Kentiopsis oliviformis. Experiences?

[Peachs]

 

Growth rate?

Will it survive in zone 8b?

It seems surprisingly resistant to cold, but it is not a very well known palm.

 

Thanks.

[James B]

8b? No. This is a 9b Palm. It will take down to 26-28 briefly. Comparable to Chambeyronia Macrocarpa or A.Cunninghamiana. 

[Sandy Loam]

At my other place up in Gainesville, FL (barely zone 9a; formerly designated as zone 8b), Kentiopsis Oliviformis was the only crownshaft palm that survived a big 23 Fahrenheit degree freeze.   The temperature only briefly hit 23 degrees, but still, it was enough to kill many palms.   All of my other crownshaft palms were killed, including some tropical palms that are native to the south of Florida:  Roystonea Regia and Pseudphoenix Sargentii.   If I am not mistaken, that happened back in January 2017 or thereabouts.      

 

Despite this, I do not recommend Kentiopsis Oliviformis because it simply is not fast-enough growing to be worth your while.  It might be a fast-grower in some climates, but certainly not in northern Florida.  Also, it won't look good in years when your temperatures drop below 28 fahrenheit.  You don't want to be looking at brown fronds when you can been looking at green fronds on a CIDP, a Washingtonia or a queen palm. 

 

Someone else now owns that Gainesville house, but I should go back up there and see what survived the big Christmas 2022 freeze.  I am told that it was precedent-setting freeze.  Even my Fackatchee Royal Palm is likely dead after that freeze.              

[BayAndroid]

I was just researching this in a bunch of old threads. Great timing lol... I have one in a pot in the garage (9b here). I'm trying to decide whether I should plant it out this Spring, and if I do, what the location will be. I'm thinking I'll give it a full sun next to a brick wall. I'm used to watering the hell out of a Cunninghamiana that's planted in the hottest location of my yard. I'll probably need to water this one heavily as well. 8b is not going to work, I'm already feeling like I need to be careful in my 9b location.

[ruskinPalms]

I may try one of these eventually. Definitely a beautiful palm. There are not too many crownshafted palms that are long term hardy in 9B Florida. Roystonea is warm 9B long term hardy only because it is massive and is bud hardy, the foliage is not hardy at all. Foxtails are a close second.  It would be nice to have a reliable non-plumose pinnate crownshafted palm that works here. I do have C. macrocarpa in the ground growing but it is tiny, I don’t plan to protect it during freezes. I want to see if it can make it.  C. oliviformis is on my radar though. 

[Merlyn]

I had a 7g size in the backyard, it was defoliated at 24-26F with frost, but did eventually throw a new spear and lived.  It took heavy damage again this winter at about 28ish with some frost, but is already growing a new spear.  Small seedlings about 1-2ft tall died at 28ish.  Flamethrowers out in the open died at 28 or higher, with or without frost, usually by crown rot.  I'd rate it tougher than Macrocarpa by at least a bit.  Smaller Archontos did a bit better at the same temps and exposure.  9B with some frost protection...sure.  8B...probably no chance of long-term survival.

[ruskinPalms]

1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

I had a 7g size in the backyard, it was defoliated at 24-26F with frost, but did eventually throw a new spear and lived.  It took heavy damage again this winter at about 28ish with some frost, but is already growing a new spear.  Small seedlings about 1-2ft tall died at 28ish.  Flamethrowers out in the open died at 28 or higher, with or without frost, usually by crown rot.  I'd rate it tougher than Macrocarpa by at least a bit.  Smaller Archontos did a bit better at the same temps and exposure.  9B with some frost protection...sure.  8B...probably no chance of long-term survival.

Your experience is very encouraging. I need to try to find one and give it a try. 

[ruskinPalms]

But yeah. For the original question. I doubt it would make it in 8B without extreme protection such as building a greenhouse frame around it. 

[RedRabbit]

It has zero chance in 8b. I had one at an old property and it was a little more cold sensitive than my A. cunninghamiana, which would also have zero chance in 8b.

[Peachs]

Thank you all!

[Merlyn]

10 hours ago, ruskinPalms said:

Your experience is very encouraging. I need to try to find one and give it a try. 

I'd think it's a good palm for anywhere in Tampa or Orlando areas, as long as you aren't in a really cold spot.  I'm just NW of the urban heat island, easily 5F colder than the middle of Orlando.  If you have some frost protection that would be ideal.  There's a big one at Leu Gardens in the Tropical Stream Gardens area.  It's in full dense canopy and growing great.

[BayAndroid]

14 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I had a 7g size in the backyard, it was defoliated at 24-26F with frost, but did eventually throw a new spear and lived.  It took heavy damage again this winter at about 28ish with some frost, but is already growing a new spear.  Small seedlings about 1-2ft tall died at 28ish.  Flamethrowers out in the open died at 28 or higher, with or without frost, usually by crown rot.  I'd rate it tougher than Macrocarpa by at least a bit.  Smaller Archontos did a bit better at the same temps and exposure.  9B with some frost protection...sure.  8B...probably no chance of long-term survival.

