Canary Island Date Palms

[Vector]

I moved into a house with two of these majestic palms in my backyard, right by the pool/deck. One is has about 14' of trunk, the other about 10' and while the smaller one gets sun, I think an nearby 30'+ oak tree is taking away some of it's sun.

Never having owned/cared for one of these, I have several questions. First when they fruit, the berries drop all over the white pool deck and stain it to some degree. The berries that drop into the pool are also temporarily staining the deck, but those stains seem to disappear within a day (I assume because of the chlorine).

Anyway, here are a few questions;

 

1) Can I cut the fruit stocks off of them (as least on the side where the berries drop on the deck) without doing any harm to the palm?

2) They have mulch built up on the bottom of about 1-2', and I am wondering if that is the best thing for them, as most palms I have had (Queen, Green Malayan, Robellini, etc.) have not had much if any mulch around their trunks.

3) What is the best fertilizer for these palms in Florida's northern climate?

I know they do not grow fast, but I want to speed up the process as much as possible.

4) This is the big question. A neighbor two homes away has a big Canary in their front yard, and it is dying. They think it is some type of beetle known to infest and kill these type of palms.   Assuming that is true, what if anything can I do to protect my palms from getting these parasites?

Along that line of thinking, I am wondering if I helped pay for their dying palm to be cut and immediately removed, will that lessen the chance of my two becoming the next one the insects move on to?                             

Any advice/suggestions will be appreciated, as I do not want to lose these wonderful specimens.

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, Vector said:

I moved into a house with two of these majestic palms in my backyard, right by the pool/deck. One is has about 14' of trunk, the other about 10' and while the smaller one gets sun, I think an nearby 30'+ oak tree is taking away some of it's sun.

Never having owned/cared for one of these, I have several questions. First when they fruit, the berries drop all over the white pool deck and stain it to some degree. The berries that drop into the pool are also temporarily staining the deck, but those stains seem to disappear within a day (I assume because of the chlorine).

Anyway, here are a few questions;

 

1) Can I cut the fruit stocks off of them (as least on the side where the berries drop on the deck) without doing any harm to the palm?  Absolutely yes.

2) They have mulch built up on the bottom of about 1-2', and I am wondering if that is the best thing for them, as most palms I have had (Queen, Green Malayan, Robellini, etc.) have not had much if any mulch around their trunks.  I would keep mulch away from the trunk so that it's not touching.  

3) What is the best fertilizer for these palms in Florida's northern climate?  Others can answer better than I but Florikan or Palmgain should be a good choice.

I know they do not grow fast, but I want to speed up the process as much as possible.  Once Phoenix canariensis get a foot or so of trunk they start to grow faster.  You might not notice the speed at that size.  I had a 15-gal plant in San Antonio that was one of my fastest palms.

4) This is the big question. A neighbor two homes away has a big Canary in their front yard, and it is dying. They think it is some type of beetle known to infest and kill these type of palms.   Assuming that is true, what if anything can I do to protect my palms from getting these parasites?  Photos of the neighbor's palm would certainly help and others can answer better than I but it might be dying from TPPD (Texas Phoenix Palm Decline) also known as LB (Lethal Bronzing) which seems to be a big problem here and in Florida.  Below I've included information from the University of Florida:

The first symptoms of LB are variable. However, if fruit is present, the first symptom is generally premature fruit drop. If fruit has not set but inflorescences are present, they will become necrotic. Note that if the palm is not old enough to produce fruit, if it is not putting out an inflorescence at the time of infection, or if the inflorescences are trimmed, then these will not be reliable indicators for infection status. Inflorescence necrosis/fruit drop progresses to discoloration of the oldest leaves (closest to the ground) that gradually advances to younger leaves. The final stage of the disease is the collapse of the spear leaf, indicating that the heart or bud of the palm (apical meristem) has died and the palm has completely declined with no chance of saving it. The length of time between infection and symptom development (latent period) appears to be about four to five months. From symptom development to collapse of spear leaf is about two to three months, but this is highly variable. In some cases, no leaf discoloration is observed, but the spear leaf will collapse and the palm will test positive. Symptom progression occurs at different rates in different palm species.

