Archontophoenix cunninghamiana guerilla planted

[Foxpalms]

I have guerilla planted an archontophoenix cunninghamiana in marazion it's in a very large planter with other exotic looking plants such as cordylines and cannas it's only about 100-150m from the sea definitely a zone 10a. Since it's with other tropical looking plants and it's not going to be a nuisance where it's planted despite it being in a busy area hopefully it will be left to grow since it's also next to the beach it should make the place feel more tropical, which is what I'm guessing is what the original plantings where meant for.  The climate has  1745 hours of sunshine annually and 37 inches of rain

[Foxpalms]

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Foxpalms

[UK_Palms]

I commend the dedication mate! One word of caution is that animals like rabbits, foxes, badgers, deer etc may actively try to eat, or dig up plants, especially new ones in its territory. Deer are the biggest threat when it comes to them being eaten, but badgers are very territorial and dig up and remove anything new in their area. It might be okay, but I would be tempted to put a wire mesh cage over it to protect them. Like a chicken wire barrier. When people guerrilla grow marijuana they always use cages / fences to stop them being dug up or eaten by animals. Down near the beach you may get away with it hopefully, but this is something that will need to be considered when we guerrilla plant the Nikau's especially. Unless the spots are not accessible to rabbits, deer, badgers, foxes etc.

[Foxpalms]

27 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I commend the dedication mate! One word of caution is that animals like rabbits, foxes, badgers, deer etc may actively try to eat, or dig up plants, especially new ones in its territory. Deer are the biggest threat when it comes to them being eaten, but badgers are very territorial and dig up and remove anything new in their area. It might be okay, but I would be tempted to put a wire mesh cage over it to protect them. Like a chicken wire barrier. When people guerrilla grow marijuana they always use cages / fences to stop them being dug up or eaten by animals. Down near the beach you may get away with it hopefully, but this is something that will need to be considered when we guerrilla plant the Nikau's especially. Unless the spots are not accessible to rabbits, deer, badgers, foxes etc.

Should be too busy for deer but other animals might be a concern. One positive with it being next to the beach is lots of people will be walking near there so I doubt many animals will be around that area since the human activity is fairly high and nearby so it  will disturb them/scare them off. Rabbits will probably be the biggest threat then but it's not an ideal location for rabbits either.

 

[Axel Amsterdam]

Nice! Did you also plant any in your London garden? I would like to know how many fronds these grow in the London summerclimate. 

Thanks,

Axel

[Foxpalms]

7 hours ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Nice! Did you also plant any in your London garden? I would like to know how many fronds these grow in the London summerclimate. 

Thanks,

Axel

4-5 fronds, I'd say the grow faster vertically than syagrus here.

[Axel Amsterdam]

did they already experience a winter in your garden? It would be great if you could post a picture as its quite unique to see a bangalow in London. Many thanks. 

[Foxpalms]

3 hours ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

did they already experience a winter in your garden? It would be great if you could post a picture as its quite unique to see a bangalow in London. Many thanks. 

Yes the spot it's in probably didn't even go below freezing though as it's under a tree. Hopefully this winter is just as mild. The leaf on the right has a bit of sun burn and heat damage caused on the the 40c day which in that spot got up to 44c because of the heat radiating off the wall.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Foxpalms

[UK_Palms]

It looks similar to mine, except I haven’t planted my one out. I can’t here as I am 8b most winters. I need to move to a 9b zone in the coming years, which is why a lot of my palms are containerised still. I’m definitely not moving to the London concrete jungle, so I will probably move down to the Bognor-Worthing area. Somewhere I can create a palm paradise to rival Southern California.

@Jamil Habib Hey mate, how are your big Queens doing after this summer? I think me and Axel would love to see a photo update of your garden. You have the best, furthest from the equator Queens in the world. I bet they look unbelievable after this summer just gone!?

[Foxpalms]

@UK_Palmsbognor/selsey area looks good for growing palms solid 9b only slightly colder than central London's lowest annual temperature. Selsey has over 2000 sunshine hours annually.  With a south facing garden with brick walls and some smart positioning you could probably get things such as queen's and kings to do pretty well. Even close to the sea palms in the UK would still probably do better in a semi urban area because even a small urban heat island can give you an extra 2c of warmth on a cold night and some extra summer warmth. Birds of paradise,  monstera deliciosa, bougainvillea and Norfolk Island pines would all be happy in that climate. Going from zone 8b to 9b is a definitely huge difference in terms of what you can grow, 8b is quite limiting whilst 9b you can grow so much more and even zone push some zone 10 plants. 

[Axel Amsterdam]

I had a similar sized archonto planted in my courtyard years ago. When it was planted in its first year it grew really fast, frond wise. That was a very rainy summer. A joy to watch.  

After winter it was defoliated and never found its former speed again. The winters here are too cold to keep the fronds intact, the trunk is easy to protect, and they really seem to need fronds to produce new ones. Perhaps members here have other experiences with defoliation and come back’s of bangalows. I would love to hear those. 

[Foxpalms]

1 hour ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

I had a similar sized archonto planted in my courtyard years ago. When it was planted in its first year it grew really fast, frond wise. That was a very rainy summer. A joy to watch.  

After winter it was defoliated and never found its former speed again. The winters here are too cold to keep the fronds intact, the trunk is easy to protect, and they really seem to need fronds to produce new ones. Perhaps members here have other experiences with defoliation and come back’s of bangalows. I would love to hear those. 

It only went below freezing once here and it probably didn't at all where the palm is positioned. The problem with the Netherlands is you probably also have multiple frosts every year whilst here there are hardly any. Some more favourable parts of London didn't even go below freezing this year. What temperature did you get down to? Hopefully because mine is under canopy if we get a colder than normal  winter the heat off the wall and water will get trapped under the eucalyptus and keep the position it's in 1 or 2c warmer. Radiational freezes are the most common here unless an extreme, once every 10 years cold front happens its never below freezing when it's cloudy.

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Foxpalms

[UK_Palms]

21 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

It only went below freezing once here and it probably didn't at all where the palm is positioned. The problem with the Netherlands is you probably also have multiple frosts every year whilst here there are hardly any. Some more favourable parts of London didn't even go below freezing this year. What temperature did you get down to? Hopefully because mine is under canopy if we get a colder than normal  winter the heat off the wall and water will get trapped under the eucalyptus and keep the position it's in 1 or 2c warmer. Radiational freezes are the most common here unless an extreme, once every 10 years cold front happens its never below freezing when it's cloudy.

I have a contact in Mayfair, central London, who installed a weather station in his small back yard in 2019. The lowest he has ever recorded there is +1C in January 2021, which shows just how accentuated the microclimates are in the heart of London. You could probably grow big Archontophoenix, Kentia, Rhopalostylis and Queens in central London, but they are just so rare and hard to get over here. You would maybe have to protect them once every 20 years or so during major freezes, like 1963, 1987 and 2010. Even during those events, I doubt it ever went below -4C in the most protected parts of central London. Not even cold enough to damage Phoenix Canariensis, although a prolonged freeze like 2010 will probably cause issues for crownshafts.

One issue with the Netherlands is that they are attached to the European continent. In order for it to get really cold in Western Europe, you need a polar air mass to come across from Scandinavia and eastern Europe. Not only is the Netherlands in the firing line before us, but we also have the English Channel and North Sea acting as a buffer against the air mass and mitigating it somewhat before it arrives here. The benefit of being an island. The water is a barrier against the polar air masses. You don’t have that protection on the continent. During the Feb 2018 ‘Beast from the East’ freeze, I think central Paris went down to like -10C still. Whereas central London didn’t really go below -4C. Even 1-2 miles inland from the French Med they went down to -9C or -10C and lost many CIDP’s and exotics. There are two factors at play - the English Channel / North sea and also London’s massive UHI which is probably the biggest in Europe. The UHI alone can add 5-6C of protection on the coldest of winter nights in central London, compared to say my inland, rural location, where I have no UHI.

The fact that we are an island surrounded by water is the biggest factor though. I mean we had 16C on New Year’s Day this year in London and 20C at midnight in January for parts of England and Wales. Even Scotland reached 17-18C in January this year. Relative to the latitude (distance from the equator) nowhere in the world has winters as mild as the UK. I mean London is at the same latitude as Calgary and Saskatoon in Canada. Those places both see -35C most years. So London and the UK really is unique. Of course the Gulf Stream plays a big part in that too. Factoring in climate change, which is turning southern England and London into a Mediterranean-like climate, it is not hard to see why so many palms are thriving here. As long as we don’t get a record breaking freeze, the palm scene will only go from strength to strength in the coming years. The all-time record low at Greenwich in east London is only -8C I believe back in 1963. It has clearly warmed since then as well, so you would need the all-time record to be smashed just to defoliate the big, mature CIDP’s. Even then they would probably survive still as some survived -18C and 10 days below freezing in Dallas.

[Axel Amsterdam]

True, the reason i tried the bangalows was to see how fast they would recuperate after defoliation, i protected the trunks with some heat though. London really is something else. 

[Foxpalms]

@UK_Palms If the lowest temperature in mayfair during 2021 was was only +1 then that definitely proves the weather forecasts and hardiness zones for London are massively outdated. Some forecasts said the temperature was -4c. This year BBC forecast said the temperature on Jan 6th was -3c yet it didn't get anywhere near that cold. If kentia palms are able to survive 2018 and 2021 outside in pots it was definitely milder than the forecasts. Some of the Norfolk Island pines in central London but not the city itself such as the very dense parts like Mayfair are able to go through the winter with no damage so if those areas are a high 9b the city is definitely going to be a 10a then. There aren't too many wunderground stations in the city itself but if the places such as Chelsea, Fulham, Hammersmith, Kensington and Peckham are averaging as a 9b then that gives a decent indication to how warm the city is. Queen palms should definitely be more popular here because even in zone 9a they are common in other countries. I think we need a good run of warm summers and winters like this year to slowly bring up the averages people often look at the long term averages but I think London is in a situation where we need to look more at the recent winters and summers and use that as an average because it's more accurate to the future.

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Foxpalms

[Jamil Habib]

17 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

It looks similar to mine, except I haven’t planted my one out. I can’t here as I am 8b most winters. I need to move to a 9b zone in the coming years, which is why a lot of my palms are containerised still. I’m definitely not moving to the London concrete jungle, so I will probably move down to the Bognor-Worthing area. Somewhere I can create a palm paradise to rival Southern California.

@Jamil Habib Hey mate, how are your big Queens doing after this summer? I think me and Axel would love to see a photo update of your garden. You have the best, furthest from the equator Queens in the world. I bet they look unbelievable after this summer just gone!?

 

[UK_Palms]

@Foxpalms Absolutely no chance in hell it went down to -4C last winter in central London lol. The official Met Office station at St James Park in central London only went down to -2C but that station is right in the middle of a big, open park. At street level, near houses and in protected back yards it never would have gone below 0C. Likely only down to +1C.

I did see a picture of the Fulham Norfolk Island pine in April and it had no damage. Interestingly it has suffered a little bit of damage now, but probably from the 40C temps in July and 3 months with no rainfall. In fact that exact spot went up to 41C on Wunderground I believe. In their native range NIP don’t see anything above 30C really.

The -4C that BBC mention is surely for the outer suburbs and probably northwest London where it is coldest. Parts of northwest London are only 8b though, compared to 9b in central London, where at street level they never saw anything below 0C last winter. I think the lowest that guy in Mayfair recorded was +1.2C or something for the whole of last winter. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by UK_Palms

[Jamil Habib]

18 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

It looks similar to mine, except I haven’t planted my one out. I can’t here as I am 8b most winters. I need to move to a 9b zone in the coming years, which is why a lot of my palms are containerised still. I’m definitely not moving to the London concrete jungle, so I will probably move down to the Bognor-Worthing area. Somewhere I can create a palm paradise to rival Southern California.

@Jamil Habib Hey mate, how are your big Queens doing after this summer? I think me and Axel would love to see a photo update of your garden. You have the best, furthest from the equator Queens in the world. I bet they look unbelievable after this summer just gone!?

@UK_Palm The Queens are doing great thanks. here are the Queens and a quick look at my palms garden…. still a work in progress. It will take about 3 years to finish off and then wait another 5 for palms to settle and mature.

[Foxpalms]

@Jamil HabibAre the queen's unprotected in the winter?

[Foxpalms]

@UK_Palms When I was looking at forecasts on Jan 6th it also said areas such as chelsea and Kensington had -3c forecasted which is very wrong, the wunderground stations were no where near that cold there only around -0.5c. I think the BBC are underestimating how much warmer the urban heat island makes London in the winter

[Jamil Habib]

15 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

@Jamil HabibAre the queen's unprotected in the winter?

I protect them with a frost fleece from the start of Dec to mid March..

[Axel Amsterdam]

That’s a nice fat spear in the first  pic. 

Is the recently planted palm an armata?

Edited September 26, 2022 by Axel Amsterdam

[UK_Palms]

@Jamil Habib Those queens are doing great. I didn’t realise you had 3 big ones! The 40C heat this summer probably helped them quite a bit. Let’s hope this winter is similar to last winter and not too bad. My queens had zero protection last winter and I am out in the rural countryside. No UHI for me here. One is doing okay, whereas the other took quite a bit of damage. They were still settling in back then though. Both are growing fine again now, although very slow. I definitely under-watered them during the drought, which caused more damage and limited growth. I will try and protect them more this winter with frost cloth. I’m pretty sure you have the best Syagrus in the world above 45N? Certainly the most northernly up near Cambridge. Almost 52N.

Have you seen these? @gurugu watch his video above lol. Amazing!

[Jamil Habib]

59 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

@Jamil Habib Those queens are doing great. I didn’t realise you had 3 big ones! The 40C heat this summer probably helped them quite a bit. Let’s hope this winter is similar to last winter and not too bad. My queens had zero protection last winter and I am out in the rural countryside. No UHI for me here. One is doing okay, whereas the other took quite a bit of damage. They were still settling in back then though. Both are growing fine again now, although very slow. I definitely under-watered them during the drought, which caused more damage and limited growth. I will try and protect them more this winter with frost cloth. I’m pretty sure you have the best Syagrus in the world above 45N? Certainly the most northernly up near Cambridge. Almost 52N.

Have you seen these? @gurugu watch his video above lol. Amazing!

I do have Christmas lights on stand by if the temps ever drop below -5C, planning for a worst case scenario is always good considering the time I have spent nurturing these beauties. I have a Kentia that is doing great and it stayed outside in a pot last winter.  Planning further zone pushing by planting a few Beccariophoenix Alfredii's when they are large enough.  Also have some R. Sapida, Livistona Nitida,  Juania Australis, Attalea Phalerata, Parajubaea and a few hybrids if they manage to survive.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Jamil Habib

[Axel Amsterdam]

Jamil, have you ever seen a planted out howea in London? I have seen single trunked specimens in Lisbon and they are amazing.

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Axel Amsterdam

[gurugu]

3 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

@Jamil Habib Those queens are doing great. I didn’t realise you had 3 big ones! The 40C heat this summer probably helped them quite a bit. Let’s hope this winter is similar to last winter and not too bad. My queens had zero protection last winter and I am out in the rural countryside. No UHI for me here. One is doing okay, whereas the other took quite a bit of damage. They were still settling in back then though. Both are growing fine again now, although very slow. I definitely under-watered them during the drought, which caused more damage and limited growth. I will try and protect them more this winter with frost cloth. I’m pretty sure you have the best Syagrus in the world above 45N? Certainly the most northernly up near Cambridge. Almost 52N.

Have you seen these? @gurugu watch his video above lol. Amazing!

I knew about those Syagrus. Outstanding at that latitude! I can´t see the video though.

[Jamil Habib]

17 hours ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Jamil, have you ever seen a planted out howea in London? I have seen single trunked specimens in Lisbon and they are amazing.

 

Wow that is an amazing specimen, never seen a Howea planted out in London.

I am trying to acclimatize mine to the cold weather as an experiment. If it survives I plan on planting it out under my oak tree in the spring of 2024. 

[Foxpalms]

On 9/26/2022 at 12:23 PM, UK_Palms said:

I have a contact in Mayfair, central London, who installed a weather station in his small back yard in 2019. The lowest he has ever recorded there is +1C in January 2021, which shows just how accentuated the microclimates are in the heart of London. You could probably grow big Archontophoenix, Kentia, Rhopalostylis and Queens in central London, but they are just so rare and hard to get over here. 

Do you know what the lowest temperature they recorded during this freeze was?

[UK_Palms]

11 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

Do you know what the lowest temperature they recorded during this freeze was?

No I haven’t heard, but I couldn’t imagine it was below about -2C / 28F there. It is a protected back garden, so if the Met station right out in the open at St James Park went down to -4.4C as the absolute lowest, you can add at least 1C, possibly even 2C, on top of that for street level in protected back yards. The huge 40 foot plus Robusta in Mayfair (which I haven’t been able to post yet) wouldn’t have taken any damage from the recent freeze.

Edited December 19, 2022 by UK_Palms

[Foxpalms]

10 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

No I haven’t heard, but I couldn’t imagine it was below about -2C / 28F there. It is a protected back garden, so if the Met station right out in the open at St James Park went down to -4.4C as the absolute lowest, you can add at least 1C, possibly even 2C, on top of that for street level in protected back yards. The huge 40 foot plus Robusta in Mayfair (which I haven’t been able to post yet) wouldn’t have taken any damage from the recent freeze.

I'm not sure if you saw my post with all the howea forsteriana undamaged in central London and other zone 9b to 10a plants but I would say most of the warmer parts at street level couldn't have gotten colder than between -1 to -2.2c.  The phoenix canariensis I saw yesterday were also setting seed for the second time of the year likely because the autumn was so mild, but none of it was ready yet.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Foxpalms