Philodendrons

[metalfan]

11 hours ago, piping plovers said:

Your Regale is beautifully grown.  I’ve given up on them.  I killed 3 already. Bought all at the height of the anthurium craze; so the $math hurts my brain on losses.  Even my warocqueanums were less temperamental ☹️ than regales.

Thank you so much for that compliment. That photo has 2 separate plants. The top leaf is regale, the bottom more dark leaf is Red Crystallinum. Neither crater in the mid-40's that are sporadic and not continuous. I have been growing regale since the very early 2000's. I got in on the sale that Tropiflora in Sarasota had when Dr. Mardy Darian of CA liquidated part of his collection and they were selling (on his behalf) regale from his collection. I have others from Ecuagenera as well. I think regale prefers some coolness. I know my Metallica does....it loses leaves in the heat of summer and this summer, which was particularly wicked, it completely defoliated. It has regrown 2 new leaves since if cooled down. If you live in a cooler zone, I think there are probably a lot of cooler growing high elevation species that will do well for you.

[Tomas]

Please, any idea on how cold hardy is P. Burle Marx? There is a variegated form for sale at vwry reasonable price 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Tomas

[mnorell]

11 hours ago, Tomas said:

Please, any idea on how cold hardy is P. Burle Marx? There is a variegated form for sale at vwry reasonable price 

I think it is "marginal" in the scheme of Philodendrons in cooler climates...I used to grow it (the plain green form) in the Florida Keys, where it is common (also very much so through South and I believe also Central Florida). I also grow it here in the Palm Springs area (low desert) of Southern California. It survives (and has taken temperatures briefly right down around the freezing mark) but doesn't grow as quickly as in Southern Florida (where it can be a very pretty weed!) Mine is planted in the ground, and I keep in in a south-facing winter-suntrap area in rocky/chunky soil, in a rockery type of area, in dappled shade/sun that becomes shadier in the summer (and these can take a half day of direct summer sun in the Florida Keys). It is a strong species but I think loses some of that strength in cold/cool climates. In Roma I think you might lose it if grown in the shade (e.g., with a northern exposure). It certainly won't like any frost to speak of. The good news is that it is one of the easiest plants to propagate because good long roots emerge along the stem at the nodes. You can cut in these areas and put it in some soil or moss in a sealed bag; or just in water inside your house, and you will be surprised how quickly you will have multiple robust specimens. At that point you would be able to grow the questionable plant in an experimental way and not be afraid of losing it. There are some experienced Philo. growers here on the forum I believe, and maybe they or some others in California, or in north-central Florida, could comment on how it does in those areas...

[Tomas]

On 12/24/2023 at 7:45 AM, mnorell said:

I think it is "marginal" in the scheme of Philodendrons in cooler climates...I used to grow it (the plain green form) in the Florida Keys, where it is common (also very much so through South and I believe also Central Florida). I also grow it here in the Palm Springs area (low desert) of Southern California. It survives (and has taken temperatures briefly right down around the freezing mark) but doesn't grow as quickly as in Southern Florida (where it can be a very pretty weed!) Mine is planted in the ground, and I keep in in a south-facing winter-suntrap area in rocky/chunky soil, in a rockery type of area, in dappled shade/sun that becomes shadier in the summer (and these can take a half day of direct summer sun in the Florida Keys). It is a strong species but I think loses some of that strength in cold/cool climates. In Roma I think you might lose it if grown in the shade (e.g., with a northern exposure). It certainly won't like any frost to speak of. The good news is that it is one of the easiest plants to propagate because good long roots emerge along the stem at the nodes. You can cut in these areas and put it in some soil or moss in a sealed bag; or just in water inside your house, and you will be surprised how quickly you will have multiple robust specimens. At that point you would be able to grow the questionable plant in an experimental way and not be afraid of losing it. There are some experienced Philo. growers here on the forum I believe, and maybe they or some others in California, or in north-central Florida, could comment on how it does in those areas...

Thank you very much for the information, I just ordered the plant, we will see, I will grow it in a pot initialy

I have this Philodendron, somebody identified it as Burle Marx, but possibly it is not. This one is very hardy, survived a heavy freeze and just as you say, I cut it to pieces and have multiple plants today. The original plant lost its vigour, the stem probably got too damaged.

At the other side, some years ago I bought a big plant of Epipremnum aureum, just to see what would happen, the plant got heavily damaged even if in a protected place with no frost. I cut the remaining pieces and planted them in various spots in the garden, well, they are still alive, but there is no new growth in two or three years! 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Tomas

[metalfan]

Your philo there may be sagittifolium, or it could be something else. I am really really poor at ID'ing plain green kinda triangular shaped Philodendrons.

I've never trialed Burle Marx out here in No Central FL.  But in favorable conditions its literally like a weed

[Tomas]

I did some search in the National Garden Association (garden.org) database for philodendrons hardy to zone 9b and it returned 27 results, some realy surprising for me, I would never think about some of these to be so hardy. I would like to ask if there is someone that can agree/disagree with these results

https://garden.org/plants/group/philodendron/search/?cultivar=&select[2]=&select[4]=29&select[186]=&text[5]=&text[6]=&box_other[652]=&box_other[789]=&box_other[1651]=&box_other[790]=&box_other[41]=&box_other[42]=&box_other[43]=&box_other[728]=&text[291]=&text[290]=&box_other[1635]=&box_other[77]=&box_other[81]=&box_other[82]=&box_other[83]=&box_other[84]=&box_other[85]=&box_other[90]=&box_other[648]=&box_other[1591]=&box_other[111]=&box_other[996]=&box_other[108]=&box_other[1669]=&box_other[1511]=&select[317]=&select[438]=&text[314]=&submit=Search!&offset=20

[metalfan]

LOL a lot of those photos are MINE.

I have friends in 9B, they grow a lot of stuff outside that I cannot grow outdoors in 9A.

[Tomas]

6 hours ago, metalfan said:

LOL a lot of those photos are MINE.

I have friends in 9B, they grow a lot of stuff outside that I cannot grow outdoors in 9A.

My garden in Santa Marinella (50 km from Rome) is , I would say, a solid 9b. The lowest temperature ever mesured there is -5°C.

But aroids like philodendrons are totaly considered as houseplants here, with the usual recomendation to keep the temperature not lower than 16°C., so cnsidering them as outdoor plants for zone 9b is really new for me and hard to beliew.

Whether they will grow in our cool winters is yet to discover.

 

[metalfan]

Most of the people who grow in 9B have great success. Like anywhere else, sometimes, there is that night or nights of low temps in a winter. They throw a blanket over stuff. Here in 9A it's different. Its more likely that we will get a hard freeze than it is in 9B (although it does happen there). But philos I have had outside like Jose Buono and King of Spades have proven very hardy.  Pachyneurium anthuriums have also proven very hardy. I had some that didn't even blink Christmas 2022 when we had the 2 night freeze on 25F

[metalfan]

I'd heard something about this a while ago but its worth mentioning. Philodendron genevievianum is the same plant as Philodendron Serpens

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[Tomas]

On 1/1/2024 at 1:00 PM, metalfan said:

Most of the people who grow in 9B have great success. Like anywhere else, sometimes, there is that night or nights of low temps in a winter. They throw a blanket over stuff. Here in 9A it's different. Its more likely that we will get a hard freeze than it is in 9B (although it does happen there). But philos I have had outside like Jose Buono and King of Spades have proven very hardy.  Pachyneurium anthuriums have also proven very hardy. I had some that didn't even blink Christmas 2022 when we had the 2 night freeze on 25F

I can understand, here it is 9b but it is sure the temperatures will stay a lot around 0°C or little lower with occasional hard freezes every 5-10 years.  Not every plant likes it. But you can have a heated greenhouse, can't you. Here it is unthinkable, just a botanical garden can afford the heating bill.

Is there something special in Pachyneurium anthuriums? I do not know anything about anthuriums, tried one bird nest anthurium last year, but alredy before the first serious cold it was clear it would not make it (here the bird nest anthuriums are usually all called hookeri, so I have no idea wht it was).

I know this is not a philodendron, but what would you say about cultivation of Rhaphidophora decursiva ? For me it is easy and quite cold hardy.

