Is this a fungus?

[JohnAndSancho]

I know some plants naturally have black spots - when I first got into palms, I was so worried about the spots on my D. Lutescens that I wiped them down with alcohol every day for a week 

 

This is my C. Benezeii - the spots are on the trunk and the older leaves. Yesssss the bottom fronds look really ratty because of where it sits on my patio, it gets beat up since it's basically a turnstile - and also they're like 3 years old. Anyway - the new frond doesn't have these spots. It's still growing, trunking, throwing new fronds, flowering again, etc etc. You can clearly see there are no black spots on the newest, just opened leaf. 

 

Is this fungus, or is this normal for this species? 

[Merlyn]

@JohnAndSancho picture?

[JohnAndSancho]

  On 7/20/2022 at 12:50 AM, Merlyn said:

@JohnAndSancho picture?

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Sorry. Thought it posted. 

[JohnAndSancho]

Bumpity bump bump. Forgive the bottle cap in the soil. 

[JohnAndSancho]

Bump again. It's only on this one palm 

[96720]

The new frond looks great!! Are the black spots raised? If so it might be scale!!

[JohnAndSancho]

  On 7/21/2022 at 3:21 AM, 96720 said:

The new frond looks great!! Are the black spots raised? If so it might be scale!!

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No. They aren't raised, they don't wipe off with alcohol, etc. They're just kinda there.

[Merlyn]

Here's my notes on deficiencies:

• Nitrogen Older fronds turn light green uniformly, new fronds remain dark green until deficiency is really severe
• Potassium Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving inwards
• Magnesium Yellow linear bands on leaves but generally transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Never causes leaf tip necrosis
• Iron Many times caused by overly mucky soil and root rot. Starts with new spear leaves with yellow-green or even white, possibly with spots of green.
• Manganese Lengthwise necrotic streaks in leaves with dead and curled leaf tips. Similar to bands showing Magnesium deficiency
• Boron Bent or necrotic or distorted leaf tips, distorted or bent spear, bands of dead spots on new fans, spears that won't fully open
• Water Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color
• Dolomitic Lime or Azomite Magnesium Carbonate – slower release and adds Magnesium, helps avoid Potassium deficiencies in Cuban Copernicias. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis
• Garden Lime Calcium Carbonate – fast release but works well. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis

I would guess it's got some Manganese deficiency, with the linear yellow bands and dead tips.  You could add a small amount of granular manganese sulfate to the pot, and maybe a touch of SulPoMag for a bit of extra Potassium and Magnesium.  It might just be deficiencies and an opportunistic fungus.  I have very little experience with palms in pot, so take my suggestions with a grain of...er...manganese sulfate. 

[JohnAndSancho]

  On 7/21/2022 at 8:08 PM, Merlyn said:

Here's my notes on deficiencies:

• Nitrogen Older fronds turn light green uniformly, new fronds remain dark green until deficiency is really severe
• Potassium Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving inwards
• Magnesium Yellow linear bands on leaves but generally transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Never causes leaf tip necrosis
• Iron Many times caused by overly mucky soil and root rot. Starts with new spear leaves with yellow-green or even white, possibly with spots of green.
• Manganese Lengthwise necrotic streaks in leaves with dead and curled leaf tips. Similar to bands showing Magnesium deficiency
• Boron Bent or necrotic or distorted leaf tips, distorted or bent spear, bands of dead spots on new fans, spears that won't fully open
• Water Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color
• Dolomitic Lime or Azomite Magnesium Carbonate – slower release and adds Magnesium, helps avoid Potassium deficiencies in Cuban Copernicias. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis
• Garden Lime Calcium Carbonate – fast release but works well. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis

I would guess it's got some Manganese deficiency, with the linear yellow bands and dead tips.  You could add a small amount of granular manganese sulfate to the pot, and maybe a touch of SulPoMag for a bit of extra Potassium and Magnesium.  It might just be deficiencies and an opportunistic fungus.  I have very little experience with palms in pot, so take my suggestions with a grain of...er...manganese sulfate. 

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I fed it some slow release and lots of water. I guess I should buy some SulPoMag, I think most of other my palms would appreciate it too. This heat has been brutal, and I think this guy in particular isn't suited for months of 100 degree dry heat. This is date palm weather lol 

[Merlyn]

@JohnAndSancho the leaf stuff does look like a deficiency, the black spots on the rachis and leaf bases could be a fungus.  I don't know anything about the species other than looking it up on Palmpedia.  Most Chamaedorea don't like it brutally hot, so I suppose that could be affecting it.  Rachis blights are frequently systemic, so you'd need something like Aliette (aluminum tris) or Banrot (etridiazole + thiophanate-methyl), or Clearys 3336F (etridiazole).  Surface stuff like Mancozeb or Daconil may help if it looks like a "fruiting body" under a jeweler's loupe.  I'd be concerned if the new leaf has black spots, but if the other fronds are 3+ years old it might just need nutrition and water and heat relief.

