New pics of what growing out of Old Man Palm crown

[PalmGuyPSL]

Here are new pics of what’s going on. First pics is a week a go and the rest are current. All fronds on Palm are green and nothing is loose and able to be pulled out of the crown. 

 

[ZPalms]

Is that a frond or something, It looks so mushroomy or fungus like, I can't really tell what that is

[Las Palmas Norte]

??? 

[SeanK]

Seeing the 1/2 leaf that's damaged, I'd guess cold or root problem. I think we're looking at the top of the newest leaf as it emarges. Crinita is said to take a little frost, but I don't know how much.

[PalmGuyPSL]

This past winter we did go as low as 32 F for three days in a row.  Had a few fronds come out with some frost damage. Now I had a few that were short and have. Relate a cup effect around the top. Now this thing came out and it’s growing fast. It took one week to get that noticeable. If you pull on it it is firmly in the crown so no rot there.  I have gotten all but two of my different palm from the same grower over here and sent the pictures and she is saying it is a bug problem and to do a treatment of Immidioclopid as a root bath to get it into the plant

[Merlyn]

Squirt some generic household hydrogen peroxide on it.  If it bubbles up, it is a fungus.  If it does not, it is some other problem.  I've been treating similar issues with a mix of Daconil + hydrogen peroxide with good results.  32F for a couple of nights is definitely enough to cause frond damage and cause a crown fungal infection on Old Man palms.

[PalmGuyPSL]

I will give that a try.   If it foams up I will have to pick up some Daconil

[PalmGuyPSL]

New picture from today.  Now showing that one of these odd things growing is showing it is a deformed palm frond.

 

[Merlyn]

Occasionally palm fronds get "stuck" in the crown, and the palm usually grows out of it.  But I'd still suspect a boron deficiency, with the twisted nature and stunted frond size.  Figures 10 and 11 show the "accordion leaf" where the frond ends up crumpled up.  The cure is usually a SMALL amount of borax powder mixed with water and poured around the root area.  I emphasize small because too much is toxic to plants (and humans and bugs too).  So it's better to err on the side of a bit too little and dose it again in a month.  Additional boron will help new fronds grow out normally, but will not affect existing fronds.  Basically once it's grown out weird the palm will not be able to "fix" a grown frond.  Here's some info on boron:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP264

http://idtools.org/id/palms/symptoms/factsheet.php?name=Boron+Deficiency

There might be something else going on too, like a root problem (maybe root rot from being too wet?) or maybe it was affected by the May-June drought?  Can you post a photo of the whole palm again?  If I recall correctly it was in a grassy area, so maybe it's getting overwatered from grass sprinklers, or the lawn fertilizer is affecting it?  Usually it's a good idea to leave a mulch ring around palms in yard areas, and not fertilize with fast release lawn fertilizer right up next to the palm. 

Did the hydrogen peroxide fizzle up?

[PalmGuyPSL]

The palm is actually tucked back away from the lawn and there are low growing juniper in front and on the side. But there is a ring about 3 fr round at the base with mulch around it. I always use slow release fertilizer around my palms that I actually get from the palm grower I get my palms from.  Peroxide did not foam up at all when applied. I did put some AG Southern foliage spray today to try and help. Also my palm supplier suggested to use some immidioclopid for a possible bug problem.    Irrigation over here goes on three times a week and is HOA controlled.  The one thing I can tell you about that is they use reclaimed water. 

[Merlyn]

If H2O2 didn't bubble at all, then there's no fungus.  I'd think about a 86.78% chance (totally scientific SWAG) of it being a boron deficiency, and not a transient one.  If it were just one frond I'd think random transient deficiency maybe due to tons of rain washing away available boron while that one set of fronds was growing.  But with several sets of fronds in a row being stunted and slightly deformed, it looks like it is a deficiency slowly getting worse over time.  If you are on high pH soil (coastal coral shell sand) then boron is very difficult for plants to take up:

My soil in Orlando is in the "slightly acid" to "medium acid" range so iron, manganese and magnesium are my problem nutrients.  The juniper might be competing for nutrients too, hard to say.  Reclaimed water has leftover sanitizing chemicals and salts, which might affect nutrient uptake.  Southern Ag Palm Nutritional I think is Iron, Manganese, and Magnesium, so it won't affect a boron deficiency.  And some fertilizers contain a lot of micronutrients but not boron.  I'd ask your palm supplier if they know.  Either way, go buy a box of 20 Mule Team Borax and dissolve about 1oz in a 5 gallon bucket, and pour around the palm's mulch bed.  As the UFL page noted, it may take ~5 months for brand new fronds to grow out normally.

[NOT A TA]

Any possibility that any type of weed killer was used in the area a few months ago? The damage shown below was caused about 5-6 months before pic was taken.

 

This is an example of lawn weed killer damage caused by commercial lawn service spray application.

[PalmGuyPSL]

I myself do not spray weed killer over there but my HOA does spray periodically so can’t say that might not have happened.  I do have two 14 foot foxtails and a 10 foot Capernicia Alba in the same front yard area and no problem there. Did your Palm survive after that?

[Looking Glass]

19 hours ago, Merlyn said:

If H2O2 didn't bubble at all, then there's no fungus.  I'd think about a 86.78% chance (totally scientific SWAG) of it being a boron deficiency, and not a transient one.  If it were just one frond I'd think random transient deficiency maybe due to tons of rain washing away available boron while that one set of fronds was growing.  But with several sets of fronds in a row being stunted and slightly deformed, it looks like it is a deficiency slowly getting worse over time.  If you are on high pH soil (coastal coral shell sand) then boron is very difficult for plants to take up:

My soil in Orlando is in the "slightly acid" to "medium acid" range so iron, manganese and magnesium are my problem nutrients.  The juniper might be competing for nutrients too, hard to say.  Reclaimed water has leftover sanitizing chemicals and salts, which might affect nutrient uptake.  Southern Ag Palm Nutritional I think is Iron, Manganese, and Magnesium, so it won't affect a boron deficiency.  And some fertilizers contain a lot of micronutrients but not boron.  I'd ask your palm supplier if they know.  Either way, go buy a box of 20 Mule Team Borax and dissolve about 1oz in a 5 gallon bucket, and pour around the palm's mulch bed.  As the UFL page noted, it may take ~5 months for brand new fronds to grow out normally.

I thought, early on, that this was perhaps Mn deficiency, as there was shrinking new leaves, figuring Boron would be more transient of the new-leaf issues.  But I agree, now that a blob of unopened, corrugated fronds is present, Boron is more likely.  

[Merlyn]

3 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

I thought, early on, that this was perhaps Mn deficiency, as there was shrinking new leaves, figuring Boron would be more transient of the new-leaf issues.  But I agree, now that a blob of unopened, corrugated fronds is present, Boron is more likely.  

Yeah I thought some kind of root rot or super high pH soil maybe causing other deficiencies, but the older fronds here look pretty good:

If there was an Mn or Mg deficiency you'd probably see some streaking or other issues.  All that's there is maybe a mild potassium deficiency in one frond, but the rest look awesome.  That's what made me think boron as the primary cause.  https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP267

However... @NOT A TA has a good point there.  2,4-D doesn't technically kill palms, but it's been responsible for some really bizarre and distorted frond growth in palms and cycads.  I think 2,4-D might hurt or kill a juniper, but there are some other "pro" weedkillers that might cause distorted growth in palms.

[NOT A TA]

On 8/12/2022 at 10:25 PM, PalmGuyPSL said:

I myself do not spray weed killer over there but my HOA does spray periodically so can’t say that might not have happened.  I do have two 14 foot foxtails and a 10 foot Capernicia Alba in the same front yard area and no problem there. Did your Palm survive after that?

@PalmGuyPSL I mentioned the possibility of weed killer damage because the older fronds in your pics look fine, then a partially formed one appears stunted, then the deformed one.

