How to add magnesium sulfate to established queen palms?

[Christopher Dillman]

Got these queens in my yard. They've been 'meh' like this for several years. I do add palm plus periodically, and gets plenty of water. Still never fully green, no new fronds, just in this stasis.

I've read something about a 'magnesium deficiency' and to add Epsom salts, but no clue how. I've read just sprinkle around the trunk into soil - or mix with a big bucket of water, pinhole it for slow release into soil.

Any guidance appreciated! HNY - Christopher

Edited December 29, 2022 by Christopher Dillman

[Looking Glass]

I always found these recommendations useful as a guide, though they area geared towards Florida…..  

https://www.palmbeachpalmcycadsociety.com/documents/PalmNutritionalDeficiencyCorrectionAndAntagonisticNutritionalRelationships.pdf

[Jim in Los Altos]

Queens are heavy feeders. They need lots of nitrogen as well as all the other elements found in quality palm specific fertilizers. I wouldn’t rely on just magnesium. PalmGain is one of the excellent ones and is available on Amazon and Home Depot online. 
 

[Christopher Dillman]

  On 12/29/2022 at 7:54 PM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Queens are heavy feeders. They need lots of nitrogen as well as all the other elements found in quality palm specific fertilizers. I wouldn’t rely on just magnesium. PalmGain is one of the excellent ones and is available on Amazon and Home Depot online. 
 

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Interesting, I used to use Palm Gain. But was told by a local palm grower to shift to Palm Plus, which is a 13-5-8. I fear if I throw in Palm Gain might be overkill?

I guess I'm losing patience since the Queens have not 'greened up' in a few years.

Also wondering if I should stagger the feeding between the Epsom salts and something like Palm Gain.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Christopher Dillman

[Looking Glass]

Fertilize with a general palm fertilizer 4x per year,  hit it with 3 cups of langbeinite every couple months.   Water aggressively but to fit your specific climate out there.  The old leaves won’t green up, but the new leaves will start to come in healthy and strong.   In a year or two, should look good, as the ugly stuff retires itself and is replaced with new.  

Edited December 29, 2022 by Looking Glass

[Merlyn]

@Christopher Dillmanthe fronds sorta look like a combination of deficiencies, so it's hard to say from the photos.  Here's my notes on deficiencies, maybe you can tell what the dominant problem is.  It looks like the newest leaf is green at the base of the leaf and turns yellow towards the tip.  The older fronds are frizzled and dead at the ends.  That seems like it could be a combo of something like potassium, magnesium, but could easily have deficiencies in iron, manganese and boron too.  Since the new fronds seem to come out looking normal-ish, it's probably not boron.

• Nitrogen - Older fronds turn light green uniformly, new fronds remain dark green until deficiency is really severe
• Potassium - Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Caryota and Arenga get random splotched dead spots in leaves. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving inwards
• Magnesium -Yellow linear bands on oldest leaves first, transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Never causes leaf tip necrosis
• Iron - Many times caused by overly mucky soil and root rot. Starts with new spear leaves with yellow-green or even white, possibly with spots of green.
• Manganese - Lengthwise necrotic streaks in leaves with dead and curled leaf tips. Similar to bands showing Magnesium deficiency
• Boron - Bent or necrotic or distorted leaf tips, distorted or bent spear, bands of dead spots on new fans, spears that won't fully open
• Water - Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color
• Dolomitic Lime or Azomite - Magnesium Carbonate – reduces acidity/raises pH – slower release and adds Magnesium, helps avoid Potassium deficiencies in Cuban Copernicias. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis
• Garden Lime - Calcium Carbonate – fast release but works well. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis

Palm Plus seems reasonable, but is lacking Boron and has 50% less potassium.  For palms that need extra magnesium I bought a 20lb bag of Magnesium Sulfate from HD.  I give my pygmy dates a good 2 handfuls a couple of times per year.  FYI, the recommended PalmGain dose is 1.5lb of 8-2-12 per 100sqft of canopy.  For a 20' diameter queen, that's 314sqft or 4.7lb per palm.  That's Florida rates, which might be different than CA rates. 

[Patrick]

I use Palm Plus. Either is fine. 50 Lb bags of Palm Plus may be more cost effective, though this is a guess. I last bought a few years back. Look up Crop Production Services if there's one nearby. Otherwise, I've gotten a hold of the Simplot rep and he's directed me. Some places don't sell to the public.

[Jim in Los Altos]

  On 12/29/2022 at 9:57 PM, Christopher Dillman said:

Interesting, I used to use Palm Gain. But was told by a local palm grower to shift to Palm Plus, which is a 13-5-8. I fear if I throw in Palm Gain might be overkill?

I guess I'm losing patience since the Queens have not 'greened up' in a few years.

Also wondering if I should stagger the feeding between the Epsom salts and something like Palm Gain.

