Endangered Madagascar Species

[Scott]

Excuse me if this sounds naive or elementary but...

After reading an article in IPS Journal June 2007 about a new species of Beccariophoenix that was discovered, an old question I had came to mind about some of the palms from Madagascar.

With the various types becoming so plentiful here, why are so many endangered there? Habitat destruction is of course listed, also palm cabbage (which I'm totally unfamiliar with). But does the demand for seed contribute? It does mention the felling of trees for this purpose too.

Is there a program there for replenishing the various palms that are on the endangered list? ???

[metalfan]

I don't know the answer to that, but, because I have an indoor climate controlled greenspace for my palms, so can grow pretty much most stuff that doesn;t get too TALL, when I chose my palms, I looked for palms that were rare because they were endangered. I felt that if they had been seed grown and not wild collected, that I was trying to do my own little part to ensure their survival, albeit far away from their home.

But your question raises an issue I hadn't considered. I'd hate to have a palm here in the greenhouse that I acquired because its parent was destroyed in order to collect the seeds.

[Jeff Searle]

Ahh, a century old problem. I'm not sure if there are any programs currently set up in regards to replanting various species of palms, where maybe at one time plentiful numbers existed. Maybe John Dransfield could comment, or I'll try to ask my good friend Peter Balasky if he knows of any such programs. He's been there on several ocassions. There would be big hurdles to jump to get some type of action set in place I think. A small nursery would have to be established with locals running it. Money would have to be contributed to buy grow bags, fertilizer, chemicals to spray,and so on. Local labor would then have to be paid to go out and plant these palms. Alot of things would have to be set in place before the first palm would ever be planted. Just my thoughts as a nurserman.......

Jeff

[Phil]

Group,

Experts like J.D. can comment, but from what I've heard, habitat destruction is the number one enemy.  In Madagascar, such destruction is often for the purpose of agriculture or production of charcoal.  Construction of roads/structures and housing/city development can also be a problem.  The unanimous motive I've heard is that habitat loss is mainly for the purpose of survival.  People do it to survive.  In some areas of the world it might be for greed, as in logging out forests.   Now where does the collection of seeds come into this?  There are instances where avid collectors might raid a tiny isolated population of a threatened species and thus diminish that species' chance for survival.  But, unless the population is dug up wholesale, there's another chance in the future for survival with a new crop of seeds.  When habitat destruction takes place, it's most likely forever.  It doesn't take advanced science to see that preserving habitat is the only logical way to preserve the species in the wild.  If there's no place for the species to grow, how can it survive?  Seed collectors will always be looked upon with an eye of suspicion; "they are the problem".  And, such collectors will be made the scapegoat.  But, effectively  false-targeting such collectors will only satisfy the masses demanding retribution for the real problem: loss of habitat.  I sincerely doubt that distant botanical gardens and private collections will ever effectively be a source for repopulating lost forests, but at least it gives Earth the chance at reintroducing lost species.  This is the theory of many modern zoos.  More ideal would be repopulation programs right in the country or area of concern.  Or, even better, find an alternative way for people to survive so they don't have to deforest their own countries.  Charity programs sponsoring such habitat protection should be actively supported, as they are approaching the problem from it's roots.

Phil Bergman

[metalfan]

Then let me ask you this, as you make a lot of sense...

What should people like me, who are only hobbyists and not connected to any bigwigs like you or Mr. Dransfield or virtually anyone of note in the "palm world", plan to do with our more unusual plants when we are no longer here to maintain them?

Is there a program in existance to match palms that need to be willed or donated to organizations that would like to receive them?

[Phil]

Metal,

Not that I know of.  Most would consider donating plants to an appropriate botanical garden.  Or, possibly to another younger grower.  If you set seeds, ideally some of these could return to habitat areas. But, I know of no program doing this.

Phil

[MattyB]

Just FYI, I'm very young (I'm 4) and will take any such donations as mentioned above.....ga ga goo goo ya know what I'm sayin'? ???

[XYZ]

Greetings all:

Some essential truths that have already been mentioned but than can NEVER be over-emphasized (and some gratuitous editorializing!):

- Loss/degradation of habitat is the number one threat to most endangered organisms.

- Ex-situ collections may be of value to researchers if accessions and subsequent artificially-reproduced generations are properly documented and maintained. Even well-known public collections do not guarantee the preservation of individual taxa in their collections into perpetuity...as curators and directors change, so do their interests and priorities. Montgomery BC in Miami may be one notable exception to this general rule.

- Small private collections rarely contain truly "rare" (critically low numbers world-wide, strict sense) plants or animals...usually just CITES-appendixed material or "rare"/costly outside of range state/s. Huge distinction between the two.

