Serenoa Recovery

[SeanK]

Writing from Atlanta.

Last summer I purchase a small S.repens from Woodlanders. They say these don't like clay. I planted into a mix of sand and small stone. Minimum temp last winter was above 20°F.  I gave no water between Oct 1st and Apr 1st.

Spear pulled as well as the 4 newest leaves.  I thought it would die but I see now 1-1/2 new spears. Do these get better, like Trachycarpus or will I see spear loss every winter.

[smithgn]

Short answer is no, you wont see spear loss every winter. But there's also a longer answer haha

A big question from me is, does your serenoa see full sun?

The fact that it's still small and getting established might play a part with its sensitivity but if yours is already suckering, this increases the survival rate. In one scenario you might have one or two stems that die but the plant will put out suckers elsewhere.

As for the spear pull, if it was a wet winter (which is pretty much every winter for us in the Southeast) it could have reacted adversely to it, which is normal. As for me, I have a gigantic serenoa and I think the fact that it sees full blazing sun all day, summer or winter, helps keep it dry and warm which is why I've had zero problem with it. I've had maybe a few small suckers have spear pull and not recover but the plant kept pushing new grow upwards. Again, I don't think you'll see spear loss every winter.  Give it time, let it get established and very year that goes by it'll become more durable and resilient. 

[floridaPalmMan]

Hmmm... those temps shouldn't have caused cold damage on a saw palmetto, but who knows? Like @smithgn said, it could have been a number of factors.

One possibility is that there is a bacterial infection at play (or at least was an infection).

For example, this year I fought a very strong and deadly case of bud rot and lost a few palms since I didn't know what the warning signs were.

The spears stopped growing on the effected palms, then over a period of time, the spears very slowly started turning brown while the older fronds all stayed green. The fact that the older fronds stayed green is why I thought everything was ok and that it was just a bad winter or "slow spring" for palm growth.

Boy was I wrong. I lost an 8 foot sabal, that I transplanted last year, a 4 foot sabal that was on the property when I purchased it, a 4 year old queen palm, and several potted trunking phoenix roebellinis. Eventually the spears simply pulled right out and you could smell a foul odor coming from the heart. The entire crown pulled right off of the 8 foot sabal and the heart was completely GONE. Rotted to the core and oh God the smell was so bad.

I'm currently fighting the bud rot battle with another 12 foot sabal that I also transplanted last year and I'll be very, very angry if I lose this one too. It was so much effort to dig those out and transplant them. I dug them out by hand and replanted them myself with a series of pulleys and ratchet straps. It was a lot of work!!!

But anyway, I got banrot fungicide  to fight the bud rot and it has worked on several palms that were infected. Within a couple weeks of treatment, new spears are appearing and things seem to be heading in the right direction.

I hope it was not a fungal infection for you, but if it was... I highly suggest banrot simply for preventative measures against these infections.

[JLM]

45 minutes ago, floridaPalmMan said:

Hmmm... those temps shouldn't have caused cold damage on a saw palmetto, but who knows? Like @smithgn said, it could have been a number of factors.

One possibility is that there is a bacterial infection at play (or at least was an infection).

For example, this year I fought a very strong and deadly case of bud rot and lost a few palms since I didn't know what the warning signs were.

The spears stopped growing on the effected palms, then over a period of time, the spears very slowly started turning brown while the older fronds all stayed green. The fact that the older fronds stayed green is why I thought everything was ok and that it was just a bad winter or "slow spring" for palm growth.

Boy was I wrong. I lost an 8 foot sabal, that I transplanted last year, a 4 foot sabal that was on the property when I purchased it, a 4 year old queen palm, and several potted trunking phoenix roebellinis. Eventually the spears simply pulled right out and you could smell a foul odor coming from the heart. The entire crown pulled right off of the 8 foot sabal and the heart was completely GONE. Rotted to the core and oh God the smell was so bad.

I'm currently fighting the bud rot battle with another 12 foot sabal that I also transplanted last year and I'll be very, very angry if I lose this one too. It was so much effort to dig those out and transplant them. I dug them out by hand and replanted them myself with a series of pulleys and ratchet straps. It was a lot of work!!!

But anyway, I got banrot fungicide  to fight the bud rot and it has worked on several palms that were infected. Within a couple weeks of treatment, new spears are appearing and things seem to be heading in the right direction.

I hope it was not a fungal infection for you, but if it was... I highly suggest banrot simply for preventative measures against these infections.

Man that is SCARY! Dont want anything to do with that. The palms you listed are dead, or did you use the banrot and new spears appeared?

[floridaPalmMan]

52 minutes ago, JLM said:

Man that is SCARY! Dont want anything to do with that. The palms you listed are dead, or did you use the banrot and new spears appeared?

Many infected died, but banrot saved over a dozen or so other palms that were clearly under attack from the fungus both potted and in ground. And I'm certain this would have kept spreading had I not intervened so banrot may have saved every palm on my property which at this point is roughly 20 trunking in ground palms, several purchased potted palms and a couple hundred seedlings and 1 year olds grown from seed. 

I lost:

• 1x Liv. Chinesis in a cluster of 4 (so at least there are 3 remaining)
• 2x potted p. roebellinie's
• 1x 4 year old queen (I was able to save the other with banrot)
• 1 silver saw trunk in a cluster of 3
• 3x trunked sabals (8 foot, 4 foot and one volunteer that had just began trunking) and will probably lose the 12 footer for a total of 4.

A 30' Washingtonia is being attacked right now. You can tell because the green fronds are all drooping but a green spear finally appeared a few weeks ago . The 12' sabal is being attacked since you can see the brown spear and its looking really bad. I still can't pull the spear out so thats a good sign.

I lost ALL of my 1 year old Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana seedlings (20+ seedlings) and 2/3's of my sabal palmetto seedlings (about 15-20 seedlings) in a span of two months this spring but I still don't know if that was from the bud rot or if I just suck at keeping those seedlings alive. It coincides with the timing of when the attack would have begun so I suspect the issues are related somehow.

I honestly can't believe the devastation. I became so demoralized at the losses I almost considered giving up palming as a hobby until my wife forced me to get off my butt and fix the problem. She said I wasn't allowed to quit simply because of how much money I've already dropped on the hobby haha. And she's right.

So to sum it up.. I highly recommend banrot as part of your normal palm maintenance as a preventative and a treatment.

It's expensive, but the alternative is losing thousands of dollars, morale and TIME SPENT

[SeanK]

11 hours ago, smithgn said:

Short answer is no, you wont see spear loss every winter. But there's also a longer answer haha

A big question from me is, does your serenoa see full sun?

The fact that it's still small and getting established might play a part with its sensitivity but if yours is already suckering, this increases the survival rate. In one scenario you might have one or two stems that die but the plant will put out suckers elsewhere.

As for the spear pull, if it was a wet winter (which is pretty much every winter for us in the Southeast) it could have reacted adversely to it, which is normal. As for me, I have a gigantic serenoa and I think the fact that it sees full blazing sun all day, summer or winter, helps keep it dry and warm which is why I've had zero problem with it. I've had maybe a few small suckers have spear pull and not recover but the plant kept pushing new grow upwards. Again, I don't think you'll see spear loss every winter.  Give it time, let it get established and very year that goes by it'll become more durable and resilient. 

It is under a large Holly. I will limb it up some to more sun (more in winter). How are the winters in Patras?

[smithgn]

1 hour ago, SeanK said:

It is under a large Holly. I will limb it up some to more sun (more in winter). How are the winters in Patras?

Good idea! It will help more than hurt, that’s for sure. The Serenoa I have is in Irmo; my parents live in the house and of course they’re taking care of the palms I sadly left behind. 
 

Unfortunately in Greece, yards aren’t really a thing for the majority of people. I live in an apartment and for me, It’s not the same growing palms in pots so I only have my intermittent trips back to the U.S. to get my palm fix. 
 

if you can, post some pics! We’d all love to see some of how you palm is doing. If not now maybe in the future once it recovers. 

[GregVirginia7]

On 7/14/2022 at 12:01 PM, floridaPalmMan said:

Many infected died, but banrot saved over a dozen or so other palms that were clearly under attack from the fungus both potted and in ground. And I'm certain this would have kept spreading had I not intervened so banrot may have saved every palm on my property which at this point is roughly 20 trunking in ground palms, several purchased potted palms and a couple hundred seedlings and 1 year olds grown from seed. 

I lost:

• 1x Liv. Chinesis in a cluster of 4 (so at least there are 3 remaining)
• 2x potted p. roebellinie's
• 1x 4 year old queen (I was able to save the other with banrot)
• 1 silver saw trunk in a cluster of 3
• 3x trunked sabals (8 foot, 4 foot and one volunteer that had just began trunking) and will probably lose the 12 footer for a total of 4.

A 30' Washingtonia is being attacked right now. You can tell because the green fronds are all drooping but a green spear finally appeared a few weeks ago . The 12' sabal is being attacked since you can see the brown spear and its looking really bad. I still can't pull the spear out so thats a good sign.

I lost ALL of my 1 year old Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana seedlings (20+ seedlings) and 2/3's of my sabal palmetto seedlings (about 15-20 seedlings) in a span of two months this spring but I still don't know if that was from the bud rot or if I just suck at keeping those seedlings alive. It coincides with the timing of when the attack would have begun so I suspect the issues are related somehow.

I honestly can't believe the devastation. I became so demoralized at the losses I almost considered giving up palming as a hobby until my wife forced me to get off my butt and fix the problem. She said I wasn't allowed to quit simply because of how much money I've already dropped on the hobby haha. And she's right.

So to sum it up.. I highly recommend banrot as part of your normal palm maintenance as a preventative and a treatment.

It's expensive, but the alternative is losing thousands of dollars, morale and TIME SPENT

Was your spring particularly wet? Just wondering about favorable conditions for such an infection that attacks everything…like a colder than normal winter and wetter than normal spring ruining the party for everyone…

[floridaPalmMan]

@GregVirginia7 No this spring was disappointingly dry just like last year.

What I think created the conditions was a bad day in late Jan this year where it dropped to 22 degrees with wind almost the whole night and a heavy frost. That froze and killed dozens of plants (bananas, elephant ears, etc...) in my yard and damaged the entire neighborhood.

I think thats where the fungus got its foothold, on all the rotting and dead plant tissue from the freeze. And because it was end of Jan, it started warming up right after, giving the fungus good enough conditions to spread and release spores.  The weakened and newly transplanted palms were prime targets.

The 8' sabal, 12' sabal, Liv. chinesis, and queens had been transplanted last summer and were all close in proximity.

The biggest problem is if it is Phytophthora palmivora, it will stay dormant in the soil long term, just waiting for another chance to come back and infect anything I plant there so I don't even know what to do at this point.

This turned a relaxing, stress reducing hobby into a nightmare. I just need to eliminate it before winter hits and hope for a better year in 2023

[GregVirginia7]

51 minutes ago, floridaPalmMan said:

@GregVirginia7 No this spring was disappointingly dry just like last year.

What I think created the conditions was a bad day in late Jan this year where it dropped to 22 degrees with wind almost the whole night and a heavy frost. That froze and killed dozens of plants (bananas, elephant ears, etc...) in my yard and damaged the entire neighborhood.

I think thats where the fungus got its foothold, on all the rotting and dead plant tissue from the freeze. And because it was end of Jan, it started warming up right after, giving the fungus good enough conditions to spread and release spores.  The weakened and newly transplanted palms were prime targets.

The 8' sabal, 12' sabal, Liv. chinesis, and queens had been transplanted last summer and were all close in proximity.

The biggest problem is if it is Phytophthora palmivora, it will stay dormant in the soil long term, just waiting for another chance to come back and infect anything I plant there so I don't even know what to do at this point.

This turned a relaxing, stress reducing hobby into a nightmare. I just need to eliminate it before winter hits and hope for a better year in 2023

I use a cooper fungicide on crowns in winter here and there depending on conditions but yours is far more pernicious…guess being watchful for similar weather conditions and using your banrot as a deterrent will help…I’d guess your zone is prone to this sort of problem but wishing you all the best at controlling it. I’ve been pretty fortunate here but every year I see segment damage once winter spears open up in the spring and a lot of it is fungal, despite my regimen. However, no spear pull for years so I’ll consider myself fortunate given some of the situations I read about here!

[smithgn]

I don’t want to hijack the thread but can you separate clumps of Saw Palmettos? We have one back in SC that’s getting huge but I’m back and forth between leaving just it as the huge thicket that it is.