Palms in shallow soil

[Palmfarmer]

Hey. I got an area in my garden that's only half a foot or so then its bricks from there. What would happen if I planted a palm there? Will it get stunted? Will it compansate and spread the roots horizontally untill it finds a deeper pocket of soil? 

[Brad52]

All of mine are growing on solid lava, <2" of 'soil', you have to do mounds or raised beds really.  Hopefully they'll get enough of a 'foothold' in cracks in the lava to hang tight in heavy winds but I avoid large palms near the house.  Neighbors have mature large palms that seem fine but those lots have been 'ripped' which means the lava was busted up a couple feet deep perhaps so more room for roots.  

Bricks sounds removeable?

 

 

[Jim in Los Altos]

This Archotophoenix is growing on 7 inches of soil. Underneath it is solid flagstone on cement. l covered part of the patio with soil and I planted the King palm as a seedling there 15 years ago. It’s trunk doesn’t move at all in gusty weather. I recently opened up one side so it can spread roots deeply now but it’s been doing well all these years  as-is, on top of the existing patio. It grew at a slant away from a large Brahea edulis but has curved to a vertical direction as it grows taller. 
 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Jim in Los Altos

[Palmfarmer]

1 hour ago, Brad52 said:

All of mine are growing on solid lava, <2" of 'soil', you have to do mounds or raised beds really.  Hopefully they'll get enough of a 'foothold' in cracks in the lava to hang tight in heavy winds but I avoid large palms near the house.  Neighbors have mature large palms that seem fine but those lots have been 'ripped' which means the lava was busted up a couple feet deep perhaps so more room for roots.  

Bricks sounds removeable?

 

 

I think there is cables running below them. I will dobblecheck with the owner.

Wind is never a problem here. Okay so size wise it should not be a problem just stability is the issue? 

 

[Palmfarmer]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

This Archotophoenix is growing on 7 inches of soil. Underneath it is solid flagstone on cement. l covered part of the patio with soil and I planted the King palm as a seedling there 15 years ago. It’s trunk doesn’t move at all in gusty weather. I recently opened up one side so it can spread roots deeply now but it’s been doing well all these years  as-is, on top of the existing patio. It grew at a slant away from a large Brahea edulis but has curved to a vertical direction as it grows taller. 
 

Thats crazy. Strong wind is pretty much unheard of here. The mountains around the city blocks all the heavy winds. 

Cool you happen to know how a fruit tree would do in that spot as well. Consider a Lemon tree there also. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jim in Los Altos]

34 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

Thats crazy. Strong wind is pretty much unheard of here. The mountains around the city blocks all the heavy winds. 

Cool you happen to know how a fruit tree would do in that spot as well. Consider a Lemon tree there also. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure how a woody plant/tree would do in this situation but planting a dwarf lemon is worth a try. I do have an Alphonse Karr bamboo growing very well in the vicinity of the King Palm in the same 7” of soil. 

[Billeb]

6 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

This Archotophoenix is growing on 7 inches of soil. Underneath it is solid flagstone on cement. l covered part of the patio with soil and I planted the King palm as a seedling there 15 years ago….

That’s pretty crazy how a tree that big has grown with such a little vertical root system. Cool. 
 

-dale 

[96720]

I don’t think a citrus tree would grow under those conditions!!!

[Palmfarmer]

2 hours ago, 96720 said:

I don’t think a citrus tree would grow under those conditions!!!

Was thinking perhaps a regular tree might do better spreading the roots more horizontally then go deep down once it finds deep soil.

I think I will do a Butia there dig out as far down has possible then do hugelculture and mound it up a foot or some then let the wood decompose untill next fall and then plant. I have allways had extremly good sucess with palms in with growing mediums high jn wood. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

2 hours ago, Billeb said:

That’s pretty crazy how a tree that big has grown with such a little vertical root system. Cool. 
 

-dale 

It’s horizontal root growth was restricted also to an area of approximately 9’ x 4’. Now that I opened an area up of several feet on the right side of the palm (last summer) it will be interesting to see how the palm responds. 

[Palmfarmer]

18 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

It’s horizontal root growth was restricted also to an area of approximately 9’ x 4’. Now that I opened an area up of several feet on the right side of the palm (last summer) it will be interesting to see how the palm responds. 

Oh i might add that only a few foot outside the area there is pretty much unlimited soil going down. 

[sonoranfans]

This link may help for high elevation gardeners and durango mexico is up there 6200 ft.  https://www.jackwallington.com/7-ways-high-altitude-gardening-impacts-plant-growth/

[Palmfarmer]

16 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

This link may help for high elevation gardeners and durango mexico is up there 6200 ft.  https://www.jackwallington.com/7-ways-high-altitude-gardening-impacts-plant-growth/

Thanks some good info there. The things I notice in practice is very strong sunlight in spring and early fall with such low humidity even some desert palms get some burn. My Chinensis defoliated allmost completely this spring, but obviously came back strong. 

Frost is pretty much non-existent even when the temperatures go below 0 celcius. Palms also get less damage because of the really dry climate and the really low dips sometimes only lasts like 30 minutes. The following days are allways around 20 celcius or more so that helps also.