 

[Keys6505]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:51 AM, Tomas said:

I would like to ask if there is someone that can agree/disagree with these results

I tried Subincisum outside here in Houston 9B and it didn't do well.  I don't think a few cold nights would necessarily be a problem, but the sub-50 degree nights for 2 months straight wore it down.  It started declining and the stem turned to rubber so I dug it and brought it inside and was able to regrow it from the roots.  

Monstera Adansonii and any Epipremnum come back here every year and make it about 6-8' up a tree before freezing down again in the winter.  They have survived as low as 15°.  My method when planting is to plant them a few feet away from anything you want them to climb so they have to scramble along the ground before the start climbing.  The stem that's along the ground will root from every node and get buried in dirt/leaf litter and that's the part that it grows back from every year.

[metalfan]

Well, my greenhouse is heated. But, its not kept as toasty as you think. I've had the greenhouse for 22 years now. When I was young and stupid, I was under the (mistaken) impression that whatever I set my heater on, that is the temp it would be in my greenhouse. But they is not true. I didn't put a remote thermometer out in the GH until about 3 years ago. And it was an eye opener. When the night time temps get into the 40's, if I set the thermostat to 60F, the GH will be around 50-55F. This is from sensors located in the 4 corners, and on the periphery. The core is much warmer ( because the heater hangs in the center back of the GH and blows the hot air straight down the middle). Some of that diffuses to the periphery, but not all of it. To get the periphery up to 60F I'd likely have to set the thermostat on 70 or 75. When its in the 30's, a setting go 56-60F keeps it at 45-50F. Usually 46-48F.

Since this has been happening for the entire 22 years I had the GH and I was ignorant of it, I have ascertained that my plants really don't care of its in the mid to high 40's. The duration of the winter here is short. We didn't even get and real 40's until almost December, then its sporadic. 45 one night, 60 the next. After some mid-30's lows last week, it was a low of 64 last night. It has not frozen here yet, our lowest temp at my house has been 35.

Pachyneurium hybrids that I raised from seed from my Anthurium Marie have been very hardy out in the yard. I did not think they would be. It was a surprise.. We can get Eipremnum aureum and pinnate up a tree here, and if you have the right microclimate (I don't bu a friend 7 miles away does) it will take the 20's without melting.

[Tomas]

14 hours ago, Keys6505 said:

I tried Subincisum outside here in Houston 9B and it didn't do well.  I don't think a few cold nights would necessarily be a problem, but the sub-50 degree nights for 2 months straight wore it down.  It started declining and the stem turned to rubber so I dug it and brought it inside and was able to regrow it from the roots.  

Monstera Adansonii and any Epipremnum come back here every year and make it about 6-8' up a tree before freezing down again in the winter.  They have survived as low as 15°.  My method when planting is to plant them a few feet away from anything you want them to climb so they have to scramble along the ground before the start climbing.  The stem that's along the ground will root from every node and get buried in dirt/leaf litter and that's the part that it grows back from every year.

Thank you for the info on P. subincisum

The idea to let the plants first scramble along the ground is interesting, I will try it even if I think the ground is not really warm in my conditions, the cold spells here are not of short duration, even if the lowest temperatures may last only two three days

[Tomas]

5 hours ago, metalfan said:

Well, my greenhouse is heated. But, its not kept as toasty as you think. I've had the greenhouse for 22 years now. When I was young and stupid, I was under the (mistaken) impression that whatever I set my heater on, that is the temp it would be in my greenhouse. But they is not true. I didn't put a remote thermometer out in the GH until about 3 years ago. And it was an eye opener. When the night time temps get into the 40's, if I set the thermostat to 60F, the GH will be around 50-55F. This is from sensors located in the 4 corners, and on the periphery. The core is much warmer ( because the heater hangs in the center back of the GH and blows the hot air straight down the middle). Some of that diffuses to the periphery, but not all of it. To get the periphery up to 60F I'd likely have to set the thermostat on 70 or 75. When its in the 30's, a setting go 56-60F keeps it at 45-50F. Usually 46-48F.

Since this has been happening for the entire 22 years I had the GH and I was ignorant of it, I have ascertained that my plants really don't care of its in the mid to high 40's. The duration of the winter here is short. We didn't even get and real 40's until almost December, then its sporadic. 45 one night, 60 the next. After some mid-30's lows last week, it was a low of 64 last night. It has not frozen here yet, our lowest temp at my house has been 35.