MANAGEMENT

Management of LB involves removal of infected palms and preventative injection of antibiotics. Current data suggests that once palms start showing symptoms, the label rate for the antibiotic oxytetracycline-hydrochloride is not sufficient for symptom reversal. Because of this, upon symptom development and/or a positive test result, a palm is considered lost and should be removed immediately to reduce the amount of time this source of phytoplasma exists in the environment. The longer it is left, the higher probability that further spread will occur. Sampling healthy-looking palms around symptomatic palms can help get ahead of the disease because healthy-looking palms can also test positive. Even though no symptoms are present, those palms still need to be removed because there will not be sufficient time for the antibiotic to take effect before symptoms develop. Also, by testing healthy-looking palms, you can identify which palms are not infected and start preventative injections with the antibiotic.

Along that line of thinking, I am wondering if I helped pay for their dying palm to be cut and immediately removed, will that lessen the chance of my two becoming the next one the insects move on to?                             

Any advice/suggestions will be appreciated, as I do not want to lose these wonderful specimens.

Expand the quotation to see my answers in boldface after each question.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Fusca

[GottmitAlex]

2 hours ago, Vector said:

I moved into a house with two of these majestic palms in my backyard, right by the pool/deck. One is has about 14' of trunk, the other about 10' and while the smaller one gets sun, I think an nearby 30'+ oak tree is taking away some of it's sun.

Never having owned/cared for one of these, I have several questions. First when they fruit, the berries drop all over the white pool deck and stain it to some degree. The berries that drop into the pool are also temporarily staining the deck, but those stains seem to disappear within a day (I assume because of the chlorine).

Anyway, here are a few questions;

 

1) Can I cut the fruit stocks off of them (as least on the side where the berries drop on the deck) without doing any harm to the palm?

2) They have mulch built up on the bottom of about 1-2', and I am wondering if that is the best thing for them, as most palms I have had (Queen, Green Malayan, Robellini, etc.) have not had much if any mulch around their trunks.

3) What is the best fertilizer for these palms in Florida's northern climate?

I know they do not grow fast, but I want to speed up the process as much as possible.

4) This is the big question. A neighbor two homes away has a big Canary in their front yard, and it is dying. They think it is some type of beetle known to infest and kill these type of palms.   Assuming that is true, what if anything can I do to protect my palms from getting these parasites?

Along that line of thinking, I am wondering if I helped pay for their dying palm to be cut and immediately removed, will that lessen the chance of my two becoming the next one the insects move on to?                             

Any advice/suggestions will be appreciated, as I do not want to lose these wonderful specimens.

Pics?

[Merlyn]

@Fusca's got all the answers!    Florida is known to have palm weevils, I don't know if they live in your area.  Here's a fact sheet on them: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/IN139

Treatment of your palms with a neonicotinoid like Imadicloprid or Dinotefuran is the recommended method to keep yours free of weevils.  Since you are cutting off the flowers it's no risk to local bee populations.  If you can, post a photo of your neighbor's palm.  It might be something else like LB, Ganoderma, or Thielaviopsis killing it.  If it's not weevils then there's no point in using a toxic chemical on your palms.  Here's a photo of the big burrow hole of a weevil.  Fortunately it's big enough to see...unfortunately the brown area is usually hidden behind the thorns, other old palm frond boots, and the furry hair stuff around the trunk.  If it is weevils on your neighbor's palm they need to either treat it or cut it down.  Leaving it just grows more weevils which spread to nearby palms...

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@Fusca's got all the answers!

Sometimes they're even the right answers!  😂

I wasn't sure how much of a problem palm weevils are in Florida - thanks for adding that additional info.

[Vector]

Thanks for the replies thus far.

I will try to post a picture, though that is not my strong suit. I spoke with the neighbor, and they were told it was palmetto weevils, and when the crown was blown off, she saw larva.

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Vector

[Jiffxx]

https://flic.kr/p/2nZgVDh

 

Hello.  Im near Phoenix.  My mature pineapple palm appears to be dying.   It was pruned in Nov.  Two  storms, Aug and Oct, caused fronds to drop.  Now they just drop dailey. New yellow growth breaks and drops.  I have fertilized and insecticided.  No sign of insects. 

Thielaviopsis or ganoderma?  No one seems to know what's wrong.  All other pineapples around are fine.

Photo at link. 

