summer months, but it too will take a lot of sun.

I often wonder if there is some other C. species stuck away on some mountain side or a hidden valley in Mexico that has never been discovered, one as tough and cold hardy as C. radicalis.

Dick

Hi Dick.

Well, I've only poked about in a couple of areas - mainly in the drier bits in the northeast looking at succulents - so haven't seen any others in the wild.  And I've only seen radicalis in that one spot.  We did go through Verecruz last time but it was so misty we hardly got to stop at all.  Richard Travis is your man here - he's been going in and around Mexico for years.  

But unknown species?  You bet.  Bound to be.  I don't know much about many plants but, of the ones I know a little bit about, I've seen stuff that doesn't correspond to anything in the books.  That's one of the things that makes travelling there so exciting!

thats a great photo,paul.

Paul,

I meant to tell you I saw your photo log of your trip to Mexico, and how excellent it was. Excellent pictures and very detailed. Though mostly on agavas, I found it very interesting. I loved your narrative too. You even got me interested in agavas, and now I have a few.

There is another Chamaedorea from Mexico that is somewhat cold hardy, though I'm not sure what location. It's Cham. oreophila and it's rather rare in collections and has pretty orange fruit as does C. radicalis and microspadix. It's a single trunked plant and looks something like C elegans, except it's more robust and has a thicker trunk, speckled with little white spots.

It must come from NE mexico or else grow at some altitude, as it seems to like cool nights. It does well in California, but hardly grows in Florida with the warm nights. It will take temps. down to 25F.  Even the male plants are attractive when holding its yellow catcans which hang down, and both sexes have several flower spikes from each node. Maybe something to look for on your next trip to Mexico.

Dick

Matty,

We like C radicalis up here!  Tough as nails, handles drought, freezes, some serious sun...

When mine overgrow an area I rip em out of the ground and transplant em....they never miss a beat and often continue to open spears!  Super easy to transplant.

For the beginning palm enthusiast I always recommend it as the #1 shade palm for our area.

(PalmGuyWC @ Sep. 28 2007,13:31)

QUOTE

There is another Chamaedorea from Mexico that is somewhat cold hardy, though I'm not sure what location. It's Cham. oreophila and it's rather rare in collections and has pretty orange fruit as does C. radicalis and microspadix. It's a single trunked plant and looks something like C elegans, except it's more robust and has a thicker trunk, speckled with little white spots.

It must come from NE mexico or else grow at some altitude, as it seems to like cool nights. It does well in California, but hardly grows in Florida with the warm nights. It will take temps. down to 25F.  Even the male plants are attractive when holding its yellow catcans which hang down, and both sexes have several flower spikes from each node. Maybe something to look for on your next trip to Mexico.

Dick

Thanks Dick,

I'm not familiar with this one......

http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Chamaedorea/oreophila.html

Dick (and Paul) - thank you.  I enjoy putting those travelogues together as, when I look back, it brings the trip alive again.  Even if it is mainly agaves

Of course!! A glance in Hodel reminds me - C. oreophila was one parent of some of your hybrids, wasn't it?  I am at the beginning stage of planning my next trip, as it happens.  And we are probably going to Oaxaca, which so happens to be where oreophila lives... so I will attempt to find a litle more precise information about it's location and try to find it.

I also had a look at the distribution of microspadix - I didn't realise it came from so far north - certainly not far from places I have visited.  So a plant to seek out for sure next time I travel through San Louis Potosi (as I surely will) - wouldn't it be great to find an extra high altitude/northerly population one time!  Given that is is so far north I wonder of the two do overlap?  A certain Mr Travis might know.

But there is more than just Chamaedorea radicalis in those woods.  Here is a pic that shows Brahea dulcis, Brahea moorei and the chamaedorea all in the same camera field!  And if I recall correctly if I had turned around there was a Dioon edule or 3 just behind me.

Edit: I can only echo the comments about Chamaedorea radicalis being robust.  It grows in my garden beautifully in very dry shade where few other plants seem able to cope, flowering and even setting viable seed in England.  For such a delicate, fragile and tropical-looking plant it is amazingly tough.   One of my favourite palms, even if it doesn't have the in-yer-face appeal of the bigger species.

Dear Paul,

Swoon!!!  That is truely a rare photograph to have 3 species growing in one camera frame. Just keep snooping around in those woods and you might find that undiscovered Chamaedorea. My Cham. radicalis and microspadix hold ripe or ripening seeds year round so if another is found, it might do the same.