Pachyneurium hybrids that I raised from seed from my Anthurium Marie have been very hardy out in the yard. I did not think they would be. It was a surprise.. We can get Eipremnum aureum and pinnate up a tree here, and if you have the right microclimate (I don't bu a friend 7 miles away does) it will take the 20's without melting.

Well, with plants and gardening there is always something new to learn 🙂

I think it could be possible to place some wents to get the warm air distributed more evenly, but am sure you know how to distribute your plants depending on their sensitivity to cold. I also suppose your greenhouse gets quite warm during the day and there are not many plants that will not take the 45 F occasionaly

I now have Jose Buono, actually there are three plant in one pot, so in spring I will separate them and try at least one outside

[metalfan]

All of mine have, apparently, been taking 45-55 all winter for 22 years. I just didn't find it out until a few years ago. No there is no option for extra vents. The only option is fans in the attic to distribute heat.

Its a trade off. Cooler in winter, or 100+ in summer.  All of my aroids are very happy in the off season. Especially the higher elevation ones like Anthurium metalicum and Anthurium queremalense. All of my anthuriums are still producing new leaves on a regular basis, and producing blooms as well. I have a Falcatum with pollen, I've been looking for something to pollinate with it

[Tomas]

11 hours ago, metalfan said:

No there is no option for extra vents. The only option is fans in the attic to distribute heat.

Yes, this. Sorry, I did not realize there is a difference between them

[piping plovers]

On 1/6/2024 at 7:24 AM, metalfan said:

I didn't put a remote thermometer out in the GH until about 3 years ago. And it was an eye opener. When the night time temps get into the 40's, if I set the thermostat to 60F, the GH will be around 50-55F. This is from sensors located in the 4 corners, and on the periphery. The core is much warmer ( because the heater hangs in the center back of the GH and blows the hot air straight down the middle). Some of that diffuses to the periphery, but not all of it. To get the periphery up to 60F I'd likely have to set the thermostat on 70 or 75. When its in the 30's, a setting go 56-60F keeps it at 45-50F. Usually 46-48F.

 

On 12/30/2023 at 1:37 PM, Tomas said:

But aroids like philodendrons are totaly considered as houseplants here, with the usual recomendation to keep the temperature not lower than 16°C., so cnsidering them as outdoor plants f

I’ve been following my min/max thermometer in my small sunroom and decided to place an additional one at the far corner to see how cold it gets away from the heater.  

The sunroom is connected to the house and is tied into a legitimate hot water baseboard heating system. However, the floor beneath the sunroom has a retro fitted foundation and is not really as frost free as the house basement foundation. Last year with negative 10 degrees F outdoors (record breaking even for RI) our jacuzzi pipes under the sunroom froze but thankfully did not bust.   
 

All that to say that my aroids, philodendrons, anthuriums, palms and orchids have so far withstood as low as 49 F a night or two over the past years.  Until I have a plumber visit to see about adding a remote thermostat, I feel that some of these plants are vulnerable at the furthest glass corner end.  My Philodendron spiritus-sancti thrives in the light at the glass corner but i worry about the temperature there.

The problem I have been seeing is that the nearest thermostat is in an interior hallway.  When the thermostat is set at 70 F in the evening (yes, a warm evening temp for the plants but the bedrooms need it) the temperature in the sunroom will be 63 F and has dipped to 53 F at the far end of the small room. On these winter nights with outdoor lows in the 20s F, the sunroom typically ranges from a low of 63 to highs in the 70s F and will improve with the January February sun angle.
 

Some photos of the near end and far end.  Not a big room and to have a 17 degree F difference from the main thermostat was my eye opener😳

 

the far corner 

[metalfan]

I'm just putting this out there. If your plant growing area stays above 40F, that is a zone 10 climate. If you are lucky enough to keep it above 50, that is zone 12, and above 60, zone 13.

Unless they freeze outright, I truly believe they can tolerate a couple months at 45-50 nighttime, because, obviously, many of mine have been doing it for over 20 years.