Thanks

[Merlyn]

@Jiffxx it's probably best to make your own topic for your question.  But looking at the photo, I honestly think it's already dead.  It's been severely overpruned to get that "pineapple" shape and cutting it that close to the bud can easily kill even a large palm.  Since the older fronds are still green and the younger spear is brown I'd guess it's a crown infection like phytophthora,   Here's a fact sheet on it: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP144

Usually Thielaviopsis and Ganoderma end up with the older fronds dying before the center ones...I think.  It's been a long day, so I might have that wrong.  If you can get up to the crown on a ladder, you can try sniffing the crown.  If it smells like a rotting McDonalds dumpster on a hot summer day, then it's got a crown infection.  You can try pouring some regular household 3% hydrogen peroxide in it.  If it bubbles up there's a crown infection.  My favorite treatment for crown infections is 4tsp of Daconil concentrate mixed into a 32oz bottle of hydrogen peroxide.  Squirt about 4oz or so in there every week or every other week and pray!

It looks like there could be one spear in there, so it might have a chance.  But unfortunately that's a lot of damage, and it may not survive.

[aztropic]

3 hours ago, Jiffxx said:

https://flic.kr/p/2nZgVDh

 

Hello.  Im near Phoenix.  My mature pineapple palm appears to be dying.   It was pruned in Nov.  Two  storms, Aug and Oct, caused fronds to drop.  Now they just drop dailey. New yellow growth breaks and drops.  I have fertilized and insecticided.  No sign of insects. 

Thielaviopsis or ganoderma?  No one seems to know what's wrong.  All other pineapples around are fine.

Photo at link. 

Thanks

It's a disease called fusarium. When landscapers trim an infected tree somewheres else, and then trimmed yours without sterilizing their equipment,the disease was spread to your tree. There will be NO RECOVERY !!! It only seems to be affecting pineapple and queen palms exclusively in our area.

 

[Merlyn]

@aztropicI'm glad you knew what it was...I completely forgot about your previous thread on this. 

[Jiffxx]

Thanks for the responses.

Maybe my landscaper cut too much or had a contaminated saw.  It took ten months for fronds to droop after he pruned.  After doing it, he pruned two of the same size in my backyard.  They are okay.

I just smelled the crown.  No stink.  I have sprayed Daconil to the crown (or bud) and the new yellow growth.  Photo I took today shows them buckling.  Other photo is from a couple weeks ago.  Uploaded instead of linked this post. 

"Fusarium rot" around Phoenix?  There are hundreds of pineapple palms in Sun City West, none that look like mine.

Thanks. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Jiffxx
Mispelled

[Vector]

Here is a picture of one of my two palms.

Thoughts/opinions on it's appearance?

[Merlyn]

@Vector two thumbs up from me!    That looks really good overall, especially for holding so many fronds in the crown.  I do see a few browned tips on the older leaflets, which might just be from age or hurricane wind damage.  Or it could be sometime in the last few years it had a lack of Magnesium or Potassium.  I'd make sure your fertilizer has a good balance of Magnesium and Manganese and the other micronutrients like Iron and Boron...and keep doing what you are doing! 

I *think* the recommended fertilizer for South FL limestone soil is Florikan 8-2-12, but I'm not sure about that.

[Merlyn]

@Jiffxx my understanding of "green leaves suddenly falling over" is that it's typically a sudden lack of hydrostatic pressure in the palm...or of course heavy wind damage.  50+ mph winds could break the structural tissue and then they fall over in a day or two.  The problem with diagnosing water issues is that underwatering and overwatering can look similar...and if there's root rot you could throw hundreds of gallons of water at a palm and it'll still look underwatered.  The same thing happens with Thielaviopsis because it attacks/clogs the water-carrying tissues.  Here's a good description of the various diseases:

https://journals.ashs.org/horttech/view/journals/horttech/19/4/article-p710.xml

Cutting it to the extreme shape like that is an open wound for Fusarium (and other diseases) to enter the palm.  It's one major reason why everyone recommends to not cut any fronds until they are brown and crispy and dead.  Palms evolved to "eat" the old fronds for nutrients to power new growth.  So if you prune too aggressively or lop off the old ones too soon you are effectively depriving it of nutrition and photosynthesis at the same time you are creating open wounds for infection. 

[Jiffxx]

Thanks Merlyn.

The first and second dropping of branches did occur during wind storms.  The photo with a yellow house behind was first, in August.  The other in October. 

 

[Merlyn]

@Jiffxx yikes!  I've seen less frond damage here in Floriduh in hurricanes!  What were the wind speeds?

