Philodendron query

[BeyondTheGarden]

Any way to identify which type of Philodendron this is prior to it getting more character in the leaves? I believe selloum and xanadu both look like this when young?

[Silas_Sancona]

23 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

Any way to identify which type of Philodendron this is prior to it getting more character in the leaves? I believe selloum and xanadu both look like this when young?

Thaumatophyllum  ** Formally Philodendron **  selloum.  While they do look similar, leaves on Xanadu have a different look to them when placed side by side. 

Seen - and sold - more of these things than anyone should have to deal with in a lifetime, lol

[BeyondTheGarden]

That's actually the one I was hoping for.  

How root sensitive are these?  Would it be advisable to try to separate them?  

[Silas_Sancona]

26 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

That's actually the one I was hoping for.  

How root sensitive are these?  Would it be advisable to try to separate them?  

They're actually pretty tough and can be cut up like Taro or Alocasia..   I myself might let it grow a bit more before separating any offsets. Bigger offsets = Less risk of transplant shock / set back.  Each will continue producing new offsets after being separated / repotted once it settles in though.

If you decide do to cut it up now, just be sure you get a good clump of roots on each piece.  Looks like it should have a pretty healthy root mass. ..Have seen plenty of seemingly small 1gal specimens that had a ton of roots hiding in the pot..

No special soil necessary, ..See plenty of them growing in seemingly infertile, native soil full of rock, silty clay, and sand in California.  Grandparents rarely watered some big ones they had in a planting bed under their back patio. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Obviously we don't have these up here (except when the big box stores or wally world sell them).  But the pics I see online, they seem like they're usually solitary (if not in mass plantings).  That's the overall effect I want, singular plant with a trunk and massive leaves.  I tinkered with one, washed the soil all away, took a very long time.  Still had to end up busting roots, they were just meshed too thick.  Hopefully at least some, or one stalk, survives on each clump.  And if they both died I still have the other pot.  Upsized the pots while I was at it.  

It seems like they should grow better solitary, not competing for nutrients.  

Edited June 2, 2022 by Jesse PNW

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

Obviously we don't have these up here (except when the big box stores or wally world sell them).  But the pics I see online, they seem like they're usually solitary (if not in mass plantings).  That's the overall effect I want, singular plant with a trunk and massive leaves.  I tinkered with one, washed the soil all away, took a very long time.  Still had to end up busting roots, they were just meshed too thick.  Hopefully at least some, or one stalk, survives on each clump.  And if they both died I still have the other pot.  Upsized the pots while I was at it.  

It seems like they should grow better solitary, not competing for nutrients.  

Single - trunked specimens are a result of diligent pruning.. Left on their own, they become a mass of various sized trunks sprawling out from the center or climbing something nearby..

Here's an example of an older, multi trunked specimen ** Picture is from a thread discussion about these over on Agaveville ** 



Grew up seeing lots of similar sized specimens in yards in CA.  Grandparent's were topped / offsets chopped pretty regularly to keep them from getting massive.

[Xenon]

Looks like a dwarf cultivar, maybe 'Hope' or the even smaller 'Little Hope' commonly sold by the big boxes nowadays to the point that standard "large form" selloum/bipinnatifidum is becoming more difficult to find for sale in my area. The new varieties have shorter petioles and don't get anywhere near as big as the standard form. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Interesting.  Thank you. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Found in Home Depot, no species name.  I believe this looks like selloum? 

 

[John2468]

To me, it looks like the ‘Hope’ variety because the leaves seem to be “not as deeply divided like the normal selloum is”  type, or whatever you call it.😆

Edited January 13, 2024 by John2468

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

The only P. selloum for sale, on the east coast, I have seen in years are the tissue culture "Hope" variant. They are offered frequently. I think you would have to grow from seed to get the larger old and original plants unless you get a cutting from an old plant.. If grown up to a bigger size and then planted in ground and mulched heavily the below ground portions survive heavy cold and resprout in spring and grow large by summers end.  If above ground trunks are protected those will survive. I think they are hardy to below the bare ground freeze depth (1" or less here in a very cold winter outbreak and then that thaws over the day). They are pretty cold hardy into my coastal N.C. area. I would think the "Hope " type would be somewhat cold hardy too.

[Rivera]

Hard to determine a variety of an immature plant, as the leaves often become more deeply divided with age.

Can't speak to east coast offerings, but aren't these shipped out by the truckload from Florida regardless of what state they're headed to? 

I think HD here in California still brings in a lot of Florida grown plants, but I don't know this for a fact.

[Silas_Sancona]

17 hours ago, BeyondTheGarden said:

Found in Home Depot, no species name.  I believe this looks like selloum? 

 

 

12 hours ago, John2468 said:

To me, it looks like the ‘Hope’ variety because the leaves seem to be “not as deeply divided like the normal selloum is”  type, or whatever you call it.😆

Having grown / stocked both, side by side, at nurseries i'd worked at in CA. and FL, i'm leaning more traditional Selloum rather than Hope ..Though i would like to see a few more new,  " mature -er " leaves before settling on my gut. 

With Hope, even at a smaller size ..ones i'd see brought into the places i worked anyway,  from reputable growers, ..some we know of here.. leaves have far less " cuts " ..are more whole /  somewhat resembling Alocasia leaves, compared to regular Selloum in which, even at smaller sizes, leaves are more divided, like the ones pictured.. .

As for for trying to sort it out using internet pics? 🤣😂 = Absolute joke..  Just looking at what comes up when i " search it " about half the pictures labeled as Hope, are regular Selloum.  Pretty disappointing how many folks apparently can't tell the difference, imo,  lol.

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

1 hour ago, Rivera said:

Hard to determine a variety of an immature plant, as the leaves often become more deeply divided with age.

Can't speak to east coast offerings, but aren't these shipped out by the truckload from Florida regardless of what state they're headed to? 

I think HD here in California still brings in a lot of Florida grown plants, but I don't know this for a fact.

Agreed. It is hard to tell from an immature leaf.  Yes Florida does ship to probably every state and certainly into Canada. Their ornamental plant industry is huge. I used to have a nursery and frequently bought P. selloum in Florida. Can not say some of the old types selloum are not shipped out now but do know that I keep an eye out at nurseries and have only seen "Hope" type (or so the labels say) for several years now on my travels around the east. "Hope" is probably better for indoors but the older type would be larger and so more impressive outdoors I would think. If anyone knows where to get seed please post here.

[Rivera]

9 minutes ago, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

Agreed. It is hard to tell from an immature leaf.  Yes Florida does ship to probably every state and certainly into Canada. Their ornamental plant industry is huge. I used to have a nursery and frequently bought P. selloum in Florida. Can not say some of the old types selloum are not shipped out now but do know that I keep an eye out at nurseries and have only seen "Hope" type (or so the labels say) for several years now on my travels around the east. "Hope" is probably better for indoors but the older type would be larger and so more impressive outdoors I would think. If anyone knows where to get seed please post here.

Interesting to learn this, thanks Jeff.