- Hobbyists specializing in exotica should make every effort to make provisions that their collections are not destroyed at their passing, but should not expect local zoos, wildlife parks or botanical gardens to show much interest (unless you have bamboo lemurs and/or specimen-sized Encephalartos woodii!). I have personally coordinated the breeding and reintroduction of several endangered bird species and I can assure you that the unit cost is astronomically high, as is the bar to ascertain species' health & genetic purity.

- Seed collectors/vendors are a convenient whipping boy for some...and may sometimes be responsible for depressing specific plant populations. This whole thing about chopping down trees to obtain seed is way exaggerated, I'm sure. From a different perspective, I will confess that when I ranched cattle here in the 70s, we chain-sawed hundreds of mature Attalea cohune on our property as part of the conversion of forest to pasture. Every oil palm and rubber plantation, cattle ranch, banana plantation and pitch pine farm, marble quarry etc. in our area did exactly the same thing to make room for their commercial activities. So folks; look not to the commercial trade, but to your own consumption patterns for the principal underlying reasons behind the population declines of many tropical organisms.

- If you are REALLY concerned, do your homework and find an organization that has a solid reputation and mirrors your areas of interest. Then, suck it up and start writing checks on a regular basis! There are many U.S. and EU-based groups that channel financial support to local groups working to halt the advance of the agricultural frontier in the tropics. These include WWF Nature/WWF-U.S., The Nature Conservancy, Conservation International, Wildlife Conservation Society, etc. De paso...most of these orgs are very active in conservation of threatened ecosystems in Madagascar.

And finally a question I have posed on several occasions while guiding hapless zoo curators thorugh wilderness in Latin America: "If we don't conserve habitat now, then when it's gone, where in Hell's name are we supposed to reintroduce the stuff that you guys are breeding twenty years from now?"

Happy Trails,

SJ

[gsn]

(stone jaguar @ Sep. 20 2007,12:38)

QUOTE

Greetings all:

Some essential truths that have already been mentioned but than can NEVER be over-emphasized (and some gratuitous editorializing!):

- Loss/degradation of habitat is the number one threat to most endangered organisms.

- Ex-situ collections may be of value to researchers if accessions and subsequent artificially-reproduced generations are properly documented and maintained. Even well-known public collections do not guarantee the preservation of individual taxa in their collections into perpetuity...as curators and directors change, so do their interests and priorities. Montgomery BC in Miami may be one notable exception to this general rule.

- Small private collections rarely contain truly "rare" (critically low numbers world-wide, strict sense) plants or animals...usually just CITES-appendixed material or "rare"/costly outside of range state/s. Huge distinction between the two.

- Hobbyists specializing in exotica should make every effort to make provisions that their collections are not destroyed at their passing, but should not expect local zoos, wildlife parks or botanical gardens to show much interest (unless you have bamboo lemurs and/or specimen-sized Encephalartos woodii!). I have personally coordinated the breeding and reintroduction of several endangered bird species and I can assure you that the unit cost is astronomically high, as is the bar to ascertain species' health & genetic purity.

- Seed collectors/vendors are a convenient whipping boy for some...and may sometimes be responsible for depressing specific plant populations. This whole thing about chopping down trees to obtain seed is way exaggerated, I'm sure. From a different perspective, I will confess that when I ranched cattle here in the 70s, we chain-sawed hundreds of mature Attalea cohune on our property as part of the conversion of forest to pasture. Every oil palm and rubber plantation, cattle ranch, banana plantation and pitch pine farm, marble quarry etc. in our area did exactly the same thing to make room for their commercial activities. So folks; look not to the commercial trade, but to your own consumption patterns for the principal underlying reasons behind the population declines of many tropical organisms.

- If you are REALLY concerned, do your homework and find an organization that has a solid reputation and mirrors your areas of interest. Then, suck it up and start writing checks on a regular basis! There are many U.S. and EU-based groups that channel financial support to local groups working to halt the advance of the agricultural frontier in the tropics. These include WWF Nature/WWF-U.S., The Nature Conservancy, Conservation International, Wildlife Conservation Society, etc. De paso...most of these orgs are very active in conservation of threatened ecosystems in Madagascar.

And finally a question I have posed on several occasions while guiding hapless zoo curators thorugh wilderness in Latin America: "If we don't conserve habitat now, then when it's gone, where in Hell's name are we supposed to reintroduce the stuff that you guys are breeding twenty years from now?"

Happy Trails,

SJ

Everyone on this board should read, and reread this post!

