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Freezing rain Texas


MarcusH

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5 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

 

 

 

There weren't 30+ footer CIDP's and Washingtonia in London during the 1970's. Just saying...

I’m not going to get into this debate as it will end just like debating religion at the dinner table. That said look deeper, the 70’s are always used a reference point for a reason.  

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8 hours ago, RJ said:

I’m not going to get into this debate as it will end just like debating religion at the dinner table. That said look deeper, the 70’s are always used a reference point for a reason.  

I only mentioned the 70's since it is 50 or so years ago now. I could mention the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's etc. 1962/63 was the coldest winter on record here, followed by the 1946/47 winter. The 1982/83 and 1986/87 winters were also pretty bad, as was the infamous 2010/11 winter, which saw the coldest December on record. 

There has been a massive decline in the amount of winter snow over here. Consequently there has been a fairly large increase in the amount of winter rain, which also coincides with a decrease in summer rainfall, particularly around July. So temperatures aside, there is also a notable shift in rainfall patterns too. Again, I also point to a rare, strong and triple dip La Nina period that has caused some bad winter conditions over the past 2-3 years.

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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7 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I only mentioned the 70's since it is 50 or so years ago now. I could mention the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's etc. 1962/63 was the coldest winter on record here, followed by the 1946/47 winter. The 1982/83 and 1986/87 winters were also pretty bad, as was the infamous 2010/11 winter, which saw the coldest December on record. 

There has been a massive decline in the amount of winter snow over here. Consequently there has been a fairly large increase in the amount of winter rain, which also coincides with a decrease in summer rainfall, particularly around July. So temperatures aside, there is also a notable shift in rainfall patterns too. Again, I also point to a rare, strong and triple dip La Nina period that has caused some bad winter conditions over the past 2-3 years.

Then you’ve got your answer 😏

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Warming up here today and the ice starting to gradually melt... nearly 30F for the first time since Monday.  Supposed to hit 34F this afternoon, back to 30 overnight, then we climb out of this tomorrow..  I've been documenting this all along the way so it will be interesting to see everything growing out of the brown fronds this summer.  Again.. plant those Sabals everyone.

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Subscribe to my YouTube here  to follow along my Sabal obsession....  Quite possibly one of the biggest Sabal plantings in the US.

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This was one of the weakest freezes ever. Low to mid 30s with mostly rain with a very light glaze of freezing rain overnight. Very tepid. No effect on hardy palms. 

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8 hours ago, RJ said:

 

Definitely not a severe freeze down here in SATX but I'm still curious how palms react to the weather . It was more rain than freeze . Would my Queen palm made it without protection?  I don't know.  I have no experience with light freeze and Queen palms. 

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5 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Definitely not a severe freeze down here in SATX but I'm still curious how palms react to the weather . It was more rain than freeze . Would my Queen palm made it without protection?  I don't know.  I have no experience with light freeze and Queen palms. 

28 here in December one night. No damage on my Queen palm, they are pretty hardy.

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5 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Definitely not a severe freeze down here in SATX but I'm still curious how palms react to the weather . It was more rain than freeze . Would my Queen palm made it without protection?  I don't know.  I have no experience with light freeze and Queen palms. 

This freeze/freezing rain reminds me of the 2011 freeze in Deep South Texas. Royals, foxtails, and many of the few coconuts survived. The queens laughed at the cold. 

The massive 2004 snowstorm did not really do anything either despite the accumulation in south and coastal Texas (Brownsville saw its first snowfall since the 1800s). There's even a picture of two coconuts covered in snow, one of which survived until 2021. 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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Looks like an overall low of 31 in SATX with light freezing precip, but mostly rain, so unless it gets colder than that tonight, a zone 10 freeze 1 degree colder than freezing.

No damage to queen palms (not that there are that many after Feb 21).

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I'm glad to hear that seems to be Queens are hardier than I think. I was just curious about freezing rain in particular but you guys answered my question thank you.  Definitely going to plant one more Queen in the front yard. 

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5 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I'm glad to hear that seems to be Queens are hardier than I think. I was just curious about freezing rain in particular but you guys answered my question thank you.  Definitely going to plant one more Queen in the front yard. 

Should be fine.  Maybe some light spotting, not sure, but nothing major.  Queen palms are definitely hardy to low 20s easy.  I've seen them come back after complete defoliation from mid and upper teens F.  Of course those were large palms also.

Edited by NBTX11
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16 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I'm glad to hear that seems to be Queens are hardier than I think. I was just curious about freezing rain in particular but you guys answered my question thank you.  Definitely going to plant one more Queen in the front yard. 