[JohnAndSancho]

  On 7/22/2022 at 12:58 PM, Merlyn said:

@JohnAndSancho the leaf stuff does look like a deficiency, the black spots on the rachis and leaf bases could be a fungus.  I don't know anything about the species other than looking it up on Palmpedia.  Most Chamaedorea don't like it brutally hot, so I suppose that could be affecting it.  Rachis blights are frequently systemic, so you'd need something like Aliette (aluminum tris) or Banrot (etridiazole + thiophanate-methyl), or Clearys 3336F (etridiazole).  Surface stuff like Mancozeb or Daconil may help if it looks like a "fruiting body" under a jeweler's loupe.  I'd be concerned if the new leaf has black spots, but if the other fronds are 3+ years old it might just need nutrition and water and heat relief.

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Something else occurred to me. I probably didn't fertilize enough in spring. I'm still a newbie, don't judge me too harshly. Since my pots are all fairly small, I just put plastic spoons in my fertilizer containers and lightly sprinkled them all. Since my soil drains really well, and I've had to water everything so much more due to the drought, I'm probably rinsing most of it out. And when I followed the directions on my Carl Pool  umm 1/3 cup is a lot more than 2 spoonfuls.

 

And now I'm seeing the yellowing on almost everything. I bought a ton of Jobes spikes when I first started buying palms, so I guess I can poke those in the smaller pots, and buy some SulPoMag and switch from fish juice to liquid seaweed and see how it goes. The heat isn't going anywhere for a few more months. 

 

Thanks fam. 

[Merlyn]

I'd guess if you are seeing yellowing everywhere, extra fertilizer like Osmocote or Nutricote may be a good long term solution.  A general purpose broad fertilizer is probably a better choice than Sulpomag.  That's good for a specific deficiency, but a broad dose would be better.

[JohnAndSancho]

  On 7/23/2022 at 12:43 AM, Merlyn said:

I'd guess if you are seeing yellowing everywhere, extra fertilizer like Osmocote or Nutricote may be a good long term solution.  A general purpose broad fertilizer is probably a better choice than Sulpomag.  That's good for a specific deficiency, but a broad dose would be better.

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I've been using Carl Pool as a slow release, Jobes organic palm food (4-4-4) probably not enough in between, and every 3rd watering or so gets what I call "stink water" - it's Alaska fish emulsion and SuperThrive diluted to approx an iced tea color.  I've heard it's impossible to overfertilize with Osmocote. 

 

Edit: if it's an all-in replacement I'm sure Osmocote smells better than dumping fish juice and chicken poop on my patio in 100 degree heat. 

[DoomsDave]

@JohnAndSancho that looks like a nice Chamadorea benzeii you got there. I’ve got a couple on the ground that have been there about ten years. They’re a hard plant to find; I haven’t seen any out here for sale lately.

Yours looks like a nice normally developing specimen with a nice robust trunk. Looks like it’s in a five gallon pot; if so you might eventually want to step it up to a seven or even a ten gallon. As it grows it will get taller and want to fall over; it also will get a bigger root system that will benefit from more space.

Long term container ranch specimens do need watching in the nutrient area, though I’m with @Merlyn on his comments; best to provide overall basic nutrients unless you have hard evidence of a serious deficiency. 
 

Maybe I’ll do the Chamadorea Benz song …..

[JohnAndSancho]

  On 7/23/2022 at 3:21 AM, DoomsDave said:

@JohnAndSancho that looks like a nice Chamadorea benzeii you got there. I’ve got a couple on the ground that have been there about ten years. They’re a hard plant to find; I haven’t seen any out here for sale lately.

Yours looks like a nice normally developing specimen with a nice robust trunk. Looks like it’s in a five gallon pot; if so you might eventually want to step it up to a seven or even a ten gallon. As it grows it will get taller and want to fall over; it also will get a bigger root system that will benefit from more space.

Long term container ranch specimens do need watching in the nutrient area, though I’m with @Merlyn on his comments; best to provide overall basic nutrients unless you have hard evidence of a serious deficiency. 
 

Maybe I’ll do the Chamadorea Benz song …..

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I bought it from @Phil, like most of my "I can't find this anywhere" palms. Everyone jokes about his shipping costs but homey has stuff you can't get anywhere else so *shrugs*

I'm definitely soaking up the knowledge, and all of my palms are in pots since I live in a tiny apartment. My benezeii is in a 7g pot but unfortunately (see other threads) is more or less a turnstile and everyone coming into my apartment has to move the older fronds out of the way to get in. My dog Sancho (a very fat Chihuahua) is the exception, but his leash snags on the fronds when I take him out. 