With all the undescribed agavas you found in Mexico on your last visit, it sounds like there are many areas there still ripe for exploration. It was so nice to have an "arm chair" tour of your last trip. I know it wasn't easy with the rough roads, no road signs, the dust, etc. You guys are lots braver than I am.

Dick

Can anyone attest to oreophila's cold-hardiness? I've got a very nice specimen I purchased that is going to spend the winter in the ground in a protected spot this year. I really like its crown, which is more erect and very distinctive from radicalis and microspadix. I've heard that it will tolerate below 25 no problem. I lost a plumosa at 23F this year, toasted, and cataractarum strugles back from the roots after a freezedown in the low 20s here except in the most canopy-protected spots...but I've seen posts that oreophila has survived where virtually all other chams (other than the trusted radicalis and microspadix) tanked in, if I recall correctly, 20-ish temps. I would also love to see (and trial) those hybrids between all these hardy cousins.

I find that microspadix cannot tolerate any direct sun, only glancing, broken sun. All of my more exposed specimens yellow in the spring before the bananas are up around them to give them shade. Finally they grow a nice crown of new leaves throughout the summer and continue to look good during the winter while the sun is less intense.

I've also heard many reports that elegans is a good rebounder from the roots (and sometimes crowns) in rather severe freezes. But those I've seen in any sun always look pale and chlorotic.

Its very informative to see the habitat photos.  In so many cases palms are growing in open forest,  and clearly like part sun or filtered sun.  I believe its only in the equatorial tropics that you see the kind of "tarzan" dense jungle with palms living in quite dark conditions.

Paul, that place you photographed is my idea of heaven , there is nothing like visiting those places , the feeling and excitement you get from being there is something unforgettable.

As to Chameadorea oreophilus, I have been looking for seeds for some time now, it simply does not seem to be in general cultivation which is a shame.

My experience of C radicalis is the emerging new leaf will adapt to exactly what conditions it emerges into. If you want it to look its best however it needs to be in damp deep shade, because there is surely no palm that produces a deeper more glossy green leathery leaf than that. Its simply beautiful.

Michael,

If I remember correctly, C. oreophila will take temps down to 25F (-4 C) and not much below that. I had one for many years growing in a shelterd spot, and it survived winter after winter until the big freeze in 89/90. I lost most of my Chamaedoreas in that freeze. Even C. radicalis and microspadix were damaged but most came back. I should mention that some canes of C. microspadix were killed and some of the tall growing C. Radicalis.  The low growing, robust C. radicalis seemed to take the cold better, but they were all stressed.

It got so cold that several of my water faucets broke and there were icecicles hanging down as big as my leg. I had a few Rhapis that were totally encased in ice.

C oreophila makes a nice container plant and they can be moved inside during severe freezes. They are particularly pretty when holding  a couple of spikes of their bright orange/red fruit.

Dick

I thought I would bump up this thread on C. radicalis since it's on page 5, and there is another more recent thread on the subject. This thread has some rare pictures of C. radicalis growing in habitat.  C. oreophila mostly got wiped out in the big freeze in N. Calif. but I've seen them growing in S. Cal. This is a very neglected Cham. species, but should be more popular since it's easy to grow, even though a little suceptable to red spider. A good blast from a garden hose underneeth the fronds should keep them in check.

Dick

(PalmGuyWC @ Oct. 14 2007,07:22)

QUOTE

I thought I would bump up this thread on C. radicalis since it's on page 5, and there is another more recent thread on the subject. This thread has some rare pictures of C. radicalis growing in habitat.  C. oreophila mostly got wiped out in the big freeze in N. Calif. but I've seen them growing in S. Cal. This is a very neglected Cham. species, but should be more popular since it's easy to grow, even though a little suceptable to red spider. A good blast from a garden hose underneeth the fronds should keep them in check.

Dick

C. oreophila is not that common here in Oz ,

Dick,  it has been said that Chamaedorea are not long lived palms and seem to lose vigour after a few years and should then be replaced.

Whats your take on this view?

Chris,

I would tend to agree that Chamaedoreas are not long lived, but that depends on what one calls "long lived." Just because of their size and structure, and not having large woody trunks, I would imagine they don't have long life spans such as Sabals, Livistonas, etc. They are vulnerable to the elements as most of them are understory plants, and from time to time they get pelted by falling limbs and other outside forces. Finally if they do grow old and have very tall stems some tend to fall over from their own weight.

I would imagine some might live to be 30 to 50 years old, or perhaps even older. Some that might bend over and touch the ground could reroot as debris falls down and covers the stem, and get a new lease on life. Some are stoloniferous and as they grow away from the mother stems and spread, they could live and reproduce indefinately under ideal conditions.