[GeneAZ]

On 12/18/2023 at 3:24 PM, piping plovers said:

Ah, interesting to know there are two forms as well.

 

And that photo…wow, I could see the general public easily being duped into buying this narrow-form version of the species thinking they were purchasing a P. spiritus-sancti at the PSS prices (back when they were exorbitant not too long ago).  It really gives me PSS vibes. 

 

Here's my seedling PSS first adult-looking leaf on the right, next to the narrow Thamatophyllum stenolobum for comparison. 

[piping plovers]

4 hours ago, GeneAZ said:

Here's my seedling PSS first adult-looking leaf on the right, next to the narrow Thamatophyllum stenolobum for comparison. 

Oh wow, cool seeing those directly side by side.  Your PSS is looking nice with that mature narrow leaf.!

[metalfan]

WOW! nice!

[JohnAndSancho]

I finally joined the cool kids club and bought a couple philodendrons. The Brasil looks variegated - is it? Is it anything special? 

[piping plovers]

15 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

bought a couple philodendrons. The Brasil looks variegated - is it? Is it anything special? 

The red one is real nice, what is that one?

[JohnAndSancho]

3 hours ago, piping plovers said:

The red one is real nice, what is that one?

Congo Rojo. It was cheap, too. $18 HD mail order plant. 

[piping plovers]

27 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Congo Rojo. It was cheap, too. $18 HD mail order plant. 

Good deal. I’ll look for one.  Didn’t know Home Depot mail ordered plants 

[metalfan]

Brasil is always variegated

[JohnAndSancho]

3 hours ago, metalfan said:

Brasil is always variegated

Good to know. Thank you. 

[JohnAndSancho]

6 hours ago, piping plovers said:

Good deal. I’ll look for one.  Didn’t know Home Depot mail ordered plants 

I've bought a handful from them. Usually a good experience - only had one issue and that was really on UPS. 

[metalfan]

Brasil was patented in 2000. It is a natural mutation of Philodendron scandent oxycardium (heartleaf philo). It has a variety of colors on the leaves. All green, all lime green, various patterns of variegation.

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[JohnAndSancho]

Sorry for the late night low light pics that do this thing no justice, but I've been obsessed with the colors on this Congo Red. 

 

I bought this and a Brasil because the Brasil was supposed to be fast but so far this thing is radically outpacing it. 

 

I do need to repot both, any specific soil mix y'all recommend or should I follow along with the same kind of well draining mix I use for my good palms? I've got a couple 6" pots that are both wider and taller than what they're in now, and added a plethora of drainage holes. 

[metalfan]

Any good well draining mix is fine!

[Than]

I am new to philodendrons, actually I never had any, but I am thinking of getting a philodendron nangaritense. Supposedly rare and quite beautiful. Does anyone have it?

Do you think it would survive a wet 9b winter outdoors?

[metalfan]

No, they aren't 'rare'. They are very readily available from online vendors in the US, I don't know about Greece.

[Than]

50 minutes ago, metalfan said:

No, they aren't 'rare'. They are very readily available from online vendors in the US, I don't know about Greece.

everything but olive trees and oleanders is rare here

[metalfan]

Ah. I guess you'd have to import it then. They are very common here. 

[metalfan]

Philodendron Golden Erubescens, a cutting made when I chopped up my old mother plant that had outgrown its space. One of like 10 LOL. Now they are all over the greenhouse

B235FB6D-313F-41BC-824B-A2206A7D355C_1_201_a.heic

[piping plovers]

1 hour ago, metalfan said:

Now they are all over the greenhouse

Lovely colors.  I never have the heart to throw em away and then I’m swamped with duplicates until I can find someone to adopt them. 

[metalfan]

Yeah same here. Most of my Philodendrons are really old. So when they reach maturity and have climbed as far up as they can in my greenhouse, I have to prop them. I usually get 10+ cuttings from anything I cut. It's simply not warm enough here in winter consistently yet to grow these outside, although we have been getting warmer and warmer almost every year. I have Jose Buono out that has survived multiple winters, I put Brasil in a tree last winter and it made it through the only really freeze we had (27F, one night), I have Painted Lady out that also made it through. I am going to trial more out to see what happens