Satakentia Saddness

[Looking Glass]

Well, this year there have been a few bumps in the road....

The two Satakentia out from went from pathetic little beanpoles, to pretty stout, strong palms.   They are some of my fastest growers.  Popping spears like clockwork.  

May 2021....

 

July 2022....

The other day I noticed a leaf wasn't opening like normal on the strongest of the two.  Normally it cracks apart, leaving the new, thin spear of the next leaf, and then pops and opens fully in a couple more days.  This one was lingering.   

So on closer inspection, the new spear seems to have had some rot, and. pushed it out.   Perhaps corresponding to our 10 inch rain event the 1st week of June.   

A little section of the emerging spear has rotted away.   This leaf will eventually break off, taking the spear of the leaf after it with it.   That will be a setback.  And that's probably the best case scenario.   

The crown seems intact, and there is no reaction with hydrogen peroxide.   I'll probably hit it with copper and some pesticide just in case.  

Anyone ever had a problem like this?

I was pretty sad/depressed to see this, as these guys have been doing so well and area starting to look really nice.  

Any thoughts?       

[Tyrone]

Is it still pushing growth? If so, don’t worry. I reckon it’ll grow out of it. The copper fungicide is probably a good idea but don’t overdo the copper fungicide. I’ve got some Beccariophoenix alfredii that did the same thing after a mega flood event here. I didn’t even treat them but they’re growing out of it. 

[sonoranfans]

use fungicide only no need for pesticide.  I use daconil it adheres to the spear(its thick) so it will have extended contact with the fungus.  Never saw a satakentia do that, but all mine are in shade and high drainage soil.  A physical shock may weaken the immune system temporarily.  Fungus is always around, but plants mostly defend against it successfully.  I rarely will use a pesticides unless a drastic situation exists, it kills beneficial soil microbes.  I have used fungicides at times on various palms typically for spear infections.   One thing to remember is to reduce or shut off irrigation during heavy rain weeks.   This would be particularly true if your soil doesnt drain well.

[Johnny Palmseed]

Don’t give up hope, you are in the middle of the growing season and have time for it to push through. Even with your setback, I’m jealous of your ability to grow these. They look quite happy. I could never get them to grow well. I have no shade and they seemed to hate my soil. I have been heavily amending my beds and I bought a cheap community pot of seedlings at the Palm Beach PACS sale to try again.

[Kim]

Hope that disturbing issue resolves for you -- these are gorgeous palms. 

[Looking Glass]

3 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

use fungicide only no need for pesticide.  I use daconil it adheres to the spear(its thick) so it will have extended contact with the fungus.  Never saw a satakentia do that, but all mine are in shade and high drainage soil.  A physical shock may weaken the immune system temporarily.  Fungus is always around, but plants mostly defend against it successfully.  I rarely will use a pesticides unless a drastic situation exists, it kills beneficial soil microbes.  I have used fungicides at times on various palms typically for spear infections.   One thing to remember is to reduce or shut off irrigation during heavy rain weeks.   This would be particularly true if your soil doesnt drain well.

I don’t have the irrigation on a timer for the past year.  I just turn it on manually as needed.  The spot drains well.  The sun doesn’t seem to bother these at this size any more (though it did last year).  I think they are now past the sun fragile stage.  They are lined up east- west and that one gets the setting western sun directly and is growing noticeably fatter/bigger than its more shaded bro now.   I guess I should get some daconil.   I’d normally spray some bifenthrin just on the spot of rot too, but maybe there is no need.  
So strange to see rot on these, as they seem to want a lot of water, and come from an area where it rains constantly, year round.  
 

9 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Is it still pushing growth? If so, don’t worry. I reckon it’ll grow out of it. The copper fungicide is probably a good idea but don’t overdo the copper fungicide. I’ve got some Beccariophoenix alfredii that did the same thing after a mega flood event here. I didn’t even treat them but they’re growing out of it. 

I went to mark the spear today, but there is no need.  It rained intermittently the last two days and it clearly pushed the rot spot up several inches.  The area of rot measure an 8 inch section of the spear.   Below and above look fine.   

the other day….

 

Today….

 

There really is no connection in this 8 inch section though… the spear is gone.  Just the fused leaflets holding things together for now, when it opens, the top 4/5ths will break off….