To be honest, I don't see anything in either photo that screams disease or really even a deficiency.  There are a few browned tips on leaflets, but nothing too unusual.  If @aztropic's theory is correct, maybe Fusarium infected it prior to those storms, and was weakening the palm.  I guess that could have contributed to breaking fronds.  A lack of hydrostatic pressure in the fronds makes them easier to snap...I think.   Canaries can live for months or years with Fusarium attacking it. 

[aztropic]

Another one bites the dust...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Jiffxx]

I suppose it was infected before the storms.  They didnt hurt any others around.  I wasn't here for either storm.  Probably 30mph winds.  The August storm was a haboob (dust storm).

[Jiffxx]

Fusarium wilt:

"Symptoms and Biology:

 The palm has a much reduced canopy of leaves. Symptoms usually appear in older or lower leaves in the canopy first, then move toward the upper or newest leaves.  Leaves turn yellow then brown but remain hanging on the palm."

My tree's leaves went directly from green to grayish brown. 

"Initially symptoms might affect the leaflets or pinnae on only one side of the leaf. Pinnae on the other side remain green, although they eventually also will turn brown and die. "

My tree, both sides turned color at the same time.

A guy stopped at my house yesterday and said his pineapple palm tree recently died and was told it was from South American weevils.  He never saw any.  Nor have I, or any sign of.  I guess they're a problem in Southern California. Not so much around Phoenix, that I know of. 

[Vector]

On 11/15/2022 at 11:33 AM, Merlyn said:

@Vector two thumbs up from me!    That looks really good overall, especially for holding so many fronds in the crown.  I do see a few browned tips on the older leaflets, which might just be from age or hurricane wind damage.  Or it could be sometime in the last few years it had a lack of Magnesium or Potassium.  I'd make sure your fertilizer has a good balance of Magnesium and Manganese and the other micronutrients like Iron and Boron...and keep doing what you are doing! 

I *think* the recommended fertilizer for South FL limestone soil is Florikan 8-2-12, but I'm not sure about that.

I am hoping the brown you noticed on the low fronds is wind damage from the hurricane, as a lot of my landscaping is damaged and may not recover.

I will look into that fertilizer though I am no longer in Miami, and in NE Florida on the intercoastal.

[Merlyn]

On 11/28/2022 at 2:31 PM, Vector said:

I am hoping the brown you noticed on the low fronds is wind damage from the hurricane, as a lot of my landscaping is damaged and may not recover.

I will look into that fertilizer though I am no longer in Miami, and in NE Florida on the intercoastal.

Yeah, the slight browning on the tips of leaves on old fronds is normal.  Those lowest leaves are probably 3+ years old, it's almost impossible to NOT have a little browning.  It could have been a hot May drought 2 years ago, or a slight Magnesium deficiency at some point, or just a bit too cold one night, etc.  If you are still coastal FL then Florikan 8-2-12 is probably a good bet.  I think that's what people recommend for the higher pH coastal and South FL soils.  Either way the palm looks great!

[Vector]

On 11/7/2022 at 6:37 PM, Merlyn said:

@Fusca's got all the answers!    Florida is known to have palm weevils, I don't know if they live in your area.  Here's a fact sheet on them: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/IN139

Treatment of your palms with a neonicotinoid like Imadicloprid or Dinotefuran is the recommended method to keep yours free of weevils.  Since you are cutting off the flowers it's no risk to local bee populations.  If you can, post a photo of your neighbor's palm.  It might be something else like LB, Ganoderma, or Thielaviopsis killing it.  If it's not weevils then there's no point in using a toxic chemical on your palms.  Here's a photo of the big burrow hole of a weevil.  Fortunately it's big enough to see...unfortunately the brown area is usually hidden behind the thorns, other old palm frond boots, and the furry hair stuff around the trunk.  If it is weevils on your neighbor's palm they need to either treat it or cut it down.  Leaving it just grows more weevils which spread to nearby palms...

 

Good news, and some bad news. The good news is both of my Canary's are doing well, and I have a service that comes out to do root injections of proper fertilizer based on soil analysis to give them what they lack. They also inject insecticide for the roots to absorb, rather than ports in the trunk or spraying the crown.