These Houston queens survived 18F winter storm with ice in 2018. Here they are in Feb 2021 a day or two before the end of the world. They recover quickly when given the chance. 

queen1.jpg.af58f658b7f73d119dac2a704b83c045.jpgqueen4.jpg.feec9c36ef38fd15fb5e7aab95b1f98d.jpgqueen3.jpg.4adc8a193cc6287561b48ec2ee6ec26f.jpgqueen2.jpg.246b4cffa2b8fea8e8315ea60ba55316.jpg

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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3 minutes ago, Xenon said:

These Houston queens survived 18F winter storm with ice in 2018. Here they are in Feb 2021 a day or two before the end of the world. They recover quickly when given the chance. 

Yes, I saw several large established Queen palms survive in New Braunfels TX from around 16 degrees in 2011.  They lived until Feb 21.

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What a shame that Feb.2021 took all of them out The good think Queens are cheap and grow fast and with no thorns on the petiole also easier to protect the bud . I guess much more could have made it through that storm if they were protected.  I saw a few that survived in Houston on the internet but they were most likely protected.  How long does it take to see a full crown after the fronds were burned again?  

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34 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I'm wondering how cold it got in the DFW area. I see a lot more ice over there on the news. 

We hit 24.1 on 1/31 and hovered at 26F for almost 24 hours..  We have at least 1" of ice all over the place, our yards are totally frozen over it's wild, and it is raining right now.  We start thawing out tomorrow though.

Subscribe to my YouTube here  to follow along my Sabal obsession....  Quite possibly one of the biggest Sabal plantings in the US.

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sabalking.texas

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8 minutes ago, Sabal King said:

We hit 24.1 on 1/31 and hovered at 26F for almost 24 hours..  We have at least 1" of ice all over the place, our yards are totally frozen over it's wild, and it is raining right now.  We start thawing out tomorrow though.

Be careful guys. On TV I see lots of trees already collapsing from heavy ice on it even here in San Antonio . Your Sabals should be fine . What kind of sabal do you have? 

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2 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

What a shame that Feb.2021 took all of them out The good think Queens are cheap and grow fast and with no thorns on the petiole also easier to protect the bud . I guess much more could have made it through that storm if they were protected.  I saw a few that survived in Houston on the internet but they were most likely protected.  How long does it take to see a full crown after the fronds were burned again?  

There are a few (very very few) living (at least as of Nov 2022) unprotected queens scattered here and there, with the highest concentration in Clear Lake near NASA. But it's like 1 in a thousand (Houston Area had 1000x more queens than San Antonio pre freeze). 

Here's a big one that made sitting in I-10 traffiic more bearable, looks decent again in about a year and full by two (you can change the time stamps).

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7762753,-95.3909719,3a,15y,200.25h,92.5t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1szNmvwqen0fWq7UhvP8rNXA!2e0!5s20200201T000000!7i16384!8i8192

Another beautiful pair (big even in 2007)

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.6984965,-95.209358,3a,66.4y,296.7h,93.19t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4BkWBokDtfjxusxFwg0Jzg!2e0!5s20191001T000000!7i16384!8i8192

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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4 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Be careful guys. On TV I see lots of trees already collapsing from heavy ice on it even here in San Antonio . Your Sabals should be fine . What kind of sabal do you have? 

I have an extensive list.....

Sabal Birmingham, Louisiana, Mexicana, Palmetto, Brazoriensis (Ordinary & Blue form). Minors (dozen or so varieties), Blackburniana, Causiarum, Urensas, Guatemalensis, Bermudana, Maritima, Palmetto (Baldhead Island), Palmetto (Lisa) and I am sure that there are others I'm missing....

The only thing I covered was my BxJ, and a Butia that spearpulled from 10.6F in December.  I'm not worried about a single one of these besides looking marginally brown\ugly for a few months they will be just fine.  I need more sabals!

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Subscribe to my YouTube here  to follow along my Sabal obsession....  Quite possibly one of the biggest Sabal plantings in the US.

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sabalking.texas

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8 minutes ago, Xenon said:

There are a few (very very few) living (at least as of Nov 2022) unprotected queens scattered here and there, with the highest concentration in Clear Lake near NASA. But it's like 1 in a thousand (Houston Area had 1000x more queens than San Antonio pre freeze). 

Here's a big one that made sitting in I-10 traffiic more bearable, looks decent again in about a year and full by two (you can change the time stamps).