[kinzyjr]

20 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

A little section of the emerging spear has rotted away.   This leaf will eventually break off, taking the spear of the leaf after it with it.   That will be a setback.  And that's probably the best case scenario.   

The crown seems intact, and there is no reaction with hydrogen peroxide.   I'll probably hit it with copper and some pesticide just in case.  

Anyone ever had a problem like this?

I was pretty sad/depressed to see this, as these guys have been doing so well and area starting to look really nice.  

Any thoughts?

In my case, I see it happen after a wet-cold event like we had this January.  In your case, looks like you said - a result of a deluge of rain.  Since it is pushing out of it, you're in good shape long-term, but the frond might be a bit disfigured. 

I have a frond on my Maypan that has leaflets missing about half way up where there was a temporary fungal infection in the crown due to wet-cold this winter.  That's probably similar to what you will see when this frond opens.

[Looking Glass]

17 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

In my case, I see it happen after a wet-cold event like we had this January.  In your case, looks like you said - a result of a deluge of rain.  Since it is pushing out of it, you're in good shape long-term, but the frond might be a bit disfigured. 

I have a frond on my Maypan that has leaflets missing about half way up where there was a temporary fungal infection in the crown due to wet-cold this winter.  That's probably similar to what you will see when this frond opens.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.  With Satakentias, they don’t push one spear after another.   The next spear is already contained within the current one.  When a leaf opens, the next spear is half grown within.  

So when this breaks off, it’s going to take this leaf and the next one too.  We will see what happens after that.  But best case scenario is that it’s going to be an ugly duckling for a long time.  

[Looking Glass]

Well, it did push up a few feet, and a 3 foot section broke off, and the rest popped open.  The nice thing is that when it broke off, it left the spear of the next leaf intact, though it’s a little smaller than usual.  Might be just a one leaf event after all.   
 

[realarch]

It happens from time to time with some of my palms. When I see it happening, I drench the growth point with hydrogen peroxide. I usually do it three or four times.

Tim

[Looking Glass]

37 minutes ago, realarch said:

It happens from time to time with some of my palms. When I see it happening, I drench the growth point with hydrogen peroxide. I usually do it three or four times.

Tim

I did hit it with peroxide down the crown, at first, but no bubbles.   Hit it will copper a couple times just in case.  The spear was initially fine, just pushed up an 8inch rotted spot by the time I noticed things were moving slowly for this time of year.  Seems to have grown through it hopefully.  

[Looking Glass]

The leaf fully opened and fell to the side, leaving the next spear intact.  That has pushed up nicely now…..  all seems to be ok.   

 

I guess the spears are kind of more glued together then pop apart, like this one, on the other one now…..   

 

D Leptocheilos double spears a lot, but the are sequential emerging spikes like most of the other palms I’ve got…..

It will be interesting to track the life of the broken leaf over time.  It will be easy to follow to completion.  Wonder if it lasts a year?  18 months?  We shall see.  

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Looking Glass

[Looking Glass]

Well Satakentia #1 put out two nice leaves and is working on a third since “the incident”.  
I pulled at some of the basilar wrappings the other day, and low and behold in the sunrise…. Let there be trunk!  A first tiny glimpse of purple….

 

I have to say, in a sea of slow palms, these are likely my fastest.  The grass has swamped the mulch again, and with personal turmoil at home I’ve have no time to correct it.   Happy to see this one doing well again.  

[Johnny Palmseed]

“Personal turmoil”- I feel your pain. It never goes away and it seems to get worse as time goes on. At least your palms look fantastic. I’m envious of how good these look.

[Looking Glass]

2 hours ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

“Personal turmoil”- I feel your pain. It never goes away and it seems to get worse as time goes on. At least your palms look fantastic. I’m envious of how good these look.

Lol!…. “Just stop all this nonsense, and go away, and let me mulch, …FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!!” 

 

[palmfriend]

A beautiful palm - I am glad that it turned out well!

When I started to grow palms here on Miyako in Okinawa I had no interest in indigene palms but I got to admit that the Satakentia species 

is definitely a (very) beautiful one. With experiencing a couple typhoons and other threats (rhinoceros beetle) I have changed my mind and

started to grow them, too. They are storm-proof, immune to beetle attacks and looking spectacular - so why not growing them...

I am glad that I have one already beyond seedling stage - they are never offered here in nurseries - and I am impressed about its speed

of growth. 

Max. four or five years from seed, I bit rattled after two typhoons but throwing constantly new spears.

Happy to have it!

 

Lars

 

[Looking Glass]

Well, I spruced up around the Satakentias, yanked all the grass again, and remulched, and put in a barrier this time.   I nicked a few roots.   Hopefully that causes no issues.  


 

[D. Morrowii]

They look fantastic! I have a feeling that they aren't very root sensitive since the one I bought had 3’ long trampled roots extending out of a 3 gal pot has grown great since planting. 

[Kaname-kun]

Your Satakentias have grown so fast! They look amazing. 

[dalmatiansoap]

Beautiful plants 😍!

Any experience with potted Satakentias? They are too sensitive for our climate but if they can be well grown in pots, i would looooove to give one a happy home!

[Looking Glass]

9 hours ago, Kaname-kun said:

Your Satakentias have grown so fast! They look amazing. 

Thanks.  I’d say, they are pretty speedy so far.  But everything else I have is pretty slow.    They seem to average a new leaf about every 6 weeks or so.  The Teddy Bears and Roebelenii are my other fastish ones.  These are pretty happy in South Florida, especially with a lot of water.  They get mealy bugs sometimes, and leaf rolling caterpillars seem to love the soft leaflets, but otherwise do pretty well. 

7 hours ago, dalmatiansoap said:

Beautiful plants 😍!

Any experience with potted Satakentias? They are too sensitive for our climate but if they can be well grown in pots, i would looooove to give one a happy home!

They all came from pots.   I’ve hade this one from a 1 gallon outside.  It’s in the 7g pot one of the others came in, now.  They grow pretty fast here with a lot of water.   This one is stuck behind the brush in a neglected corner, so I forget about it sometimes and it dries out.  Still does ok.  About ready for the ground next year, if I can find a space.   At early ages they are pretty sun-sensitive, but seem do well in it as they age.  
 

 

[Johnny Palmseed]

I think it’s time to change the title to Satakentia Greatness. They truly look recovered and happy.

[sonoranfans]

A new leaf fell off one of my shade grown satakentias.  The color persists for maybe a week as it fades to brown but this is why I grow them in the shade, the color is reportedly better.   The leaves see direct sun now for 4 hrs or so but the crown shaft only sees early morning direct sun.  Mine still haven't reached the color of Ken Johnsons, not even close, but I continue to see color development of the crownshaft.

 

[Looking Glass]

Update on the broken spear frond that started the post.....    That spear originally broke off as it opened, leaving a "half frond" as a marker.   It has now been 13 months since that event, and the half-frond as completed it's cycle and should fall off in a few days.   It took about 13 months from spear to frond senescence.  Since that time, that Satakentia grew 10 additional mature fronds in full sun with a lot of water and regular fertilizer, and has a large spear about to pop.   Both Satakentias hold about 10-11 fronds most of the time, for me.   Currently, averaged over the past year, it has grown at a rate of 1 new fond every 5.2 weeks.

The rotted spear proved to be a great marker for recording the growth rate, but that is about to come to an end, so it's back to the eyeball method again...

 

 

These have grown pretty quickly into pretty large palms.   They now are playing nursemaid for a while, giving some shade to a dozen different bromeliads that I'm trying to multiply...  

   

Edited August 27, 2023 by Looking Glass

[Looking Glass]

22 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

A new leaf fell off one of my shade grown satakentias.  The color persists for maybe a week as it fades to brown but this is why I grow them in the shade, the color is reportedly better.   The leaves see direct sun now for 4 hrs or so but the crown shaft only sees early morning direct sun.  Mine still haven't reached the color of Ken Johnsons, not even close, but I continue to see color development of the crownshaft.

 

I was just updating this as you posted!   Your's looks great.  That color is awesome.  No doubt you get better color with some shade.  Mine get blasted with heavy sun into setting sun, and they stay a lighter green and the color leaves the crownshaft very quickly.   I originally wanted something very tropical looking, and very hurricane hardy near the house, but no coconuts!  I knew I could provide heavy irrigation in that spot up front also.  They look better in a bit of shade for sure, but mine squeaked by sun sensitive stage at 7 gallon sized.   They looked pretty terrible the 1st year, and I poured on the water critical-care style, to keep them alive through that time.  Of the very tropical looking, wavy-wavy palms I can grow, this and Neoveitchia storckii are my favorites and both are real stunners as they age.   I think Neoveitchia would likely fry to death in my sun-beaten yard though.  

Cuban and Caribbean palms, and the native palms of Florida, do best in my sandy soil and heavy sun, so I have been focusing on more of those lately.  There's only so much time and energy for critical care.  

I love your yard with the mature palms and shady spots....   Goals..   

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Looking Glass

[sonoranfans]

27 minutes ago, Looking Glass said:

I was just updating this as you posted!   Your's looks great.  That color is awesome.  No doubt you get better color with some shade.  Mine get blasted with heavy sun into setting sun, and they stay a lighter green and the color leaves the crownshaft very quickly.   I originally wanted something very tropical looking, and very hurricane hardy near the house, but no coconuts!  I knew I could provide heavy irrigation in that spot up front also.  They look better in a bit of shade for sure, but mine squeaked by sun sensitive stage at 7 gallon sized.   They looked pretty terrible the 1st year, and I poured on the water critical-care style, to keep them alive through that time.  Of the very tropical looking, wavy-wavy palms I can grow, this and Neoveitchia storckii are my favorites and both are real stunners as they age.   I think Neoveitchia would likely fry to death in my sun-beaten yard though.  

Cuban and Caribbean palms, and the native palms of Florida, do best in my sandy soil and heavy sun, so I have been focusing on more of those lately.  There's only so much time and energy for critical care.  

I love your yard with the mature palms and shady spots....   Goals..   

 

I think yours, planted together like that will shade each others crownshafts and you will have plenty of color.  Ken had 15-20 planted like that and the color was spectacular, fluorescent purple all over.  I would have tired a group planting except I knew they were a bit of a push here some years.  I have 2 with 5' trunk, the one in the open was burned on the horizontal leaves where frost could deposit, no newer leaf burn but 3 of the older ones were burned.  The one I pictured didnt get touched since it has plenty of bigger nearby canopy palms to hold heat down and prevent frost.  I have a second one about to drop a crownshaft and peaking through the leafbase split it looks even more purple.  Looking forward to seeing how yours grow in int he future!  These are easy care palms if you keep them wet and can take the cold in your area.

[Looking Glass]

It was windy today, and that took that frond off rather violently.    There’s a hint of purple, but not a ton.  
 

The last frond or two are always in a state of splitting off and peeling on the edge at this age.  

[Palmtreedude69]

What do they look like now I have one about the size of when you got yours abd I did not know that they grow that fast can we get an update on how they are doing?

[Looking Glass]

12 hours ago, Palmtreedude69 said:

What do they look like now I have one about the size of when you got yours abd I did not know that they grow that fast can we get an update on how they are doing?

I took this pic about a week ago.   We had a great wet season with about 114 inches of rain, but with the cooler winter temps and dry season spells, they have been slower over even our mild winter.  I think I got spoiled and with watering last year, so I’ll have to turn up the manual juice now as it heats up for spring.  
   

[Kaname-kun]

Wow have they grown. I remember when you got them as what--7 or 15 gals?--a few years ago. Great job!

[meridannight]

Very beautiful palms. I have no experience with Satakentias so far, but these are now going on my list of palms to grow. 

[Palmtreedude69]

5 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

I took this pic about a week ago.   We had a great wet season with about 114 inches of rain, but with the cooler winter temps and dry season spells, they have been slower over even our mild winter.  I think I got spoiled and with watering last year, so I’ll have to turn up the manual juice now as it heats up for spring.  
   

Wow they are ginormous I can't wait gor mine to do that size!

[Looking Glass]

21 hours ago, Kaname-kun said:

Wow have they grown. I remember when you got them as what--7 or 15 gals?--a few years ago. Great job!

They were 7g floppy beanpoles in Spring of 2021.....  And not overly pretty for the 1st year+.   

They moved relatively quickly though.  The yard is looking a lot different now.  

I really pushed them with fertilizer and water for a while, but I've gotten a bit lazy lately.  

 

April 2021...

May 2021...

August 2021...

Man, the front looked terrible that year before things started to get established. 

 

June 2022...

October 2023....

[Looking Glass]

The Satakentias always look a little tired after winter, and are currently getting a little beat up by our drought.   I’ve slowed down on the fertilizer and water, so they’ve slowed down a bit too, but still pretty fat for 4 years here.  There was another episode of spear sadness over winter, but it was way up there and out of reach and again, the palm pushed through it on its own.  Roots are now huge and travel up pretty far from the base into the lawn.  

May 2025…

 

 

[sonoranfans]

They look great and the color will keep getting better at that size.   These are faster growers that reported and are nicely hurricane resistant as mine show minor damage to oldest leaves after 110mph in milton 7 months ago.  In the warm up in our dry spring I water these both by hand and my irrigation timer.   I am surprised that the caliper of the trunk just below the crownshaft is 8-9" with ~ 7' .  clean trunk.  they are not fat like royals but they make my alexanders and C. oliviformis look thin.   I have never had spear rot on my satakentias but chambeyronias and copernicias have had a spear break off due to rot., though all have survived.

They do tend to look stressed in our dry spring.  We had our first accumulation of rain in a month today so I am ready to welcome the wet season and watch them color up.

 

 

 

 

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

They look great and the color will keep getting better at that size.   These are faster growers that reported and are nicely hurricane resistant as mine show minor damage to oldest leaves after 110mph in milton 7 months ago.  In the warm up in our dry spring I water these both by hand and my irrigation timer.   I am surprised that the caliper of the trunk just below the crownshaft is 8-9" with ~ 7' .  clean trunk.  they are not fat like royals but they make my alexanders and C. oliviformis look thin.   I have never had spear rot on my satakentias but chambeyronias and copernicias have had a spear break off due to rot., though all have survived.

They do tend to look stressed in our dry spring.  We had our first accumulation of rain in a month today so I am ready to welcome the wet season and watch them color up.

We got a little heavy rain just now too.   It’s badly needed.  I used to hand water these every 1-2 days when they were smaller, but they are pretty big now, and beyond what a few watering cans can do.   Now they just get hit with regular lawn irrigation 3x per week, and I drag out the hose every 5+ days or so and give them an extra deep soak. They are thirsty bastards, perhaps their only downside. 

They grew very fast here.  I’ve heard reports of their hurricaine tolerance, which partly is why I chose them also.   I suppose, someday I’ll see a flower spathe pop out.   This year seems to have a lot of the palms in the yard flowering, after 3-4 years in the ground.  

Im going to hit the entire lawn with palm fertilizer this week.   Palm roots are now everywhere, and it seems to fatten the grass up in areas of spillover from palm fertilizing, so I figure it will cheer up the grass where it’s beat up, while giving the palms more food.   

[sonoranfans]

yeah water widely those roots are pretty far from the trunk now.  I hand water round my yard with a hose and rainbird sprinkler, everything gets good and wet because I know the roots of some palms can be 20' from the trunk after 10 years.  Watering all the root areas will make them more wind resistant.

[D. Morrowii]

It seems like the long cool winter followed by all this dry was causing a little bit of de-lushing on this guy too. I stepped up watering a few weeks ago and it seems to have helped although it doesn’t look its absolute best. One of my favorites. 

[Looking Glass]

20 hours ago, D. Morrowii said:

It seems like the long cool winter followed by all this dry was causing a little bit of de-lushing on this guy too. I stepped up watering a few weeks ago and it seems to have helped although it doesn’t look its absolute best. One of my favorites. 

 

Looks like mine when it gets dry, hot and sunny.   Oldest couple of fronds get a bit pale.  When it’s crazy rainy, they perk back up.  Looks like yours is about 1.5-2 years behind mine.  Looked exactly the same at that size. 

[D. Morrowii]

16 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

Looks like yours is about 1.5-2 years behind mine.  Looked exactly the same at that size. 

I hope so, looking forward to it. Besides the one odd spear breakage I had a while back this one has been fun to grow.