Can Sabal Minor Grow in Gravel?

[JDH23]

Hello all,

I recently decided to plant my large Sabal minor in the ground this year, and I’ve ran into a bit of a dilemma. I live close to the St. Louis area on the Missouri side, and the soil in this area is a mixture of very rich clay and rocks due to close proximity to both the Missouri and Mississippi River and the area being sort of a transition between the Great Plains the rocky Ozark region. Knowing this, I decided to dig a little deeper than normal to get rid of as many rocks in the soil as possible and then backfill with some of the natural clay.  This was going relatively as planned, as many large rocks were removed, but just as I dug to the desired depth of the hole I noticed some white soil at the bottom. After a little inspection, it was very clear that I had dug to a layer of gravel. I have no idea how plants, nonetheless palms, grow in gravel as it is to my knowledge that gravel is well draining but lacks nutrients (though I could be wrong). It should be noted that the gravel is roughly 2 inches below where I was planning on backfilling, giving the sabal that much room to adjust, but I have no idea if the gravel will cause future growing issues, especially considering my marginal climate (6a/6b). So, has anyone had experience growing Sabal minor, or palms in general, in gravel and had success, or is this spot a “no go”?

 

[Allen]

First if you are in 6a especially you should consider planting this in a protected spot like on the south side of a structure (house).  In the open in 6a a S. minor may take some significant damage in winter.  The gravel is not ideal because the palm will try to grow it's subterranean trunk straight down but may turn or push up as it hits the gravel.  If you insist on this spot I'd try to dig down a foot more and replace that area with the topsoil type clay that is in the top of that hole.    In this spot in winter if it drops below 0F I'd cover with a pile of leaves in middle spear at minimum.

PS you're going to have a bloom there as well congrats!

 

see

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Allen

[Sammy]

Hey out of curiosity, did you buy this from “northeastohiopalms” it looks just like one I got from them. I ask because I noticed the flower stall coming up so wondering if mine will do the same. If you didn’t buy it from them ignore me but if you did, did you get the 3 or 7 gallon?

Edit: just saw your reply to my post lol.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Sammy
Already replied

[teddytn]

Wherever everyone’s getting these big potted minors from I'm jealous! Good score 

[JDH23]

3 hours ago, Allen said:

First if you are in 6a especially you should consider planting this in a protected spot like on the south side of a structure (house).  In the open in 6a a S. minor may take some significant damage in winter.  The gravel is not ideal because the palm will try to grow it's subterranean trunk straight down but may turn or push up as it hits the gravel.  If you insist on this spot I'd try to dig down a foot more and replace that area with the topsoil type clay that is in the top of that hole.    In this spot in winter if it drops below 0F I'd cover with a pile of leaves in middle spear at minimum.

PS you're going to have a bloom there as well congrats!

 

see

 

Unfortunately the soil against the foundation on the south side of our house has a higher concentration of gravel. In those areas, you can run into gravel less than 5 inches below the surface, which wouldn’t even be half the height of the current pot the plant is in. So, it’s easy to say I’ve got some things to consider. One spot has somewhat better soil at the cost of less protection, whereas the protected spots have less than ideal soil composition. In regards to the flower stalk, that I am excited about. I can only hope they develop properly and perhaps I’ll have some viable seed later in the year!

[JDH23]

1 hour ago, Sammy said:

Hey out of curiosity, did you buy this from “northeastohiopalms” it looks just like one I got from them. I ask because I noticed the flower stall coming up so wondering if mine will do the same. If you didn’t buy it from them ignore me but if you did, did you get the 3 or 7 gallon?

Edit: just saw your reply to my post lol.

Haha, I thought that something looked eerily similar. I purchased the 3 gallon, but some sellers might’ve tried to sell it as a 7 gallon just based on its size. As for your palm, it’s definitely the same size as mine but it’s crazy that it isn’t producing flower stalks yet. Like I mentioned before, I’d wager that within 1-2 years yours will produce flower stalks. I guess it just goes to show just how variable sabals can be on a plant to plant basis. 