 

The bad news is that one of my Queen palms (not the one right next to my Canary) started looking sick, and the company came out and determined it was Ganoderma. So I am going to have it removed to reduce the chances of it spreading to other palms. They claim it cannot be prevented, and is lethal once a palm is affected.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

[Merlyn]

17 minutes ago, Vector said:

Good news, and some bad news. The good news is both of my Canary's are doing well, and I have a service that comes out to do root injections of proper fertilizer based on soil analysis to give them what they lack. They also inject insecticide for the roots to absorb, rather than ports in the trunk or spraying the crown.

The bad news is that one of my Queen palms (not the one right next to my Canary) started looking sick, and the company came out and determined it was Ganoderma. So I am going to have it removed to reduce the chances of it spreading to other palms. They claim it cannot be prevented, and is lethal once a palm is affected.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

Ganoderma is an incurable disease, and it may stay in the soil for years (or longer).  It's possible to diagnose by seeing a conk on the side of the trunk.  Barring a lab test or conk it's not possible to know for 100% certain that a palm is infected with Ganoderma.  However, the visible symptoms are pretty consistent, so an experienced arborist should be able to look at it and be fairly certain.  If there's no conk you can definitely tell after it's been cut down.  See Figure 5 in the below link.  The lowest trunk cuts are discolored, mostly starting in the center of the trunk and moving outwards.  The upper sections become less discolored until they look "normal" in the upper part of the trunk. 

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP100

I'd make sure that you are around when they go to remove the palm.  That way you can see if the lower trunk is actually infected with Ganoderma.  If it is, I'd recommend extracting the root ball instead of grinding it.  Grinding a Ganoderma-infected stump will fling bits of fungus all over the place, and potentially contaminate the soil for years.  They could also grind it and remove all the debris.  If it is Ganoderma, it is not recommended to replant another palm in the same spot.  Though not totally proven, it's theorized that the soil contamination will eventually infect the next palm.  Is that risk 5%, 20%, or 83.569%?  No clue. 

If the lower trunk looks a clean off-white color (like the right side of Figure 6 in the link) then it's probably not Ganoderma.  If the upper trunk looks discolored then it's probably Thielaviopsis.  If that's the case then replanting in the same spot is probably fine.  Thielaviopsis is floating around in the air all the time, and generally gets infected into fresh cuts by air, or through contaminated pruning tools like saws or loppers.  So don't have them prune your other palms with the same chainsaw they use to cut down the dying one!!!

[Vector]

The removal will hopefully be this week. This is a cut & paste report they sent;

I was able to come out yesterday and survey the palm. After my observations, I noticed that the older fronds have significantly desiccated with the crown shifting slightly to the SW. I also discovered a fungal conk on the lower NE side of the trunk. I identified this fungal conk to be ganoderma. Unfortunately, this is a lethal fungus for palms that is found naturally in our soil that affects both healthy and stressed palms. This is a fungal pathogen that has likely been in the palm's vascular system for several years. There are no fungicides listed that prevent, control, or eradicate this pathogen. The best course of action is to remove the palm to prevent further spread. I would not recommend replanting a palm back in this area as the fungal spores are persistent in the soil and could affect any palm installed back in this location. Below is a link from IFAS that gives further information about this fungal pathogen: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP100 We can assist you with the removal of this palm if you would prefer. Just let us know and we can schedule accordingly.

Removal would include removing the palm trunk with a chain saw. We would also remove the root ball and bring in some clean soil to back fill the hole. After the removal we would want to sterilizer our saws.

[Merlyn]

@Vector if they found a positively-ID'd Ganoderma conk, then it's a fatal infection.  Everything else they said is correct.  Removing the root ball by extraction is the best choice, as it limits the amount of remaining Ganoderma-infected tissue in the ground...thus limiting the chances of it spreading to nearby palms.  Various things have been suggested for "sterilizing the soil" to kill off remaining fungus, but I haven't read anything that's been scientifically proven to actually work.  So the best bet is to replant a new palm in a different spot.  How far away, you may ask...no clue.  Palm roots can go out in all directions up to 100 feet or so, but the highest density of palm roots seems to be within 5-10 feet of the trunk.  That's just based on observations I've made when transplanting or cutting down palms in my yard.

[Merlyn]

@Vector I posted this in a recent thread about a dying King palm.  You can see some good pictures in this post and a couple below it:

• One PTer decided to test it by cutting down a palm that was killed by Ganoderma, hollowing out the trunk base, and planting another palm directly in the rotted trunk!  Unfortunately NOT A TA passed away a couple of years ago, so I think this is the only remaining photo of the experiment: