Over-fertilization?

[NCFM]

If I were to apply both Palm Gain granular fertilizer and Southern Ag Palm Nutritional Spray at the same time, would I be running the risk of over-fertilizing my palms? I’m trying to figure out how best to treat one of my in ground chamaerops that has yellowing fronds, but I don’t want to overdo it and potentially harm my plant. 

[rprimbs]

I am curious too.  I have heard about fertilizer burn on palm trees from foliar feeds,  but not from granular fertilizer that is kept away from the trunk. 

 I've heard of fertilizer burn on palm trees with 'Spray-N-grow'. 

[JohnAndSancho]

3 hours ago, NCFM said:

If I were to apply both Palm Gain granular fertilizer and Southern Ag Palm Nutritional Spray at the same time, would I be running the risk of over-fertilizing my palms? I’m trying to figure out how best to treat one of my in ground chamaerops that has yellowing fronds, but I don’t want to overdo it and potentially harm my plant. 

Please wait for someone smarter than me to chime in lol 

 

Afaik Palmgain is slow-release, and I'm not familiar with Southern Ag - but it doesn't look like it's slow release. I _think_ you'll be ok. I use Carl Pool for my slow release, and supplement that with Jobes palm food (4-4-4) and have been adding diluted fish emulsion every other watering to my patio container ranch. So far everything is happy, but it's also 189 degrees and I'm watering the crap out of everything. Maybe start with a diluted mix of the spray and see how it goes?

[NCFM]

18 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Maybe start with a diluted mix of the spray and see how it goes?

I believe I’ll give that a shot. This particular palm is located at my Grandparents’ beach house which I usually only visit once a year, so this will likely be the only fertilizer it gets until next summer 

[NCFM]

Bump

[floridaPalmMan]

I've done this within 2-3 weeks.

Since palmgain suggests 4-6 weeks between applications, I waited a few weeks after an application to apply the Southern AG spray.

Not that I think it effected anything, but a banrot treatment followed another few weeks after those first two fertilizer applications.

Palms were both in ground and in pots. I just followed the recommended instructions for everything and all is well so the same will probably be true for you.

Warning though: This was only fine with the chilated spray + granular fertilizer combo. Two granular fertilizers was a much different story.

I over fertilized and killed a palm before when adding a slow release (twice a year) granular fertilizer with palmgain (monthly fast release). That was stupid and killed my palm in less than a week.

It changed from a vibrant, dark green to yellow almost overnight and quickly dried out and died a few days later despite my attempts to save it

[Billeb]

13 hours ago, floridaPalmMan said:

 

I over fertilized and killed a palm before when adding a slow release (twice a year) granular fertilizer with palmgain (monthly fast release). That was stupid and killed my palm in less than a week.

It changed from a vibrant, dark green to yellow almost overnight and quickly dried out and died a few days later despite my attempts to save it

This is shocking to me. Hard to believe that regimen would kill a plant.
 

I talked to the owner of BGI (PalmGain) about a different issue and the topic of application came up. She said it’s not uncommon at all for her clients to apply PalmGain more than the suggested rate as (don’t quote me here) 60% is slow release formulation and the other 40% is quick release. Or was it the other way around??!?! 

 

Either way, it seems applying PG more than suggested isn’t really too big of an issue. Adding in a slow release twice a year, doesn’t seem to out of the ordinary. I don’t know….seems fine to me anyway. Maybe they don’t react well together? Maybe it was something else? 
 

-dale

[floridaPalmMan]

39 minutes ago, Billeb said:

This is shocking to me. Hard to believe that regimen would kill a plant.
 

I talked to the owner of BGI (PalmGain) about a different issue and the topic of application came up. She said it’s not uncommon at all for her clients to apply PalmGain more than the suggested rate as (don’t quote me here) 60% is slow release formulation and the other 40% is quick release. Or was it the other way around??!?! 

 

Either way, it seems applying PG more than suggested isn’t really too big of an issue. Adding in a slow release twice a year, doesn’t seem to out of the ordinary. I don’t know….seems fine to me anyway. Maybe they don’t react well together? Maybe it was something else? 
 

-dale

Well I think the problem was that the "long release" fertilizer (I think it was Sunniland? But am unsure which one it was exactly) actually had some quick release nutrients as well which I was not aware of, I applied them at the exact same time rather than giving them an interval to dissolve, and probably overused both. I don't think it was specifically too much palmgain nor too much long release fertilizer granules but rather a fluke deadly combo that released too much something, too fast all at once and fried the roots.

So I don't know exactly where I screwed up or what the lethal combo was, only that it nuked my perfectly healthy palm and killed it within a few days. So now I simply wait a couple of weeks between applications of any fertilizer, slow/quick release or spray but I definitely still do all three methods throughout the year, just separated by a little time.

This only happened with two potted JuBu's (I was able to save the other) and it recovered shortly afterward. It's possible that I mis-measured for only those two pots. All I do know is they were $150 a piece and I wanted to punch myself over and over again for choosing expediency over caution ha.

[Merlyn]

On 7/10/2022 at 2:47 PM, NCFM said:

If I were to apply both Palm Gain granular fertilizer and Southern Ag Palm Nutritional Spray at the same time, would I be running the risk of over-fertilizing my palms? I’m trying to figure out how best to treat one of my in ground chamaerops that has yellowing fronds, but I don’t want to overdo it and potentially harm my plant. 

I don't think it would be a problem, since the Southern Ag Palm Nutritional Spray is more of a "micronutrient" kind of fertilizer.  The killer (as floridaPalmMan mentioned) is putting too much fast release fertilizer on at once.  That's generally a problem with only the "big three" NPK burning the roots.  The Southern Ag stuff is:

• 2.5% soluble Manganese (2% is Chelated)
• 1.5% Magnesium (1.5% water soluble and 1% chelated ??? )
• 1% soluble Iron (0.75% is chelated)
• 3.5% Sulfur

This is good as an additional micronutrient spray, but go light on it.  The concentration rates are very high by weight, so use sparingly and dilute it a lot!  I think their 1oz per tree is probably WAAAAY more than you'd want to use.  PalmGain should already have most of these micronutrients, so it might not be necessary at all.  I bought a bottle of the Southern Ag stuff about 3 years ago and only used it once...

[sonoranfans]

Some palms will benefit from foliar spray and some wont absorb anything.  The foliar will go onto the ground and into the root zone.  If you are going to fertilize 2x a year or less, controlled release is the only way to go.  Controlled release will slow as fertilizer enters the soil, as it is washed away, more will be release but always in inverse proportion to what is in the soil.  IF you are trying to fertilize 2x a year or less without controlled release, your palms have my sympathies.  Fertilizer persistence in soil depends on may things, cation exchange, drainage, rain, irrigation andf water solubility of  that particular nutrient.  Yes potassium with wash away faster than Mg and K, Mg will wash away faster than Mn, Cu, B etc.  If you cant fertilize often the best approach would be to use controlled release and plant palms that are not nutrient needy.  Queen palms, Cuban Copernicias are some of the most needy.  Chamaerops arent particularly needy, are you sure they arent over watered?  There has been a lot of rain lately, and chamaerops prefer a mediterranean climate, that is not much rain.  Overwatering can cause nutrient lockout and adding fertilizer will do nothing to solve the issue.   Nutrient lockout also occurs when palms/planmts are over fertilized.

[NCFM]

55 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

If you are going to fertilize 2x a year or less, controlled release is the only way to go.

Thanks for the tip. Is osmocote plus 8-9 month a good option for controlled release?

 

57 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

Chamaerops arent particularly needy, are you sure they arent over watered?

It is planted in pretty sandy, well-draining soil (house is located on a barrier island), so I don’t think that’s the issue. Most other chamaerops I saw in the same area appeared very healthy. I planted mine as a 3gal just last summer, so im wondering if part of the yellowing may just be from adjusting to its new home in full coastal sun? The newer growth does look a bit better.

[sonoranfans]

21 hours ago, NCFM said:

Thanks for the tip. Is osmocote plus 8-9 month a good option for controlled release?

 

It is planted in pretty sandy, well-draining soil (house is located on a barrier island), so I don’t think that’s the issue. Most other chamaerops I saw in the same area appeared very healthy. I planted mine as a 3gal just last summer, so im wondering if part of the yellowing may just be from adjusting to its new home in full coastal sun? The newer growth does look a bit better.

I would put some turface MVP around it top 2-3" of the root zone and mix it in (pure sand wont do either).

[joe_OC]

I have experienced my Burretiokentia (multiple species) palm fronds sagging when I over fertilize with PG.  The palm grows but the emerging spears lacks structural strength and flops.  It takes a full year for the palms to recover.  I will add that these are mature palms with over a foot of trunk.  

[Collectorpalms]

On 7/15/2022 at 3:05 PM, sonoranfans said:

Some palms will benefit from foliar spray and some wont absorb anything.  The foliar will go onto the ground and into the root zone.  If you are going to fertilize 2x a year or less, controlled release is the only way to go.  Controlled release will slow as fertilizer enters the soil, as it is washed away, more will be release but always in inverse proportion to what is in the soil.  IF you are trying to fertilize 2x a year or less without controlled release, your palms have my sympathies.  Fertilizer persistence in soil depends on may things, cation exchange, drainage, rain, irrigation andf water solubility of  that particular nutrient.  Yes potassium with wash away faster than Mg and K, Mg will wash away faster than Mn, Cu, B etc.  If you cant fertilize often the best approach would be to use controlled release and plant palms that are not nutrient needy.  Queen palms, Cuban Copernicias are some of the most needy.  Chamaerops arent particularly needy, are you sure they arent over watered?  There has been a lot of rain lately, and chamaerops prefer a mediterranean climate, that is not much rain.  Overwatering can cause nutrient lockout and adding fertilizer will do nothing to solve the issue.   Nutrient lockout also occurs when palms/planmts are over fertilized.

Overwatering can cause nutrient lockout and adding fertilizer will do nothing to solve the issue. ?

[sonoranfans]

1 hour ago, Collectorpalms said:

Overwatering can cause nutrient lockout and adding fertilizer will do nothing to solve the issue. ?

yes over watering can cause some nutrient lockout like Fe and its amplified if the water is hard or if the soils are calcerous.   Most likely some species do better than others.  Adding fertilizer will not solve that problem. 

[Collectorpalms]

3 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

yes over watering can cause some nutrient lockout like Fe and its amplified if the water is hard or if the soils are calcerous.   Most likely some species do better than others.  Adding fertilizer will not solve that problem. 

 

3 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

yes over watering can cause some nutrient lockout like Fe and its amplified if the water is hard or if the soils are calcerous.   Most likely some species do better than others.  Adding fertilizer will not solve that problem. 

I acidify the water to PH 5.8 and leach.