Desperate to save rare seeds!

[VikkiP]

Greetings.  I am brand new here.  My parents were active IPS members and I inherited a bag of palm seeds including Tectiphiala ferox, Sabal maritiama, Arenga australasica,  Actinorhytus calapparia, Dypsis lanceolata, and Coccothrinax argentta as well as some unlabeled seeds and some red ginger seeds.

I don't know how old these seeds are but they are certainly not "fresh".  I want to try to start at least some of these seeds, knowing that I cannot grow them to maturity.  I do, however, have a 35 year old Washingtonia that is essentially a bonsai growing here in Michigan, it's only 4 feet tall and summers outdoors/winters indoors.  I also grow a few varieties of citrus and bananas indoors, as well as bougainvillea, plumeria, and heliconia, so to the extent that a palm-friendly indoor climate can be provided, I can host it.  

Can one tell whether a seed is too old to germinate before attempting germination?  What can be done to promote germination after a long sleep?  The T. ferox are so incredibly rare that I cannot in good conscience just toss them out without trying to grow them.  While some of the others are less rare,  they're all still thrilling to me.  I'm trying the C. argentta and the red ginger seeds for starters.

A photo of the T. ferox seeds attached below.

Edited February 22, 2023 by VikkiP

[Darold Petty]

I have no advice, but Welcome to Palmtalk !  

[Kim]

Hi Vikki, and welcome to PalmTalk! 

I think it's great that you will experiment with the Coccothrinax and red ginger seeds. There are several methods in use for germination, and with a search you will find many posts about methods, some quite detailed. Non-fresh seeds of ultra-tropical plants are unlikely to produce successful germination, unfortunately. Conversely, seeds from more arid climates can sometimes lie dormant for decades and still germinate. But I have no clue if any of your seeds will fall into that category or not.

That sums up my entire knowledge of seeds and germination, so I'm not much help! Michigan's climate is challenging, and I am impressed that you can successfully grow citrus and your other non-cold tolerant plants indoors. The key obstacle for you with the more tropical plants, as I see it, is humidity. While citrus and bougainvillea can thrive in drier conditions, more tropical species will be challenged. I hope those with experience in your endeavors will add better and more helpful information. I have witnessed the successful germination and growth of Hyophorbe indica, a palm from Reunion Island east of Madagascar, and this was in southern Sweden! (indoors, of course) So I wish you the best of luck!

[Austinpalm]

You might put them in water for a couple of days.  If they sink, they might still be good.  Good luck and welcome to Palmtalk.

[realarch]

You might as well give it a go, nothing to lose at this point. You can try the baggie method or plant straight away into quality potting soil, don’t plant them too deep though. 
I would think germination is unlikely, but you never know. 

Thoughtful post Kim.

Tim

[VikkiP]

1 hour ago, Austinpalm said:

You might put them in water for a couple of days.  If they sink, they might still be good.  Good luck and welcome to Palmtalk.

I put the Coccothrinax and red ginger seeds in lukewarm water overnight.  One of the C. seeds was a floater, but by this afternoon it was apparent that there was a dehydrated fleshy skin around the seed, so I gently scrubbed it off and it sank with the others.  Same with 3 of the four ginger seeds.  I put the seeds in two sandwich ziplock bags in sterilized perlite, and placed them on a high shelf adjacent to the wood stove in the plant room where it's a nice range of 85-90F dropping a few degrees in the early morning hours.  If these common seeds sprout, I have hope for others.  I don't want to soak any or float test any that I'm not prepared to start, and many or most of these palms are not amenable to growing in a home.  Our sunroom has a cathedral ceiling with approximately 12' to the peak, and the bananas and yuccas are up there at the peak, but I can cut them back if I need to, not so with the palms.

For humidity, we have a 90 gallon indoor fish pond with 2 pond misters.  Our tropical plants do reasonably well, certainly not as well as they would in their native conditions, but we have year round crops of Meyer lemon, Limon mandarina, and Mexican lime.  Bird of Paradise blooms multiple times a year, the orchids are all in bloom, cannas are multiplying and preparing to bloom, epiphyllums are blooming intermittently.  It's a great "getaway" right in our own home while an ice storm is going on outside.

Edited February 22, 2023 by VikkiP

[VikkiP]

1 hour ago, Austinpalm said:

You might put them in water for a couple of days.  If they sink, they might still be good.  Good luck and welcome to Palmtalk.

Austinpalm, are you active in the IPS in your area?  My parents were in Harlingen and IPS members for many years.  Their yard was full, perhaps overfull, of beautiful palms and cycads.

[Austinpalm]

1 hour ago, VikkiP said:

Austinpalm, are you active in the IPS in your area?  My parents were in Harlingen and IPS members for many years.  Their yard was full, perhaps overfull, of beautiful palms and cycads.

Hello VikkiP,  I have been a member of PSST for several years.  I started when I lived in Austin.  Moved to SPI about 3 years ago just before all the in person meetings stopped due to covid.  We actually have our first  in person meeting next month.  Am really looking forward to it. 

[Tyrone]

7 hours ago, VikkiP said:

Greetings.  I am brand new here.  My parents were active IPS members and I inherited a bag of palm seeds including Tectiphiala ferox, Sabal maritiama, Arenga australasica,  Actinorhytus calapparia, Dypsis lanceolata, and Coccothrinax argentta as well as some unlabeled seeds and some red ginger seeds.

I don't know how old these seeds are but they are certainly not "fresh".  I want to try to start at least some of these seeds, knowing that I cannot grow them to maturity.  I do, however, have a 35 year old Washingtonia that is essentially a bonsai growing here in Michigan, it's only 4 feet tall and summers outdoors/winters indoors.  I also grow a few varieties of citrus and bananas indoors, as well as bougainvillea, plumeria, and heliconia, so to the extent that a palm-friendly indoor climate can be provided, I can host it.  

Can one tell whether a seed is too old to germinate before attempting germination?  What can be done to promote germination after a long sleep?  The T. ferox are so incredibly rare that I cannot in good conscience just toss them out without trying to grow them.  While some of the others are less rare,  they're all still thrilling to me.  I'm trying the C. argentta and the red ginger seeds for starters.

A photo of the T. ferox seeds attached below.

Wow. T ferox seeds. I would soak these seeds changing water daily until they sink Then put them in a plastic baggy with moist (not wet) spaghnum moss. Keep the seeds warm at 24-30C with a day night fluctuation if you can. Maybe, just maybe they will come up. There’s reportedly only 30 of them left in the wild.

I hope to see this species in habitat soon. I hope yours come up. 

[VikkiP]

7 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

Wow. T ferox seeds. I would soak these seeds changing water daily until they sink Then put them in a plastic baggy with moist (not wet) spaghnum moss. Keep the seeds warm at 24-30C with a day night fluctuation if you can. Maybe, just maybe they will come up. There’s reportedly only 30 of them left in the wild.

I hope to see this species in habitat soon. I hope yours come up. 

I really should rehome these to someone knowledgeable to give them the best opportunity.  The advice you've given aligns with what I read last night, other than the moss, which was not mentioned.  I likely have some on hand, if not it's nearby.  The seeds are all packaged and labeled, but I am doing my best to confirm, at least visually and descriptively, that the seeds are what they say they are.  I have no idea how to verify the T. ferox as there does not seem to be much information available.

I know little, definitely not enough, about palm seeds.  

[SeanK]

Welcome to Palmtalk.

Have faith. A Phoenix dactylifera was germinated in 2005 from a 2000- year old seed found in the Judean desert.

[N8ALLRIGHT]

Glad to see you getting some input. I had no idea just how rare the Tectiphiala ferox is (hell I had no idea what it was) Might be worth reaching out to some botanical gardens or sanctuaries in south Florida or better yet Hawaii to hopefully preserve these palms( if viable 🤞) and get them in the ground. It'd be a fitting and wonderful tribute to your parents that future generations could enjoy!

[mike in kurtistown]

I know that Jeff at Floribunda (Hawaii Island) would be quite happy to have those T. ferox seeds. (So would I, for that matter.)

[iDesign]

2 hours ago, mike in kurtistown said:

I know that Jeff at Floribunda (Hawaii Island) would be quite happy to have those T. ferox seeds. (So would I, for that matter.)

Floribunda would be an awesome placement since Jeff has so much experience not only growing palms, but in distributing endangered palms to collectors - https://www.floribunda.xyz/pricelist/

@VikkiP - for what it's worth, I like the suggestion of passing them (gingerly) to a palm germinating expert (of which there are many here on Palmtalk). I germinate seeds myself, but there's a definite learning curve, and it would be a shame for these seeds to not have their best chance. Perhaps it could include as part of the deal that if the person has success you would get to have one of the less-rare of the plants back in exchange (to grow indoors)? Sounds like the seeds are pretty sentimental to you. Either way, thank you for your efforts. ❤️

P.S. Don't send them to a website called "Rare Palm Seeds" (even if they offer to pay you for them). They have a bad reputation here for letting seeds sit for long periods, which is not what these seeds need right now since they're already quite old.