[JDH23]

1 hour ago, teddytn said:

Wherever everyone’s getting these big potted minors from I'm jealous! Good score 

I purchased mine from Northeast Ohio Palms. I believe I paid $68 in total. They have their own website, but they sell on eBay and Etsy as well if I recall correctly. Very pleased with what I received, I would highly recommend that seller. 

[NOT A TA]

21 minutes ago, JDH23 said:

Unfortunately the soil against the foundation on the south side of our house has a higher concentration of gravel.

Depending on conditions a curtain drain may have been installed there.

[Sammy]

55 minutes ago, JDH23 said:

Haha, I thought that something looked eerily similar. I purchased the 3 gallon, but some sellers might’ve tried to sell it as a 7 gallon just based on its size. As for your palm, it’s definitely the same size as mine but it’s crazy that it isn’t producing flower stalks yet. Like I mentioned before, I’d wager that within 1-2 years yours will produce flower stalks. I guess it just goes to show just how variable sabals can be on a plant to plant basis. 

When I first got it I thought they sent me a seven gallon by mistake since it was so large. Mine has 5 full fronds and the 6th is pretty far along. I can also see 5 boots where they cut some off. Yours seems to have a lot more of the trunk showing compared to mine. Mine has a tiny bit of that showing on the right side of the plant in this picture but yours takes up a good amount of the pot. It’s definitely big enough to flower since I’ve seen pictures online of half this size flowering. I got it at the beginning of this month and maybe it’s just been too cold this spring, other than this weekend. Where I live it gets cold at night because I’m in a sheltered valley where all the cold air sinks to. For example a couple days ago the forecast low was 54 but my weather station went down to 46. And we managed to drop into the 50s every night this weekend despite the forecasts all in the low or mid 60s. 

[Alex Zone 5]

20 hours ago, teddytn said:

Wherever everyone’s getting these big potted minors from I'm jealous! Good score 

Totally jealous here also, nice purchase 

[teddytn]

21 hours ago, JDH23 said:

I purchased mine from Northeast Ohio Palms. I believe I paid $68 in total. They have their own website, but they sell on eBay and Etsy as well if I recall correctly. Very pleased with what I received, I would highly recommend that seller. 

I’ve seen them on Etsy before yeah, good to know they actually sell the palms they have in their pics!! Definitely worth it for palms like that

[Sabal King]

12 hours ago, teddytn said:

I’ve seen them on Etsy before yeah, good to know they actually sell the palms they have in their pics!! Definitely worth it for palms like that

If only someone else had Sabals like that for sure.. variety, and size..... with a consistent stream of available sabals lol

[JDH23]

Well, here’s an update that nobody asked for. In short, she’s planted! 
 

I took Allen’s advice and dug past the gravel, as for as I could go.  I dug just about an additional two feet in the hole (close to a 3 foot deep hole in total) removing gravel until I hit what seemed like concrete or the largest rock I’ve ever seen in the ground (though it was likely builder’s fill). I wanted to go a bit further, or until I reached clay soil again, but I had to make due with the situation. I then filled the hole up to my liking with some locally sourced soil that I completely forget I had piled up, watered it down to fill the pockets, and began the planting process. 
 

Let me tell you, this might’ve been the trickiest part. Essentially, what made this so tricky was the fact of how big the root ball was of the Sabal. I wish I would’ve gotten a picture of it, but there was nearly an entire layer of roots that were growing underneath the pot from the drainage holes. Considering how finicky sabals can be when messing/cutting their roots, I basically had to be a surgeon at this point making precise cuts to the pot to remove the plant without damaging it. As annoying as this was, I did remove all of the plastic where the roots were growing with as few casualties as possible. In the end, this is what the root ball looked like: 

 

 

 

After removing the plant from the pot, it was pretty smooth sailing. Overall, I’m happy with how it turned out, though I expect to clean up the area around it a bit and perhaps build the soil around the plant better . We’ll see what happens from this point forward, but hopefully it takes off this summer!

[teddytn]

@JDH23 looking good man! Definitely worth all the effort. That thing should take off after it gets settled. Water that thing twice as much as you think you should and it’ll love you for it