Anyone uses one of those mini green house at $100?

[Hardypalms]

I was thinking about getting 1 or 2 and put them in my unheated garage for seedlings or young small palms.

My garage drops to high 30’s worse and it usually does not last (zone 7b- Southeast USA)

Some sort of safe heating could be provided inside along with a temp sensor with a monitor inside ( Got that already). Yes some seedlings or unsprouted seeds would be zone 10.

I would also put it along a wall that is heated by a room inside like my living room and also along our garage fridge. All the pots would be moved outside when 45 at least for a little while.

Opinions?

Thxs

Pat

[Little Tex]

Maybe you could provide pictures of what you mean? also they would be better outside then in a garage, the whole point of a green house is to absorb the heat of the sun without letting in atmospheric temperatures. In a garage it would probably stay the same temperature, or not too noticable.

[psy460]

few year ago i used indoor grow tent to keep my palm seedling growing while winter. 

growing rate is amazing with good lighting and appropriate watering. 

[Hardypalms]

  On 3/6/2023 at 6:10 PM, Little Tex said:

Maybe you could provide pictures of what you mean? also they would be better outside then in a garage, the whole point of a green house is to absorb the heat of the sun without letting in atmospheric temperatures. In a garage it would probably stay the same temperature, or not too noticable.

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Here you go

Edited March 6, 2023 by Hardypalms

[Hardypalms]

  On 3/6/2023 at 6:34 PM, psy460 said:

few year ago i used indoor grow tent to keep my palm seedling growing while winter. 

growing rate is amazing with good lighting and appropriate watering. 

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Yes lighting is planned. But the goal is to keep alive, growing is secondary.

Thxs

Pat

[Arecaceus]

I think they only make sense if you put them outside or ALSO outside. So that you just can roll them outside when it's not too cold. In a cold, dark garage over winter there is no need for a greenhouse neither for light nor for moisture.

[Hardypalms]

  On 3/6/2023 at 10:13 PM, Hortulanus said:

I think they only make sense if you put them outside or ALSO outside. So that you just can roll them outside when it's not too cold. In a cold, dark garage over winter there is no need for a greenhouse neither for light nor for moisture.

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Ok that makes sense. Still learning. So still for convenience of dragging in and out, the green house would make sense. They would basically be a winter rack that could become some sort of a greenhouse for the warmer month.

What would you suggest to maximize zone 10 seedlings survival in the winter?

I am studying which 10 to try. My criteria are look, how quick they germinate, hardiness and i will select 10a going towards 9b not 10b.

Spare bathroom with lights? And drag outside as weather allows?

Some will die of course, but no sweat. Trying to maximize the 10 survivors.

Not worried about the 8 and 9

Thanks a lot

Pat

 

[Arecaceus]

  On 3/6/2023 at 10:54 PM, Hardypalms said:

Ok that makes sense. Still learning. So still for convenience of dragging in and out, the green house would make sense. They would basically be a winter rack that could become some sort of a greenhouse for the warmer month.

What would you suggest to maximize zone 10 seedlings survival in the winter?

I am studying which 10 to try. My criteria are look, how quick they germinate, hardiness and i will select 10a going towards 9b not 10b.

Spare bathroom with lights? And drag outside as weather allows?

Some will die of course, but no sweat. Trying to maximize the 10 survivors.

Not worried about the 8 and 9

Thanks a lot

Pat

 

Expand  

I think it depends on the type of Zone 10 seedlings. All kinds of species have different requirements. Some can handle prolonged periods of cold temperatures as as long as they are not too cold (below minimum they can handle). Some require long term temperatures above a certain range. Some can handle little light when temperatures are low, some can even when temperatures are high. Some can't handle dark and cool. Some can. Why does zone matter so much? I would go the route of finding what you like and then assess if you can give them the appropriate conditions. Maximising the survival of zone 10 seedlings is a bit too general. Of course warmth, light and dry or wet conditions are usually good for many tropical plants. As you live in Atlanta you might grow things that can handle humidity in the summer. Have you chosen any type of species yet?

[Billeb]

I was thinking of using one of those cuz of my limited space but I ended up building one. I had almost all the lumber and paint. Most expensive part was the greenhouse sheets. I think my total cost was around $400 but it much more legit than a tarp. I’m sure that will work. To the extent you want it too…..maybe not. 
 

I just use mine for cactus, seedlings and 1G/small palms waiting to plant out. It’s roughly 4x8x8. 
 

-dale 

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

I think it would work great in a garage with a little heat underneath like a heat mat or an incandescent bulb if you even would need extra heat at all. A grow light would help. Some negatives to think about...if the sales brochure does not mention that the covering is sun resistant then it is not. In sun you may only get a year or less before the plastic is trash. It looks top heavy so , in a wind, you would need to keep heavier stuff on the bottom and lighter stuff up top. Do the wheels lock? Would not want to come home to find it blew into the street or off a little edge and spilled all the plants.