Hmmm... Based off of this advice, I feel as though I may need to consider some canopy strategy.. 

[sonoranfans]

formerly Kentiopsis Oliviformis, now Chambeyronia Oliviformis is not near 8b, it will die, period.  The plusses of this palm are that in  my observation a small 3 gallon size plant in the ground in my yard in 2010 had no overhead and 28F plus frost two consecutive nights.  THe Oliviformis spear survived intact along with a nearby teddy bear of 7 gal size(in ground).  Both had intact spear with 100% foliage burn, while (3-15 gal size) royals foxtails and foxy ladies(no hybrid vigor there, LOL!) all were totally fried and peroxide didnt help the dramatic decline to fungal infection.  Dypsis pembana similar size in ground(3) all lost foliage and pulled spears and were treated with H2O2 with 2 surviving and looking good to this day.  The frost part/ with intact spear was superior to my small beccariophoenix alfredii of the same size that had the exposed spear fried in the frost, but is ~30' tall today.  Today in 2023, My kentiopsis (4) range from 20 to about 30' overall 12 and a half years later.  Their foliage is thick and hard compared to archies so they shred contacting archie(and royal) leaflets in the wind.  Its also a tougher waxier leaf than my other chambeyronias, I think more wax and fiber content.  The wax helps a lot against bud rot by repelling condensing moisture.  The downside of the oliviformis is that it doesnt replace fried or hurricane stripped leaves as fast as archies or royals.  In colder areas they might be even slower than here in 10a in recovery from cold damage.  But the waxy bud of these Oliviformis, IMO, makes them a bit more cold tolerant than my archies or royals when they are all small.  As they grow tall those leaves most likely see warmer air, up to 6-8 degrees warmer depending on the type of weather event.  IN still winds tall palms can gain in cold tolerance at least cold reported on the news vs at the bud site.  When in arizona I measured a 7 degree difference in cold event in my yard, only diefference was overhead canopy.  I think canopy works better out west though as the real cold e4vents are mostly radiative unlikd florida.  Zone pushing is a roll of the dice though odds are better out west due to the greater radiative cold event weather.  2018 was a  8 hour 30 degree advective even here and all my taller crownshafts even to 35' were burned good..  Zone 8b is mule palm and butia jubaaes hybrid territory.  and those can be gorgeous palms in their own right.

[BayAndroid]

30 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

formerly Kentiopsis Oliviformis, now Chambeyronia Oliviformis is not near 8b, it will die, period.  The plusses of this palm are that in  my observation a small 3 gallon size plant in the ground in my yard in 2010 had no overhead and 28F plus frost two consecutive nights.  THe Oliviformis spear survived intact along with a nearby teddy bear of 7 gal size(in ground).  Both had intact spear with 100% foliage burn, while (3-15 gal size) royals foxtails and foxy ladies(no hybrid vigor there, LOL!) all were totally fried and peroxide didnt help the dramatic decline to fungal infection.  Dypsis pembana similar size in ground(3) all lost foliage and pulled spears and were treated with H2O2 with 2 surviving and looking good to this day.  The frost part/ with intact spear was superior to my small beccariophoenix alfredii of the same size that had the exposed spear fried in the frost, but is ~30' tall today.  Today in 2023, My kentiopsis (4) range from 20 to about 30' overall 12 and a half years later.  Their foliage is thick and hard compared to archies so they shred contacting archie(and royal) leaflets in the wind.  Its also a tougher waxier leaf than my other chambeyronias, I think more wax and fiber content.  The wax helps a lot against bud rot by repelling condensing moisture.  The downside of the oliviformis is that it doesnt replace fried or hurricane stripped leaves as fast as archies or royals.  In colder areas they might be even slower than here in 10a in recovery from cold damage.  But the waxy bud of these Oliviformis, IMO, makes them a bit more cold tolerant than my archies or royals when they are all small.  As they grow tall those leaves most likely see warmer air, up to 6-8 degrees warmer depending on the type of weather event.  IN still winds tall palms can gain in cold tolerance at least cold reported on the news vs at the bud site.  When in arizona I measured a 7 degree difference in cold event in my yard, only diefference was overhead canopy.  I think canopy works better out west though as the real cold e4vents are mostly radiative unlikd florida.  Zone pushing is a roll of the dice though odds are better out west due to the greater radiative cold event weather.  2018 was a  8 hour 30 degree advective even here and all my taller crownshafts even to 35' were burned good..  Zone 8b is mule palm and butia jubaaes hybrid territory.  and those can be gorgeous palms in their own right.

I think all of this sounds very accurate and gives me a good idea of what to expect. Much appreciated! You're right about the cold events out here in California... The threat is basically radiative cold events. Wind is always a benefit to us, as opposed to the still clear cold nights. In this case, the canopy is one of the only options to keep the frost off.