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I’ve got 130 different species of palms in my landscape and the big old queens have always been the hardest to keep green. What works for me is PalmGain at the recommended amounts and a good dose of high nitrogen slow release lawn fertilizer at the same time. They are truly hungry palms and the extra nitrogen has always made the difference. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Jim in Los Altos

[Christopher Dillman]

  On 12/30/2022 at 3:36 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

I’ve got 130 different species of palms in my landscape and the big old queens have always been the hardest to keep green. What works for me is PalmGain at the recommended amounts and a good dose of high nitrogen slow release lawn fertilizer at the same time. They are truly hungry palms and the extra nitrogen has always made the difference. 

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Just so happens I have a leftover bag of Palm Gain. I hesitated on revisiting PG because a grower told me to avoid any fertilizers high in phosphorus for palms. He steered me towards Palm Plus.

Any experiences/opinions with high-phosphorus issues in fertilizers? Always appreciate your insights, and HNY!

 

[Merlyn]

  On 1/3/2023 at 4:35 PM, Christopher Dillman said:

Just so happens I have a leftover bag of Palm Gain. I hesitated on revisiting PG because a grower told me to avoid any fertilizers high in phosphorus for palms. He steered me towards Palm Plus.

Any experiences/opinions with high-phosphorus issues in fertilizers? Always appreciate your insights, and HNY!

 

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Hmmm...well PalmGain is 8-2-12 and Palm Plus is 13-5-8.  Overall PG has less phosphorus per unit of the "other stuff."  PG is a ratio of 4-1-6 and Palm Plus is 2.6-1-1.6.  So if you want to avoid phosphorus (which is probably good advice) then I'd avoid Palm Plus! 

[Christopher Dillman]

  On 1/3/2023 at 5:27 PM, Merlyn said:

Hmmm...well PalmGain is 8-2-12 and Palm Plus is 13-5-8.  Overall PG has less phosphorus per unit of the "other stuff."  PG is a ratio of 4-1-6 and Palm Plus is 2.6-1-1.6.  So if you want to avoid phosphorus (which is probably good advice) then I'd avoid Palm Plus! 

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Oh jeez, I didn't put that together. I guess this particular grower was not familiar with PG. Thanks for pointing that out!

[SeanK]

Interesting that the ratios are different. I thought 3:2:3 was optimal, but who knows.? 

[Merlyn]

  On 1/3/2023 at 7:05 PM, SeanK said:

Interesting that the ratios are different. I thought 3:2:3 was optimal, but who knows.? 

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I'm sure it depends on your soil.  I think it was Broschat who put the 8-2-12 (or 8-0-12) as the optimum ratios for Floriduh soils.  But that probably depends on whether you are coastal seashell soils (high pH) or inland typically slightly acidic soils.  Some area's soils may be low in phosphorus, so having something like 8-4-8 might be totally fine.  A local soil analysis is probably the only way to know for sure.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP516

[Billy]

  On 12/29/2022 at 5:23 PM, Christopher Dillman said:

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Off topic...

I've admired those 4 washingtonias in the background since grade school. They can be seen from the sand (or in the water) at Ponto, from the top of Grandview street, and a handful of other places. Although I would never want one in the yard or even in the neighbors yard, those four remind me of my childhood and I still see them almost daily. From your yard it looks like the symbol of good cell phone service...

[Christopher Dillman]

  On 1/3/2023 at 11:51 PM, Billy said:

Off topic...

I've admired those 4 washingtonias in the background since grade school. They can be seen from the sand (or in the water) at Ponto, from the top of Grandview street, and a handful of other places. Although I would never want one in the yard or even in the neighbors yard, those four remind me of my childhood and I still see them almost daily. From your yard it looks like the symbol of good cell phone service...

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That is so great to know. Thank you for identifying and sharing! I am always plum curious about palms in my distant view..

Know the story of this one? About a mile or so south of those Washingtonias. I presume Canary Island Date Palm. Not sure who's yard this one belongs to, but they do keep it nice n trim.

The only other similar Canary and size I've seen is smack dab in the middle of Moonlight Beach, which stands out as a halo tree.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Christopher Dillman

[Billy]

I'm guessing that photo was also taken from your yard shooting southwest, so I imagine that palm is in someone's backyard on Gascony? I don't know the story behind that particular palm but it is indeed a Canary Island Date. Lots of CIDP's naturalized in low lying areas of North County and Southern California in general. They can be seen growing wild along Batiquitos Lagoon and as you mentioned Moonlight Beach. Fingers crossed the South American weevil beetle doesn't take out too many, although I've noticed quite a few affected palms in our town already. One of which happens to be growing wild amongst many others just east of Moonlight near Cottonwood Creek. Next time I take a drive down Saxony or Gascony I'll keep my eyes out for that particular palm.