[Hardypalms]

  On 3/7/2023 at 12:20 AM, Billeb said:

I was thinking of using one of those cuz of my limited space but I ended up building one. I had almost all the lumber and paint. Most expensive part was the greenhouse sheets. I think my total cost was around $400 but it much more legit than a tarp. I’m sure that will work. To the extent you want it too…..maybe not. 
 

I just use mine for cactus, seedlings and 1G/small palms waiting to plant out. It’s roughly 4x8x8. 
 

-dale 

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Here you go! Neat. I m not handy so it’s better if i buy one.

Thanks for sharing

Pat

[Hardypalms]

  On 3/7/2023 at 12:46 AM, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

I think it would work great in a garage with a little heat underneath like a heat mat or an incandescent bulb if you even would need extra heat at all. A grow light would help. Some negatives to think about...if the sales brochure does not mention that the covering is sun resistant then it is not. In sun you may only get a year or less before the plastic is trash. It looks top heavy so , in a wind, you would need to keep heavier stuff on the bottom and lighter stuff up top. Do the wheels lock? Would not want to come home to find it blew into the street or off a little edge and spilled all the plants.

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Jeff

Lots of good points. I was really thinking like in my original post to keep it in the garage in the winter. Again like you and i said a heat source could be added (You suggest heat mat). My goal would be when at the worse in the winter my garage is 38F (It was 38F in my garage this winter when that arctic cold wave hit us all and it was 6F outside), well it could be 43F for example in the green house. That would just help i think, and save me a few “Move them all out” action LOL

Thanks for the answer

Pat

[Hardypalms]

  On 3/6/2023 at 11:55 PM, Hortulanus said:

I think it depends on the type of Zone 10 seedlings. All kinds of species have different requirements. Some can handle prolonged periods of cold temperatures as as long as they are not too cold (below minimum they can handle). Some require long term temperatures above a certain range. Some can handle little light when temperatures are low, some can even when temperatures are high. Some can't handle dark and cool. Some can. Why does zone matter so much? I would go the route of finding what you like and then assess if you can give them the appropriate conditions. Maximising the survival of zone 10 seedlings is a bit too general. Of course warmth, light and dry or wet conditions are usually good for many tropical plants. As you live in Atlanta you might grow things that can handle humidity in the summer. Have you chosen any type of species yet?

Expand  

I love to try crazy stuff. You only hear of the likes of R. Hystrix, S. minor, B. capitata, T. fortunei, W. filifera and a few others in z7b 

They are great and cover my yard but growing one that thrives in New-Caledonia thrills me, even if only for a summer or a year or two. I mention zone 10 meaning tropical palms. I do zone7-8-9 too but it’s easier.

Here are examples but still working on it.

Burretiokentia hapala

Chambeyronia macrocarpa 

Various Licalua

Chuniophoenix Hainanensis

This is just an example above. I m still working on the list of what i can find and at what price in the end. I have a deadline of sowing mid May.

Pat

[Merlyn]

My wife bought me one of the plastic greenhouses like the one you posted above @Hardypalms.  It was not too sturdy but was good enough for lightweight pots like seedlings and maybe some 4 inchers.  If you started putting anything more than a couple of 6 inch pots on there the assembly probably would fall apart.  BUT...on the back porch it retained humidity and was a lot warmer during the day than the surroundings.  However it did NOT provide much in the way of insulation, so the inside temps at night were pretty much the same as the rest of the porch. 

With some heat sources inside it would probably retain some additional heat compared to a garage.  Keep in mind the "R value" of a sheet of plastic is less than 1.  As a back-of-the-napkin calculation, a greenhouse with R1 insulation and 75sqft of surface area would lose 750BTU/hour to keep a 10F difference between inside and outside.  That's about 250 watts.  So if you had a 6 foot tall 3' x 3' greenhouse and you wanted a 5F inside-to-outside delta you'd need about 125 watts of continuous heat sources.  A heat mat on each shelf would probably accomplish that.

[Arecaceus]

  On 3/7/2023 at 2:24 AM, Hardypalms said:

I love to try crazy stuff. You only hear of the likes of R. Hystrix, S. minor, B. capitata, T. fortunei, W. filifera and a few others in z7b 

They are great and cover my yard but growing one that thrives in New-Caledonia thrills me, even if only for a summer or a year or two. I mention zone 10 meaning tropical palms. I do zone7-8-9 too but it’s easier.

Here are examples but still working on it.

Burretiokentia hapala

Chambeyronia macrocarpa 

Various Licalua

Chuniophoenix Hainanensis

This is just an example above. I m still working on the list of what i can find and at what price in the end. I have a deadline of sowing mid May.

