do you guys have an estimate on how old this phoenix canariensis is?

[DTS]

def over 70 feet. Old pic btw

[Merlyn]

@DTS1 I read that some Canariensis are around 100 years old at 15 meters = 50 feet.  So perhaps 150 years old at 70 feet?  It looks like the species was described in 1882 and first known as being distinct from Dactylifera in 1847.  There's a great history of Canariensis document here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290391055_The_horticultural_history_of_the_Canary_Island_Date_Palm_Phoenix_canariensis

So that would fit with a mid-to-late 1800s planting.  Apparently one of the oldest in collection was the Oslo one sprouted in 1815 and died in 2000.  If you know where that photo was taken it's probably in the logs of the botanical garden for planting date and age.

Edit: it looks like the photo might be from the Buffalo and Erie County Botanical Gardens.  According to that above document "For example, the Buffalo and Erie County (New York) Botanic Gardens’ South Park Conservatory planted P. canariensis in 1902, but removed the tree eighty-one years later when it threatened to grow through the glass roof."  So if that's the right spot then it grew under ideal conditions and much faster than my guesstimate.

[DTS]

  On 10/2/2022 at 2:59 PM, Merlyn said:

@DTS1 I read that some Canariensis are around 100 years old at 15 meters = 50 feet.  So perhaps 150 years old at 70 feet?  It looks like the species was described in 1882 and first known as being distinct from Dactylifera in 1847.  There's a great history of Canariensis document here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290391055_The_horticultural_history_of_the_Canary_Island_Date_Palm_Phoenix_canariensis

So that would fit with a mid-to-late 1800s planting.  Apparently one of the oldest in collection was the Oslo one sprouted in 1815 and died in 2000.  If you know where that photo was taken it's probably in the logs of the botanical garden for planting date and age.

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i took the pic in belle isle conservatory in january if that helps

[Jadd Correia]

 

[Merlyn]

  On 10/2/2022 at 3:03 PM, DTS1 said:

i took the pic in belle isle conservatory in january if that helps

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Yup, my second guess was also wrong!  Belle Isle was build in 1904, but it isn't immediately obvious when the Canariensis was planted...or how old it might have been when they planted it.  I found the plantsmap description for the collection, but it doesn't say anything about planting date:

https://www.plantsmap.com/organizations/24643/plants/30167

If you search around for "belle isle conservatory canary" you might find some mention of the age.  I'm on low bandwidth barely-4G right now after hurricane Ian went through, so searching takes forever right now.

[UK_Palms]

The biggest CIDP's on Tresco in Cornwall were planted very small in the 1890's, so they are probably about 130-140 years old now from seed. The tallest specimens are just shy of being 100 footers now and probably in the 90-95 foot range. So at 50N in a cool, maritime climate you are likely looking at about 100 foot of growth after approx 150 years from seed.

.

 

Here's the big London one for comparison, which was planted pretty small in the late 1980's. It is now about 40 foot tall, so it has gone from seed to about 40 feet in approx 35-40 years. That is the growth rate in London at 51N. It may be growing quicker than the Tresco CIDP's due to more summer heat and higher sunshine hours? CIDP's grown under glass with no frosts, snow and additional irrigation will probably grow quicker, as will ones growing closer to the equator.

 

[Phoenix_Canariensis]

too bad they will cut it down once it reaches the top 😕

[IrishPalm22]

Amazes me it can survive as far inland and east as London with the brunt of cold coming from the east/continent, but with urban heat islands, who knows? Cork’s Fota Island (not an urban location, not really truly littoral but in an estuary at the top of Cork Harbour extending several km inland) once had something comparable to Tresco that died in 2010 (?) after living over 130 years.

[Arecaceus]

I did some research. The dome was built in 1904 and it's 26 m/85 feet tall. The CIDPs don't seem to reach the top yet but almost so I guess the estimation of over 70 feet is correct. They keep a constant temperature of 70° Fahrenheit in there and I would argue that they didn't plant it as a seedling but at around 2-5 years old. As they are a main theme in that dome they are probably also one of the earliest plantings there. So that would mean an age of 115 to 120. From how tall they look I'd estimate an age of around 100 to 120 years.

[DTS]

Probably shouldn't revive this thread but the last time I went to the conservatory when it was closed for rennovations (over a year now) I could've sworn I didn't the the silhouette of that Phoenix anymore in the big dome, hopefully they didn't finally cut it down