It is an excellent example of the type of post the NEW IPS forum is looking for.

It is concise,well thought out, intelligent ,academic, esoteric, and relevant to palms, and the palm world!  ::  

SJ,

Sorry for the brief diatribe, using your post as an example!

Your post was excellent, and I agree with most of what you say!

[Scott]

I really appreciate the input. There really is so much to consider here. It also brought up other issues I hadn't thought of such as the health and genetic purity of species to be reintroduced. I'm sure that alone would be costly in the  whole process.

The photos in the journal of the of the habitat of the new species - Beccariophoenix alfredii - show the population in a valley either at or near Manalazina. It's commented in the article that this might be the only place in Madagascar where such a palm population exists.

[palmmermaid]

SJ,

I agree with most of your points.  Your last paragraph is especially thought-provoking.  I agree on that 100%.  Keeping the population alive in zoos is not the only or total answer.  Preservation of habitat is the answer.

I understand the issues that deal with a people's need to survive.  But I also believe we (that is "civilized" and "must colonize every place on this planet" we) have contributed to much of the destruction.  While Madagascar could support the native population for millenia, it can't support that population that has grown due to Western influences - medicine, lower birth mortality rates, longer lives.  We have disturbed that balance.  What we must do is teach the people that ecotourism is a much longer lasting way to make a living than cutting dowm capturing, and selling everything.  When the local people see us (refer to the "we" above) with our wealth and abundance they want that and they will do whatever is necessary to get that.  Of course, we treat them badly and as if they are ignorant.

Haiti is completely deforested due to the need for charcoal by the inhabitants.  The Domincan Republic will be there one day.  Costa Rica doesn't look anything lie it did when I lived there 36 years ago.  I saw the beginning of the invasion and thought then it was not good.  I am glad the government there has done what they have to stem the tide of the destruction.

I think seed collectors are low on the list of who is responsible for some species being critically endangered.

[Dave-Vero]

Here's an interesting paper on forest conservation in Madagascar

pubmedcentral.nih.gov

[Gtlevine]

After being there for a full month travelling from the north to the extreem south and everywhere in between, point no further than habitat destruction as the cause. From what I saw, There won't be any forest or palms left in ten years, nothing but Aloe's and Pachypodiums. I drove some stretches that have been burned so many times that not even insects were alive, not one bug splattered on my windshield for two hundred miles, just incredible. The best thing we can do is collect seed and grow the plants outside of Madagascar. I know some don't agree with me, but if it were not because of seed collectors, many of the now extinct species would not be in cultivation as they are now.

Gary

[Tyrone]

Seed collectors do tend to be blamed a lot when this topic comes up, and I in no way endorse irresponsible seed collecting activities, but I have a couple of species specific comments regarding future availability of rare palm propagation material.

Dypsis decaryi is a CITES listed species that once was quite rare to non existent outside of habitat around the world. Now it is grown well in many seasonally dry warm parts of the world. At least in Oz, these have been seeding profusely for years, and I can go walk down the road and pick up seeds that have been dropped by verge growing specimens and grow more. OK, Dypsis decaryi isn't rare anymore in cultivation, but it's still rare and endangered in habitat. There is no need to continue seed collecting activities in Madagascar with this species.

Dypsis sp Fine Leaf aka fakey ambositrae is now grown quite commonly in collectors gardens in the warmer parts of the globe. This species can not even be found in Madagascar anymore, for reasons we may never know for sure, but most likely habitat destruction. This species, whatever it is, has been seeding in cultivation, and most likely will continue in existence. Maybe a few seeds were collected at first, and now it's in cultivation.

Dypsis leptocheilos, the redneck or teddy bear whatever you prefer, was described from a plant growing in Tahiti that was collected in Madagascar. It can no longer be found in Madagascar, probably again due to habitat destruction. This plant is very accessible in the tropics and sub-tropics, but is presumed extinct in habitat. Again, maybe just a few seeds at first were removed from habitat which resulted in a plant growing in Tahiti. Thankfully we can still grow this beautiful palm.

Dypsis decipiens and even Dypsis ambositrae may eventually find there way into common cultivation and seed often. Hopefully they will.

Habitat destruction in Madagascar or anywhere else is a failure of government. Not just the local Madagascar government, but the international governmental arrangements in general. This world is governed by greed, in all levels of society. Unless that is fixed, extinctions will just go on and on like before, with very few caring less.

My two cents

regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

(Gtlevine @ Sep. 20 2007,17:30)

QUOTE

After being there for a full month travelling from the north to the extreem south and everywhere in between, point no further than habitat destruction as the cause. From what I saw, There won't be any forest or palms left in ten years, nothing but Aloe's and Pachypodiums. I drove some stretches that have been burned so many times that not even insects were alive, not one bug splattered on my windshield for two hundred miles, just incredible. The best thing we can do is collect seed and grow the plants outside of Madagascar. I know some don't agree with me, but if it were not because of seed collectors, many of the now extinct species would not be in cultivation as they are now.

Gary

Gary, that is SO depressing. Let's hope that something changes.

God, Look what we've done to your Earth..........

[metalfan]

You all seem to be such a serious group of environmental conservationists, I hope you will not object to my inviting you to view this video. This is the future of our planet unless we change. Its very graphic, and I have to admit, it applies more to animals than it does to plants, but the message is the same. I'd implore you to watch it all the way through, its very powerful. The scenes shown here apply also to the destruction of the rainforests and habitat destruction worldwide. It should make you angry enough to do what was suggested above: choose carefully, and donate funds to organizations who are truly working to stop this unnecessary slaughter and destruction.

And to those who will say that this is a cheap way for me to try to "slip in" material that would have belonged on the Palapa, you couldn't be more in error.

[palmmermaid]

Gina,

Very poweful video.  I have witnessed some of this type of thing.  I've seen a long line filled with carcasses of sharks with just their fins missing - off the coast of West Palm Beach in 40 feet of water.

I think it is very applicable to this board.  We must preserve our planet.  We did this.  Only we can undo this or at least halt it.

[XYZ]

Interesting stuff. Gary's exec sum of how he experienced the damage first-hand and its' underlying cause echoes the dogma of my first statement. Tyrone's final paragraph sums it up even better...all this dismal evidence shows a total failure of leadership by politicos & governments world-wide.

While CITES-listing does have a place in deterring commerce of some endangered organisms, it has become an acceptable band-aid measure for many governments unwilling to accept that they are reluctant to commit to whole ecosystem preservation ("Look at what we're doing for conservation!! We've listed a while new block of species on CITES!! Shame on those First World traffickers!!). It now becomes a dumping ground for ALL endangered species, not just those specifically threatened by commerce. Frankly, I think it should be a source of shame and censure that a country has a long list of native CITES-appendixed species.

Ironically, and on the flip side of this argument, I think that it is with palms and cycads that one can see the rapid & positive impact that free distribution of seed has on the global populations. Mascarene palms are, of course, pretty much the poster children of all this "found it-lost it-now it's gone forever" madness...too many taxa to list, but it is obvious that spp. such as Lemurophoenix halleuxii and several Dypsis spp. will doubtfully survive this decade (year?) as free-living populations.

Beyond the palms themselves, a key challenge to wildlands and endangered species managers is, where relevant, maintaining viable populations of native pollinators in the face of habitat degradation. In many cases throughout the tropics, we now have wild plants that exist as mature, non-reprducing individuals due to the extinction of their pollinators.

More than two decades ago, famed tropical dry forest ecologist Daniel Janzen warned that complex interspecies' relationships would disappear long before the individual species themselves and that we should be monitoring these relationships as our "coal mine canaries" rather than the individual species. IMO, we have long since passed that rubicon and are, generally speaking, all sitting on our thumbs pretending to be popsicles when it comes to conservation of biological diversity as a whole. Or, as a good friend who is a brilliant tropical ecologist once pointed out with admirable if depressing succinctness, "Oops! Too late!!".

One point that I think should be emphasized to the palm community at large is that IF you are growing these "extinct-in-the-wild" ornamental palms from Madagascar and its satellite islands, then you should make every effort to keep them genetically pure. I think that it should be a rule of thumb that you not distribute seed identified as a particular species if you are not absolutely certain that mommy hasn't been cavorting the milkman across the way.

Onwards & Upwards,

SJ

[bruno]

A little wink at you palmfanatics wanting to preserve our beautiful island, or at least what is left of the forest: about 5% I heard.

Yesterday, in the newspaper read on the website of moov.mg there was a small article (in french) saying that USaid had given 80 mn dollars to madagascar: 20 for fighting malaria and 60 for conservation!... YES.

I hope it does not end up in the pockets of the people in charge, who usually buy expensive  four wheel drives to roam arond the island and talk for hours and do nothing.

Thank usaid. bruno

[Moose]

And the natural habitats continue to shrink

[Mandrew968]

If I put Desitin on the Moose, do the bumps go away?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Great bump, this is a serious issue with over 80% of Madagascar's palms threatened with extinction.

[Funkthulhu]

It's chilly in here. . . I'm getting moosebumps.