Pat

Expand  

Those are all fields I haven't dived into too much. As I have a limited amount of space I'm not growing very tropical stuff (yet). The only one that I'm currently growing from the ones you've mentioned is Chuniophoenix hainanensis. They have not germinated yet but were only sown about a week ago. They are actually quite coldy hardy from what I've read. Might be a solid Zone 9 palm. When I have more space one day especially for potted plants and maybe a conservatory I'll try more tropical palms.

[Hardypalms]

  On 3/7/2023 at 1:27 PM, Merlyn said:

My wife bought me one of the plastic greenhouses like the one you posted above @Hardypalms.  It was not too sturdy but was good enough for lightweight pots like seedlings and maybe some 4 inchers.  If you started putting anything more than a couple of 6 inch pots on there the assembly probably would fall apart.  BUT...on the back porch it retained humidity and was a lot warmer during the day than the surroundings.  However it did NOT provide much in the way of insulation, so the inside temps at night were pretty much the same as the rest of the porch. 

With some heat sources inside it would probably retain some additional heat compared to a garage.  Keep in mind the "R value" of a sheet of plastic is less than 1.  As a back-of-the-napkin calculation, a greenhouse with R1 insulation and 75sqft of surface area would lose 750BTU/hour to keep a 10F difference between inside and outside.  That's about 250 watts.  So if you had a 6 foot tall 3' x 3' greenhouse and you wanted a 5F inside-to-outside delta you'd need about 125 watts of continuous heat sources.  A heat mat on each shelf would probably accomplish that.

Expand  

Merlyn

That’s good news indeed The heating mats on each shelf are a good idea. The rack can be left outside during the day and keep them 5 to 10 warmer and at night roll the whole thing in the garage. You are good at math 👍🏻

Thxs

Pat

[Hardypalms]

  On 3/7/2023 at 2:24 PM, Hortulanus said:

Those are all fields I haven't dived into too much. As I have a limited amount of space I'm not growing very tropical stuff (yet). The only one that I'm currently growing from the ones you've mentioned is Chuniophoenix hainanensis. They have not germinated yet but were only sown about a week ago. They are actually quite coldy hardy from what I've read. Might be a solid Zone 9 palm. When I have more space one day especially for potted plants and maybe a conservatory I'll try more tropical palms.

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It’s like a first round elimination i m doing with the zone 10 palms. I have books, search here, ask questions and palmpedia. 
 

I eliminate the ones listed as not good indoors, sensitive to like 45 or below, if i don’t like the look, if the seeds are listed at 1 year or more to sprout and a couple other minor things.

when i will be done with round one and left with like 20 palms that meet the criteria. Then availability and cost will come in. I want 5 species in the end.

Pat

[Merlyn]

@Hardypalmsthe calculation is only approximate, and assumes that there's no air leaks.  But the "medium" heat mats are 20-50W each, so one on each shelf should be enough to get you at least a few degrees of warmth plus direct warmth to the pots..  Making sure there's no significant leaks is important for insulation.  House duct and roof/attic leaks to the interior is a major source of heat/AC loss.  The same thing applies to your very small plastic house. 

[Arecaceus]

  On 3/7/2023 at 6:01 PM, Hardypalms said:

It’s like a first round elimination i m doing with the zone 10 palms. I have books, search here, ask questions and palmpedia. 
 

I eliminate the ones listed as not good indoors, sensitive to like 45 or below, if i don’t like the look, if the seeds are listed at 1 year or more to sprout and a couple other minor things.

when i will be done with round one and left with like 20 palms that meet the criteria. Then availability and cost will come in. I want 5 species in the end.

Pat

Expand  

Sounds like a great plan! Good luck with this! Unfortunately I can't help you much with this as I'm not so experienced with those type of palms.

[Hardypalms]

  On 3/7/2023 at 6:08 PM, Merlyn said:

@Hardypalmsthe calculation is only approximate, and assumes that there's no air leaks.  But the "medium" heat mats are 20-50W each, so one on each shelf should be enough to get you at least a few degrees of warmth plus direct warmth to the pots..  Making sure there's no significant leaks is important for insulation.  House duct and roof/attic leaks to the interior is a major source of heat/AC loss.  The same thing applies to your very small plastic house. 

Expand  

Thxs for the help 👍🏻

 

Pat

[Hardypalms]

  On 3/7/2023 at 6:21 PM, Hortulanus said:

Sounds like a great plan! Good luck with this! Unfortunately I can't help you much with this as I'm not so experienced with those type of palms.

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You did a lot to help me.

Thxs a lot

Pat

[PalmatierMeg]

I don’t see the logic of having a flimsy - and that thing is flimsy - little greenhouse to keep a small number of cold sensitive palm seedlings in a cold garage all winter. Bear in mind that those 5 shelves in a  6’ tall x 2’ wide structure will average 12” or less between them. You would have to grow the shortest palm seedlings in the world to cram them inside that thing. Why go to all that trouble and expense when you could set up a grow station in a spare corner or room or the basement of your heated house? You can still add grow lights and heat mats and probably should. Have you checked out the indoor growth systems by PTers in northern states and Canada? Those people know what they are doing.

I have a number of small greenhouses on our back lanai I got last year for my more delicate container palms. They get plenty of light and I need shade cloth on top of the bird cage screening to protect them from the sun. I didn’t heat them this past winter and during the week of abnormally cold temps just before Christmas I brought the most sensitive seedlings indoors. On other nights that went below 50F I zipped the greenhouses closed to block north winds. The system worked because daytime temps were usually 70F or higher with sun or a few clouds. The closed up greenhouses held on to enough heat and humidity to carry over until the following sunrise and the cycle repeated. During warm weather I leave the greenhouses open so air circulates but they block the wind.

[Hardypalms]

  On 3/7/2023 at 6:21 PM, Hortulanus said:

Sounds like a great plan! Good luck with this! Unfortunately I can't help you much with this as I'm not so experienced with those type of palms.

Expand  

You did a lot to help me.

Thxs a lot

Pat

[Hardypalms]

  On 3/8/2023 at 4:37 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

I don’t see the logic of having a flimsy - and that thing is flimsy - little greenhouse to keep a small number of cold sensitive palm seedlings in a cold garage all winter. Bear in mind that those 5 shelves in a  6’ tall x 2’ wide structure will average 12” or less between them. You would have to grow the shortest palm seedlings in the world to cram them inside that thing. Why go to all that trouble and expense when you could set up a grow station in a spare corner or room or the basement of your heated house? You can still add grow lights and heat mats and probably should. Have you checked out the indoor growth systems by PTers in northern states and Canada? Those people know what they are doing.

I have a number of small greenhouses on our back lanai I got last year for my more delicate container palms. They get plenty of light and I need shade cloth on top of the bird cage screening to protect them from the sun. I didn’t heat them this past winter and during the week of abnormally cold temps just before Christmas I brought the most sensitive seedlings indoors. On other nights that went below 50F I zipped the greenhouses closed to block north winds. The system worked because daytime temps were usually 70F or higher with sun or a few clouds. The closed up greenhouses held on to enough heat and humidity to carry over until the following sunrise and the cycle repeated. During warm weather I leave the greenhouses open so air circulates but they block the wind.

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Meg

You make a lot of sense. This is why i m asking opinions here. I m already getting ready for when November gets here. I have thought about setting up an area in the garage or the house with grow lights, heatmats and who knows what.

Now you also mention that you have little greenhouses so i am also confused. A pic would help me. Also what are pters (Palmetiers?)

Thanks Meg

Pat

Edited March 9, 2023 by Hardypalms

[PalmatierMeg]

Pat, here are the mini greenhouses I just finished loading up on the back lanai. The white ones on wheels came from Amazon, I believe. My husband attached them to wheeled dollies and added wooden shelves. The shelves and floors contain gaps that let water out air flow in. The peaked green ones came from Aldi in 2020. We assembled them then zip-tied each to a plastic shelving unit so pots didn't sit on the ground. I put smaller or more delicate palms inside where humidity stays high and plants are protected from drying winds. On especially chilly or windy nights last winter, I zipped all greenhouses closed at night.

[Hardypalms]

Wow, this set up is really neat.  I m going to look into something like that. Planning ahead. It amazes me that you have to protect some palms in Cape Coral, so nice and tropical down there 🌴

Thxs for sharing

Pat

Edited March 9, 2023 by Hardypalms

[wixxy]

  On 3/6/2023 at 4:32 PM, Hardypalms said:

I was thinking about getting 1 or 2 and put them in my unheated garage for seedlings or young small palms.

My garage drops to high 30’s worse and it usually does not last (zone 7b- Southeast USA)

Some sort of safe heating could be provided inside along with a temp sensor with a monitor inside ( Got that already). Yes some seedlings or unsprouted seeds would be zone 10.

I would also put it along a wall that is heated by a room inside like my living room and also along our garage fridge. All the pots would be moved outside when 45 at least for a little while.

Opinions?

Thxs

Pat

Expand  

High 30s shouldn’t be too detrimental for most seedlings, especially if you provide some supplemental heating. Since you already have a temp sensor and monitor, you can easily keep an eye on conditions. Placing the pots along the heated wall and near the garage fridge will also help maintain a slightly warmer microclimate. Just ensure any heating devices are safe and appropriate for the space. Moving the pots outside when it’s 45+ degrees sounds perfect. Good luck!