The truth is very old Chamaedoreas with spindley trunks are not very attractive, and the crowns grow smaller as the palms grow taller. It's always a good idea to have new ones coming along. The beauty of them is they start fruiting from seedlings, sometimes, in less than 5 years, and if both sexes are present, they usually produce ample amounts of seeds. Many are wind pollenated if both sexes are growing in close proximity, but some are insect pollenated. It's usually the wind pollenated ones that we commonly see growing in people's gardens and those that are easy to grow.

The seeds are easy to germinate, and that's part of the reward in growing Chamaedoreas, to see new ones coming along, to replant our gardens, and to share with our friends. Most are also ideal for container culture.

Dick

C. microspadix and C. radicalis reputedly have about the same minimum temperature; both of mine have survived 10F w/ defoliation.  C. radicalis has been lost repeatedly to unknown causes. but microspadix has fluorished and naturalized to some extent.  My male and female radicalis have reached seven feet, and are still in pots.  I had suspected my radicalis problem was inadequate calcium.

Thank You, Paul S!  Your radicalis flourishing on weathered limestone has convinced me; in the ground they go w/ Ca!

michael, my C. microspadix are in direct sum from about 10AM to 3 PM.  They yellow  in the summer, but the same leaves return to healthy green at fall.

When my C. elegans hit the ceiling in the foyer, I moved it to the stair landing directly under a hanging lamp.  It grew to about ten feet before giving out.

Best Wishes, merrill

For excellent information on Chamaedoreas click on Jason Cox's "Kamipalms." Click on his profile and his web site on Chamaedoreas will pop up. He has descriptions and pictures of male and female flowers at anthesis, including C. radicalis. He's obviously put a lot of work into his web site.

Dick

I have both C. radicalis and C. microspadix here in Augusta, GA.  The radicalis has started naturalizing....little babies coming up all over the place.  It is in full morning sun, but afternoon shade.  The microspadix is in shade under other palms and looks terrific.  Neither have shown cold damage to date and they have been outside without protection for at least ten years.

Dick,

Thanks for that !

Sort of treat them like perennials eh !

CHRIS

Hi Joe,

I'm surprised they do so well in Augusta. What was your lowest temp. in the past 10 years? I imagine it can get pretty chilly there sometimes.

I use a heavy mulch under my palms (horse litter) and I have C. radicalis and microspadix coming up eveywhere along with Butias, Trachycarpus and Chamaerops. The Trachycarpus are a real pain and I pull up hundreds of seedlings under the mother trees as it seems every seed germinates.

Many years ago, I started with 4 Cham. radicalis. Over the years they naturalized in a rough area of my yard, one that's neglected. They have formed a hedge and grow under taller palms, and it's litteraly a jungle of chamaedoreas.

I mentioned this in one of the threads before, but I've learned that C. microspadix tends to brown tip with chemical fertilizers, so I use fish emulsion and they do fine.

Dick

Chris,

I just saw your post. I treat ALL palms as perennials, and that's the reason I only grow palms that are cold hardy and have a good chance in my harsh climate. I can always enjoy seeing the exotic tropical palms growing in someone else's garden, knowing that they may have a limited life expectency depending on where they are growing.

We all push the limits, but my exotics are in containers and can be protected in the winter. I really hate spending the summer watching a burned up palm struggling for life.

Dick

(PalmGuyWC @ Oct. 14 2007,12:33)

QUOTE

For excellent information on Chamaedoreas click on Jason Cox's "Kamipalms." Click on his profile and his web site on Chamaedoreas will pop up. He has descriptions and pictures of male and female flowers at anthesis, including C. radicalis. He's obviously put a lot of work into his web site.

Dick

This is one of the reasons I love this site. Tons of great info that would be very difficult to find otherwise.

Here is the picture you spoke of Dick.

From the Kamipalms Website.

Great website Jason.

Right on Matt!  Thanks for posting the pics. That web site is the best I've seen on Chamaedoreas. Jason must be the Chamaedorea King of Australia and I hope he gets to fill in all the blanks of the ones he doesn't have yet.

Dick

Right on Matt!  Thanks for posting the pics. That web site is the best I've seen on Chamaedoreas. Jason must be the Chamaedorea King of Australia and I hope he gets to fill in all the blanks of the ones he doesn't have yet.

Dick

Woops! Sorry.

First time I've had a C. radicalis bloom at such a young age. This is one of several volunteers that's popped up in my yard. That's a needle palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix)  behind it getting ready to flower.