I hired a (cheap) lawn spray company a couple years ago in an attempt to spend less time trying to get my lawn to look nice. The first time they sprayed weed killer I lost a whole hedge of Corn plants and there was damage to a couple palms and a few Cycads. Next time they sprayed weed killer I spoke with the company owner beforehand  about having lost all the corn plants and the damage to the palms. I requested they stay away from the palms planted in ground and told him I'd take care of those areas manually. A few palms showed damage after that application. The next time I insisted they stay several feet from the in ground palms and got the results shown in pics. So I decided three strikes and you're out. The next time they arrived I told them not to spray and showed them the damage they'd caused.

The "foreman" insisted it was insect damage and said he knew and was sure because he went to college. Some questioning revealed that he'd taken the spray applicators license class at a community college, but had no other formal training. So I explained that I had a lot more education and experience and was positive it was not insect damage. I beheaded several palms with the contorted/stunted new growth to prove my point, no insects. I then pointed out that there are thousands of palms in growers pots on the property with no symptoms, meanwhile every planted palm (about a dozen) with a trunk less than 6" diameter near a lawn area had been damaged since I hired the company. He still insisted it was insect damage. Some folks refuse to learn from their mistakes, so I'll find a new company.

While 2,4-D is commonly used to control broad leaf weeds the commercial formulations used here also contain chemicals intended to kill monocot weeds because there are so many types of sedge etc. that we don't want. The chemicals intended for monocot weeds may also be a problem since palms are monocot plants. 

All of the palms planted on my property are pinnate so I don't have palmate types to show any damage on.  Symptoms I've observed are spear breaking off, contorted and stunted spear, weak petioles of fronds that are still in development when herbicide was applied, and death of the plant. Cycads showed yellowing and leaflet drop, but I have not observed any of the contorted new growth (which may just be due to the timing of spray applications).

Petiole may kink from weakness as seen below.

Contorted/stunted frond trying to develop below.

Below are three beheaded Adonidia merrillii along with two that weren't as bad, the middle one will not survive. The two complete ones have started pushing out normal spears again although the plants would be almost twice as big as they are now if they hadn't been damaged twice by herbicides.

 

 

 

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[PalmGuyPSL]

Merlyn I found a palm fertilizer called perfect palm online it contains both boron and manganese. Have you ever heard of this fertilizer, if not I think it looks like a good product. I was thinking about using this instead of borax or possibly using both.  Thought you might want to take a look at it.   palmtreefertilizer.com

[Merlyn]

I haven't heard of that one, but the ratios and components seem pretty reasonable.  A 3-1-4 or 3-1-3 ratio is generally good in FL, and the 13-5-13 is fairly close to that ratio.  I've used 6-1-8, 8-4-8, 8-2-12 and 13-3-13 with minor nutrients, all have worked well in my sandy soil in the Orlando area.  The minors are 1.5% calcium, 3% Magnesium, 0.15% Boron, 0.26% Copper, 2% Iron, 3% Manganese, 0.36% Zinc.

This is a bit different than PalmGain 8-2-12, but similar.  PalmGain is 4% Magnesium, 0.08% Boron, 0.06% Copper, 2.12% Iron, 1% Manganese, 0.58% Zinc.  I'm not edumacated enough to know which one is better, but price-wise they are similar and the extra Boron in Perfect Palm might be a bonus.

[PalmGuyPSL]

This is what it looks like now.  I have used a systemic additive to the soil with fertilizer mixed in at the suggestion of the palm grower that I purchased the palm from. I also used a foliage spray and some borax. It looks like the third frond that is starting to pull away from the central stalk looks like it is going to be normal.

 

[Looking Glass]

The youngest emerging frond doesn’t look terribly bad.  Looks more like an early-normal coccothrinax spear.  

Edited August 25, 2022 by Looking Glass

[Merlyn]

@PalmGuyPSL it looks like the newest frond is quite a bit bigger than the previous couple.  That's definitely a good sign.  I'd guess whatever happened to it was back in late winter or spring.  A frond can take a couple of months to grow from the heart up to full size, so usually stuff like this is "latent damage" from a while back.  Since it is pushing new fronds pretty quick then hopefully the next set will come out clean!