[VikkiP]

19 minutes ago, iDesign said:

Floribunda would be an awesome placement since Jeff has so much experience not only growing palms, but in distributing endangered palms to collectors - https://www.floribunda.xyz/pricelist/

@VikkiP - for what it's worth, I like the suggestion of passing them (gingerly) to a palm germinating expert (of which there are many here on Palmtalk). I germinate seeds myself, but there's a definite learning curve, and it would be a shame for these seeds to not have their best chance. Perhaps it could include as part of the deal that if the person has success you would get to have one of the less-rare of the plants back in exchange (to grow indoors)? Sounds like the seeds are pretty sentimental to you. Either way, thank you for your efforts. ❤️

P.S. Don't send them to a website called "Rare Palm Seeds" (even if they offer to pay you for them). They have a bad reputation here for letting seeds sit for long periods, which is not what these seeds need right now since they're already quite old.

Thank you for this.  If anyone knows what T. ferox seeds are supposed to look like so that I can be at least fairly confident that they are what they are labeled as, that would be a great help as it is not my intention to mislead anyone into spending months just waiting for them to try to sprout.  After looking at photos of that ferocious looking palm, it's not something I'd want in my house!!!  Floribunda sounds like a great home for them.  I am not sure if any of the other seeds are of interest, and it will be interesting to see if the ginger and palm I am attempting show signs of life.  

Since I live in a bitterly cold climate,  I will start a conversation with Floribunda and see where it goes as I don't want to kill off any chance of germination by freezing.  By the time warmer weather arrives, here's hoping the seeds find a new home.

[VikkiP]

I decided to try to start some of the more common seeds - red ginger and a Florida palmetto - and after 3 weeks, no sprouting is evident.

I then took another variety where there were many hard shelled seeds, and cut one open.  The kernel is hard and tan with no signs of life.

I don't have any hope for the others, but once the weather warms up (i.e. ground thaws) here in Michigan, I'll give them a flowerbed burial.  If anything grows, great, but I'm not expecting any positive results.  I'm going to crack open one of the labeled T. ferox and see if the kernels show any signs of life, or if they are petrified.

[Jubaea_James760]

Looking at the Tectiphiala ferox seeds picture without knowing anything about them I would of thought they were Encephalartos seeds but the hairy fibers on the seeds throws me off a bit. I tried looking up T. ferox seeds but got nothing on the web. 

Goodluck on the T. ferox, it's a cool looking palm! 

[LJG]

14 minutes ago, Jubaea_James760 said:

Looking at the Tectiphiala ferox seeds picture without knowing anything about them I would of thought they were Encephalartos seeds but the hairy fibers on the seeds throws me off a bit. I tried looking up T. ferox seeds but got nothing on the web. 

Goodluck on the T. ferox, it's a cool looking palm! 

Exactly, bet it’s Encephalartos ferox. It certainly isn’t T ferox. Doesn’t match description at all. 

[fr8train]

On 2/22/2023 at 9:28 AM, VikkiP said:

I do, however, have a 35 year old Washingtonia that is essentially a bonsai growing here in Michigan, it's only 4 feet tall and summers outdoors/winters indoors. 

Could you post a photo of it? I'm curious as to how it would look at that age. 

[VikkiP]

8 minutes ago, fr8train said:

Could you post a photo of it? I'm curious as to how it would look at that age. 

The Washingtonia is certainly not well suited for growing in Michigan.  It summers outdoors and is brought indoors for 8 months.  It essentially replaces fronds and no more.  It's the size of a one year old grown in the RGV.  I grew it from seeds I picked up at Whataburger in Harlingen TX 🙂 

[fr8train]

10 minutes ago, VikkiP said:

The Washingtonia is certainly not well suited for growing in Michigan.  It summers outdoors and is brought indoors for 8 months.  It essentially replaces fronds and no more.  It's the size of a one year old grown in the RGV.  I grew it from seeds I picked up at Whataburger in Harlingen TX 🙂 

That's really interesting to see, thanks for posting