Help my Pindo

[JLM]

I moved my Pindo a couple months ago to prepare for the front yard project thing that we have been wanting to do since 2018. I had noticed that it was dropping fronds, not too quickly though. It still has several healthy looking fronds, but it just spear pulled. The end of the spear was black and molded. I really need to save this palm, especially since it wasnt cheap. What should i do? I am very dedicated to doing whatever needs to be done. Pictures will be added soon.

[JLM]

Below is a pic of the spear, the other pics are too big to upload here. Ill have to grab the tablet.

[JLM]

Lower quality images, but indeed they are images.

[Collectorpalms]

Banrot, Copper Fungicide, and maybe hydrogen peroxide.

 

Any suggestion is just a guess. Maybe it got bumped, or maybe it got a disease.  But I personally Never had a Butia with spear pull in the summer survive, but I didn't do anything other than try to keep the hole dry and cross my fingers. Cold damage from spear pull is different than what happened here.

[JLM]

  On 6/24/2022 at 1:53 AM, Collectorpalms said:

Banrot, Copper Fungicide, and maybe hydrogen peroxide.

 

Any suggestion is just a guess. Maybe it got bumped, or maybe it got a disease.  But I personally Never had a Butia with spear pull in the summer survive, but I didn't do anything other than try to keep the hole dry and cross my fingers. Cold damage from spear pull is different than what happened here.

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How do you recommend applying the copper fungicide? I have a copper fungicide spray, i would have to get banrot at lowes or something.

EDIT: Would i need to mix the fungicide with water?

Edited June 24, 2022 by JLM

[Collectorpalms]

  On 6/24/2022 at 2:18 AM, JLM said:

How do you recommend applying the copper fungicide? I have a copper fungicide spray, i would have to get banrot at lowes or something.

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I would alternate between hydrogen peroxide, drying it out and drenching the hole with the copper fungicide. If its a spray I assume its already mixed to the proper ratio. If it is still alive, then applying something to the roots would help it get absorbed into the plant. So maybe mix some of that to the root zone.

Banrot is very expensive,  probably cheaper to get a new Butia. $92 on Amazon. 5 gallon Butia at lowes locally is $89. But before I go crazy planting in ground butia and butia hybrids I should buy some ahead of time, since I have had it happen too many times. I think the last time a drunk girl drove/bumped her car into one, and it did the same thing as yours and died.

https://www.amazon.com/Scotts-Banrot-Spectrum-Fungicide-Wttable/dp/B008GEFRP0/ref=sr_1_1_mod_primary_new?crid=2HHVMQDAHJXDE&keywords=banrot&qid=1656037598&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=banrot%2Caps%2C213&sr=8-1

Edited June 24, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[JLM]

  On 6/24/2022 at 2:25 AM, Collectorpalms said:

I would alternate between hydrogen peroxide, drying it out and drenching the hole with the copper fungicide. If its a spray I assume its already mixed to the proper ratio. If it is still alive, then applying something to the roots would help it get absorbed into the plant. So maybe mix some of that to the root zone.

Banrot is very expensive,  probably cheaper to get a new Butia.

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Oh, like how expensive? This pindo costed almost $90 iirc

Ill alternate between the two, although im not sure how drying it out will go, the hole is pretty deep.

[Collectorpalms]

  On 6/24/2022 at 2:27 AM, JLM said:

Oh, like how expensive? This pindo costed almost $90 iirc

Ill alternate between the two, although im not sure how drying it out will go, the hole is pretty deep.

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I added the link above. Yea you need to suck it out with a vac. HP turns to water so sitting water in summer is bad.

[JLM]

  On 6/24/2022 at 2:31 AM, Collectorpalms said:

I added the link above. Yea you need to suck it out with a vac. HP turns to water so sitting water in summer is bad.

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Will use the vac, never actually though of that. Do i need to try to keep the sun from getting into the hole or would this actually be a good thing?

[96720]

I would agree with the hydrogen peroxide keep doing it and don’t give up to soon 

[D Palm]

@JLMI lost 1 out of 4 pindos a few years ago. Tried the hydrogen peroxide and fungicide treatments…was worried about it spreading to other. 6 months after the spear pull it shot out dead brown leaves…thought what the crap.

dumped systematic insecticide drench on dying pindo, some sort of Beatles came scrambling out. Systemic drenched my other 3 pindos as preventative.

Fast forward - I have 3 awesome looking pindos now and treat them annually. Try the insecticide drench before it’s too late. Something could be eating it.

[JLM]

  On 6/24/2022 at 4:14 AM, D Palm said:

@JLMI lost 1 out of 4 pindos a few years ago. Tried the hydrogen peroxide and fungicide treatments…was worried about it spreading to other. 6 months after the spear pull it shot out dead brown leaves…thought what the crap.

dumped systematic insecticide drench on dying pindo, some sort of Beatles came scrambling out. Systemic drenched my other 3 pindos as preventative.

Fast forward - I have 3 awesome looking pindos now and treat them annually. Try the insecticide drench before it’s too late. Something could be eating it.

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I dont know, it might be worth a try but considering i had dug it up and moved it, it seems likely that its experiencing severe shock. The spear was also black and molded, which leads me to believe shock as well.

[D Palm]

@JLM Could be! If your leaning that way I’d hit it with some fish emulsions (not in the crown) so the palm will expedite filling that void in the crown.

[JLM]

  On 6/24/2022 at 4:22 AM, D Palm said:

@JLM Could be! If your leaning that way I’d hit it with some fish emulsions (not in the crown) so the palm will expedite filling that void in the crown.

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Any particular brands that i need to look for? Ive never looked into doing anything like that before, so im basically clueless.

[BeyondTheGarden]

If you know that H2O2 turns to water, why use it?  Why not just stick with copper fungicide?  And cover it to keep the rain/irrigation off?  

[JLM]

Sprayed the fungicide in the hole about 20 minutes ago. We shall see what happens.

EDIT: I will probably find a small stick to put in the hole to keep track of growth.

Edited June 24, 2022 by JLM

[Merlyn]

I bought a big pack of Banrot 40WP for about $85, the 2lb bag is probably a  lifetime supply for me.  Since you transplanted it, I'd guess physical damage to the spear.  It is really easy to bump it or bend it too far, or otherwise damage the growing point.  Either way, it clearly has a fungal infection so copper, H2O2, Banrot, Alliette(Mancozeb), Daconil are all good options for a crown drench or a soil drench.  Halley Ferrel told me the best stuff he's used for crown infections and black leaf spotting after winter.  Imhaven't tried it myself, but bought a big bag of Aliette WDG this spring.  Another crown drench i read about here was aa mix of H2O2 and Daconil.  Instant surface fu gicide and residual Daconil sitting in the crown may help.

[D Palm]

Don’t use too much copper fungicide, it can cause copper poisoning. I never do it more than twice a year. Once before winter, and again in early March if needed.

[Scott W]

I had the same thing happen to one of my field grown blue Butia transplants earlier this year.  Noted first the newest spear turned brown then a few weeks later it pulled.   One application of peroxide (didn't measure just used all that was in the bottle) then a few days later a cup of fungicide.  Tried to keep the crown covered during rain events and talked to it every day.  Also gave it a good dose of Superthrive.

She finally started pushing new growth two weeks ago after about 6 months of nothing.  No other existing fronds ever died, thankfully.

This is the second Butia I've had do this.  The other was a small one gallon that when potted up did the same thing.  Followed the same routine as above and it's doing fine today.

 

[JLM]

I would have to try to keep this thing dry during one of the upcoming wettest weeks of the month, right? Like seriously come on, we have rain chances as high as 70%-80% all week.

Anyways, when i sucked out the water from todays storms, i ended up sucking the dead material out too by accident. This might be a good thing, i dont know. I have applied some H2O2.

[JLM]

I have not tracked growth over the past few days, but just in case i have sent an email to Moultrie Palms over in St Augustine. We'll see what happens.

[Scott W]

  On 6/27/2022 at 3:18 PM, JLM said:

I have not tracked growth over the past few days, but just in case i have sent an email to Moultrie Palms over in St Augustine. We'll see what happens.

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Odds are you may not see any growth for months.  

You mentioned Moultrie Palms, I didn't think Frank and Elaine sold Pindos, only mules and his super mule....is this a mule then???

 

[JLM]

  On 6/27/2022 at 8:18 PM, Scott W said:

Odds are you may not see any growth for months.  

You mentioned Moultrie Palms, I didn't think Frank and Elaine sold Pindos, only mules and his super mule....is this a mule then???

 

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The injured palm is a Pindo, however i want to get both a mule and a super mule. I currently have an open hole in the front yard for a new palm to go, so might as well get something for the hole and for just in case the Pindo doesnt make it.

Edit: It should be noted that ill still get another Pindo if this one doesnt make it.

Edited June 27, 2022 by JLM

[JLM]

So i didnt really know if i was just seeing things or not, but it seems like theres a lot more of the stick outside of the hole of the pindo now than there was when i first put it in. Well i decided to mark it with a sharpie yesterday between rain showers and it does appear that a little bit of growth has occurred **overnight**.

Ill mark the stick again around the same time later this afternoon if its not raining.

[JLM]

Ok its not raining, which means ive been able to get a better look at it. Unfortunately it has not moved at all today, and what "movement" i may have saw from overnight was likely just an illusion. 

We received about an inch of rain today, and we have rain chances as high as 80% through the weekend. This pindo will continue to live in a trash bag during storms.

[Merlyn]

If there is a tip of a spear sticking out that's a great sign, regardless of whether it's really moving or not.  I had a couple of Bottles that were 100% defoliated in January, two out of about 8 recovered with new stunted spears opening by the beginning of April.  I cut back the dead fronds to give them the best chance of recovery.  After 5 months of inactivity, one of them poked out a spear a couple of weeks ago.  It may still die, but the spear has been moving up irregularly a mm or so at a time.  With some nice other fronds on your Pindo, hopefully the spear will go into turbo mode soon!  Well..."turbo mode" being at least 1mm per day on a Pindo...

[JLM]

  On 7/1/2022 at 1:48 PM, Merlyn said:

If there is a tip of a spear sticking out that's a great sign, regardless of whether it's really moving or not.  I had a couple of Bottles that were 100% defoliated in January, two out of about 8 recovered with new stunted spears opening by the beginning of April.  I cut back the dead fronds to give them the best chance of recovery.  After 5 months of inactivity, one of them poked out a spear a couple of weeks ago.  It may still die, but the spear has been moving up irregularly a mm or so at a time.  With some nice other fronds on your Pindo, hopefully the spear will go into turbo mode soon!  Well..."turbo mode" being at least 1mm per day on a Pindo...

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Any spear is still several inches down into the palm. As said above, it will likely be a long time before i see any visible growth. Right now i have a stick in the hole to act as a spear. Ill give another dose of copper fungicide this afternoon followed by some peroxide.

I do have a question, it has gotten to the point where i cannot see down into the hole because of the fiber, what can i do to get rid of this? Just rip it out? I dont want to open up any new areas that it has to try to heal. Another question, itll be fertilizer time soon for the in ground palms, can i still fertilize or do i need to wait it out with this one?

[Merlyn]

I'd think fertilizing a pindo is ok a couple of months after a transplant.  I am not sure about the fibers, when they are on the outside I just rip them off or slice them off with scissors or a box knife.  But in the core I'd be tempted to leave it.  Like you said, you don't want to accidentally damage something if it's already struggling to push a new spear.

[JLM]

I dont know if it will make it at this point, i can push the stick in further now which tells me its rotting.

[JLM]

The innermost frond just pulled, seriously doubting this one's survival. Is it too far gone at this point?

[JLM]

I can get more copper fungicide in now that the hole is bigger. I havent given up yet, i just feel like im fighting a losing battle.

Edited July 8, 2022 by JLM

[Merlyn]

Another frond pull isn't a good sign, but not necessarily a sign of death.  One of my Bottles had a spear start to poke out, then it stopped, then it started looking nasty.  About a week later a totally new spear popped up next to it and opened up a tiny 8" long frond.  It is stunted but otherwise normal, a whole 6 months after defoliation and apparent rotting of the other spears and fronds.  Of course two others nearby are still dormant and might be D-E-D ded...

[JohnAndSancho]

  On 7/7/2022 at 12:58 AM, JLM said:

The innermost frond just pulled, seriously doubting this one's survival. Is it too far gone at this point?

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This is purely not scientific but put a Bluetooth speaker next to it and play Eye of the Tiger on repeat 

[JLM]

  On 7/8/2022 at 2:57 AM, JohnAndSancho said:

This is purely not scientific but put a Bluetooth speaker next to it and play Eye of the Tiger on repeat 

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Sounds like a brilliant idea! Where can i find those lol

[JohnAndSancho]

  On 7/8/2022 at 4:10 AM, JLM said:

Sounds like a brilliant idea! Where can i find those lol

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Can't hurt bro. My last 2 kentias ain't dead.

[JLM]

  On 7/8/2022 at 4:30 AM, JohnAndSancho said:

Can't hurt bro. My last 2 kentias ain't dead.

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I guess this applies here lol

https://pistilsnursery.com/blogs/journal/music-and-plant-growth-heres-what-the-science-says#:~:text=As we started digging in,promotes the growth of plants!

[JLM]

As far as i can tell, the bottom of the hole is black. Not a good sign. 

[JLM]

Approaching a month since spear pull now. Not sign of growth, bottom of the hole is black and now the leaflets are becoming pale and folding on the inner fronds. Pretty sure its done for, any thoughts @Merlyn?

[Merlyn]

Yeah, that seems like a bad sign.  If the rot is spreading from the spear to other successive fronds then it may not have a heart left.  That happened to a Pindo of mine that got hit by a falling tree.  But mine was really rapid and was physical damage and not rot.  However I just discovered a small Pindo in my yard with a brown spear, so I am probably going to end up dealing with the same rot problem you have.  It is part of a triple I planted last fall, which would really suck if it died.

[JLM]

  On 7/19/2022 at 1:56 AM, Merlyn said:

Yeah, that seems like a bad sign.  If the rot is spreading from the spear to other successive fronds then it may not have a heart left.  That happened to a Pindo of mine that got hit by a falling tree.  But mine was really rapid and was physical damage and not rot.  However I just discovered a small Pindo in my yard with a brown spear, so I am probably going to end up dealing with the same rot problem you have.  It is part of a triple I planted last fall, which would really suck if it died.

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Do you think trunk cutting would be an option to make a final attempt, or would that just destroy any chance that it still has?