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7762753,-95.3909719,3a,15y,200.25h,92.5t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1szNmvwqen0fWq7UhvP8rNXA!2e0!5s20200201T000000!7i16384!8i8192

Another beautiful pair (big even in 2007)

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.6984965,-95.209358,3a,66.4y,296.7h,93.19t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4BkWBokDtfjxusxFwg0Jzg!2e0!5s20191001T000000!7i16384!8i8192

That's enough proof for me to stick with Queens as well . Thank you for the pictures they look great on it. Amazing how they can handle such a cold and long temperatures.  I mean this storm 21 was very unique and destructive I don't expect anything like that anytime soon. Crossing fingers of course.  

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There's a ton of ice where I am just north of San Antonio. I'll try to post a few pictures later. I can hear trees breaking. 

sticker.gif?zipcode=78015&template=stick

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30 minutes ago, Sabal King said:

I have an extensive list.....

Sabal Birmingham, Louisiana, Mexicana, Palmetto, Brazoriensis (Ordinary & Blue form). Minors (dozen or so varieties), Blackburniana, Causiarum, Urensas, Guatemalensis, Bermudana, Maritima, Palmetto (Baldhead Island), Palmetto (Lisa) and I am sure that there are others I'm missing....

The only thing I covered was my BxJ, and a Butia that spearpulled from 10.6F in December.  I'm not worried about a single one of these besides looking marginally brown\ugly for a few months they will be just fine.  I need more sabals!

Quite a jungle you have in your yard I'm sure you get to enjoy all of them once we're in spring again. 

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1 minute ago, fr8train said:

There's a ton of ice where I am just north of San Antonio. I'll try to post a few pictures later. I can hear trees breaking. 

I'm here close to Windcrest I guess we're more on the safe side . 

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49 minutes ago, Sabal King said:

We hit 24.1 on 1/31 and hovered at 26F for almost 24 hours..  We have at least 1" of ice all over the place, our yards are totally frozen over it's wild, and it is raining right now.  We start thawing out tomorrow though.

25.0 ultimate low but 72 hours + below freezing and counting. Lowest soil temp recorded was 33 so we didn’t have that hard ground freeze like December. Covered everything small to protect crowns from ice, left all Sabal varieties unprotected.

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51 minutes ago, FMG said:

25.0 ultimate low but 72 hours + below freezing and counting. Lowest soil temp recorded was 33 so we didn’t have that hard ground freeze like December. Covered everything small to protect crowns from ice, left all Sabal varieties unprotected.

You definitely got hit harder at least your soil temperature is above freezing that helps a lot.  

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1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

I'm here close to Windcrest I guess we're more on the safe side . 

I'm in Fair Oaks Ranch, and this is how it looks here:

ice6.jpg

ice7.jpg

ice8.jpg

ice9.jpg

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sticker.gif?zipcode=78015&template=stick

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I used to live in the apartments across from the first photo, those died, and they demolished everything once partboy closed.

Lucas

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On 1/31/2023 at 2:30 PM, Xenon said:

Record lows are fairly similar in Texas and N FL/GA at a similar latitude and distance from water. It's only when you get into peninsular FL that FL warms up significantly at comparable latitude (south of say Gainesville or St. Augustine). The Appalachians have some effect but it mostly depends on the trajectory of the cold. Feb 2021 funneled most of the cold into Texas. Jan 1985 brought single digits to Jacksonville and Tallahasee with only marginal impact to Texas. Houston and Jacksonville are very similar overall with various microclimates created by Galveston Bay and the St Johns (plus UHI). 

SPI is actually quite a bit further south than Tampa, nonetheless I don't think the differences are that great. SPI has only dropped below 30F on a total of 3 occassions (Feb 2011, Feb 2021, Dec 2022) in the last 33 years. Now places like Clearwater and St Petersburg are definitely more protected from cold due to more water moderation. 

Guess I'll lighten up this thread with a pic of the part of TX that isn't in the 30s today. Friend in Brownsville sent this, this is after the "2nd lowest" temperature in the last 33 years

 

received_873374643896065.thumb.jpeg.21c804890dd57b9ccf78d261af0f0d6a.jpeg

Just brought the family down to SPI on New Year's Eve, royals etc looked great all things considered, just like these photos, some burn on the fronds but will recover easily.  It was nice to see how well everything took it down there, and I was admittedly a little jealous.  

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Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

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3 hours ago, fr8train said:

 

 

Ice is the absolute worst . 👇 25 years ago I went through this 👇 Some places 3” of ice. High tension lines crumbled like slinkies. Folks without power for over a month in January in the north east. 🥶

 

when weather calls for freezing rain take it seriously, it’s extremely hard to predict much like climate change. 🥳

1450B3DB-3A76-489E-B814-7201EC9FE4AB.jpeg

A105B0B0-6927-4799-B4E7-87BF12553C2B.jpeg

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Over an inch of ice covering everything; the Sabal minors should survive the ice, as long as the trees don't fall on them.