 

I reached out to Phil and intended to move this palm into my office, and he agreed that was a good idea but that ain't viable anymore - and moving it anywhere on my patio would lead to severe sunburn even before the stupid drought and triple digit temps here in SE TX. 

 

I can bring it indoors but it'll suffer from lack of light and water. The struggle. 

 

 

[DoomsDave]

  On 7/23/2022 at 3:50 AM, JohnAndSancho said:

I bought it from @Phil, like most of my "I can't find this anywhere" palms. Everyone jokes about his shipping costs but homey has stuff you can't get anywhere else so *shrugs*

I'm definitely soaking up the knowledge, and all of my palms are in pots since I live in a tiny apartment. My benezeii is in a 7g pot but unfortunately (see other threads) is more or less a turnstile and everyone coming into my apartment has to move the older fronds out of the way to get in. My dog Sancho (a very fat Chihuahua) is the exception, but his leash snags on the fronds when I take him out. 

 

I reached out to Phil and intended to move this palm into my office, and he agreed that was a good idea but that ain't viable anymore - and moving it anywhere on my patio would lead to severe sunburn even before the stupid drought and triple digit temps here in SE TX. 

 

I can bring it indoors but it'll suffer from lack of light and water. The struggle. 

 

 

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Hmm. It might be okay inside, though I can also understand your concerns. My specimens are under pretty heavy canopy, though still not the same as indoors.

[DoomsDave]

@JohnAndSancho
Here’s my specimen or one of them. Damn, poor thing hadn’t been cleaned in a while.

That annoying Palm grass is encroaching.

 

 

[DoomsDave]

So I cleaned it.

Much spiffier now. 

Actually two plants.

[JohnAndSancho]

  On 7/23/2022 at 3:21 AM, DoomsDave said:

@JohnAndSancho that looks like a nice Chamadorea benzeii you got there. I’ve got a couple on the ground that have been there about ten years. They’re a hard plant to find; I haven’t seen any out here for sale lately.

Yours looks like a nice normally developing specimen with a nice robust trunk. Looks like it’s in a five gallon pot; if so you might eventually want to step it up to a seven or even a ten gallon. As it grows it will get taller and want to fall over; it also will get a bigger root system that will benefit from more space.

Long term container ranch specimens do need watching in the nutrient are @MerlynI’ll do the Chamadorea Benz song …..

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Are the lyrics "Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Chamaedorea Benz?" Thanks for the pics of yours. 

 

Yeah, mine is still in the same nursery pot it shipped in. I've had it for at least a year. I've made jokes about it's perpetual horniness a few times since it's constantly trying to flower. It's got 2 or 3 rings of trunk already, so it's not terribly unhappy. It's just not as pretty as it could be. It's pretty well shaded, but we're also setting record breaking heat on an almost daily basis. 

 

I keep my apartment pretty cold, and I'd have to buy another lamp for a grow bulb for him. I know these are understory palms that grow in cooler climates - do you think going from 110° heat indexes to a 67° apartment would shock it? 

 

Also, then I need to buy something else growing more vertical to replace it 

[DoomsDave]

I did the song for an auction heaven help us all.

[JohnAndSancho]

  On 7/24/2022 at 5:20 AM, DoomsDave said:

I did the song for an auction heaven help us all.

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As long as you got a decent price. I pulled my receipt and I paid $95 in shipping for a $100 palm lol 

[DoomsDave]

  On 7/24/2022 at 5:40 AM, JohnAndSancho said:

As long as you got a decent price. I pulled my receipt and I paid $95 in shipping for a $100 palm lol 

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If it was for a relatively big palm, not so bad. 

[JohnAndSancho]

@ZPalms here bruh. 

 

@DoomsDave I can't complain. My Benezeii was big enough that they had to break a frond to squeeze it into a box. I dunno if you've ever had to mail order from Jungle Music but they pack things well enough that UPS could literally air drop it and no soil would spill out. Plus from a palm dork standpoint I know that nobody else in at least a 50 mile radius has one. Just please tell me the song wasn't "Oh Lord Won't you buy me a Chamaedorea Benz"

[JohnAndSancho]

Welp. I suck and I've been letting my job consume my life. This is the new leaf that looked so great last month. I'm sure another 30 days of triple digit temps haven't helped. 

 

I bought new stuff to add to my Stink Water (more fish emulsion, a kelp/humic acid blend) and copper fungicide to be safe - but we've been having rain in the forecast (that hasn't shown)

 

I do want this one happy since it's kinda rare.