 

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Man I am glad we haven't had an ice storm like that since 02'  

You guys stay safe and hopefully your power stays on🤞

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11 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Definitely not a severe freeze down here in SATX but I'm still curious how palms react to the weather . It was more rain than freeze . Would my Queen palm made it without protection?  I don't know.  I have no experience with light freeze and Queen palms. 

I second that queens are hardy in the low 20's. I hit 19f last winter & they took some leaf burn ( 50% maybe).

This is a picture a few weeks after 22f this winter, still green. Unfortunately we hit 20f last night. I won't be home until tomorrow night but I'm sure queens will still be green since we heated up to 56f today.  Seems like it was a brief dip.

 

20230106_104449.thumb.jpg.a0df31a8f0082edd08155806ab00359e.jpg

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Hesperia,Southern CA (High Desert area). Zone 8b

Elevation; about 3600 ft.

Lowest temp. I can expect each year 19/20*f lowest since I've been growing palms *13(2007) Hottest temp. Each year *106

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4 hours ago, N8ALLRIGHT said:

Man I am glad we haven't had an ice storm like that since 02'  

You guys stay safe and hopefully your power stays on🤞

There's been no power here since 9 pm, it's 3 am now. I'm hoping I'll be back on when I wake up. 

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sticker.gif?zipcode=78015&template=stick

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2 hours ago, Jubaea_James760 said:

I second that queens are hardy in the low 20's. I hit 19f last winter & they took some leaf burn ( 50% maybe).

This is a picture a few weeks after 22f this winter, still green. Unfortunately we hit 20f last night. I won't be home until tomorrow night but I'm sure queens will still be green since we heated up to 56f today.  Seems like it was a brief dip.

 

20230106_104449.thumb.jpg.a0df31a8f0082edd08155806ab00359e.jpg

Beautiful Queen palm. I asked that earlier I guess no one has seen it but how long does it take for a frond to grow back and how many fronds does a Queen grow a year. I've planted mine 3G in May and with just a thin bedsheet wrapped around and a bucket over it survived the winter storm in Dec 22 with lows of 16,21,24,28.  I think that's pretty amazing.  I have to mention I deep watered my palms prior to the freeze and added a thicker layer of mulch around the base.  I always give my palms enough water and fertilize 3 x in the growing season with a slow release fertilizer.  Queens are very nutrient hungry more than the washies I have and they don't like bad drainage system. I'm going to replant it in the front yard this spring and add some top soil 50/50 ratio to it. I might add some extra manganese to the Queen as well. Keep us up to date with your Queen. 

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15 hours ago, fr8train said:

There's been no power here since 9 pm, it's 3 am now. I'm hoping I'll be back on when I wake up. 

We just got power back :/

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sticker.gif?zipcode=78015&template=stick

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I got essentially no freezing rain in New Braunfels. When the major precipitation was falling, I was hovering around 34 degrees while 15 miles away in the hill country was below freezing. Night and day difference between here and northwest Bexar. 

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21 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Beautiful

Thanks! My biggest puts out 4-5 fronds a year now.  I'd expect a little more for you in TX once it gets settled in. The 3 year mark is when they really get moving. 

That is amazing! I get a ton of night lows under 32f every winter & several lows in the mid to upper 20's & they keep chugging along. They're really cold hardy!

I'm trying some organic fertilizers this year, 1 of them being high in potash. Might want to check it out for that extra potassium 👍

Screenshot_20230202-235905_Chrome.thumb.jpg.5fc38ee1ce901082e675cc80dc3363ff.jpg

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Hesperia,Southern CA (High Desert area). Zone 8b

Elevation; about 3600 ft.

Lowest temp. I can expect each year 19/20*f lowest since I've been growing palms *13(2007) Hottest temp. Each year *106

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Hesperia,Southern CA (High Desert area). Zone 8b

Elevation; about 3600 ft.

Lowest temp. I can expect each year 19/20*f lowest since I've been growing palms *13(2007) Hottest temp. Each year *106

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Heavy ice here yesterday. Especially north and west of Austin. This is all precipitation that froze after landing, no snow.

23BDF1DF-7F92-4753-9A87-5CB6FF6930FF.jpeg

58420312-B622-4B3C-9515-69830145EC71.jpeg

990C9D95-E81C-47DD-B688-EC1A37803167.jpeg

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