Hole size for 30” box

[Breaktheory]

Hi all…

I have really bad soil - it’s basically compacted clay and rocks - the only method for success has been digging holes twice the size of my pot.

This isn’t that tough with a 15G but we have a 30” box Royal coming - do I need to go a full 60” on this? We have a bobcat so it can be done but that’s a huge hole! 

Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[Tracy]

14 hours ago, Breaktheory said:

Hi all…

I have really bad soil - it’s basically compacted clay and rocks - the only method for success has been digging holes twice the size of my pot.

This isn’t that tough with a 15G but we have a 30” box Royal coming - do I need to go a full 60” on this? We have a bobcat so it can be done but that’s a huge hole! 

Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

If you have a bobcat there to do the labor, the question is why not go big?   Eventually you want the plant rooting into your native soil.  If you go big, dispose of part of the excess soil and use some to blend around the 48" box that you are placing without disturbing the roots and soil in the box.  I normally put the container (pot, box) in the hole and cut the pot or disassemble the box in the hole trying not to disturb the roots or any of the soil from the container.  If you use this method plan on needing a space to dispose of the excess dirt from the 48" box plus however much you will be using to blend in the space around the box.  Your plant's roots will have time to move into some of that blended soil and eventually into your native soil, but it should be pretty well established by the time it gets to the native nasty stuff.  After having only mediocre success rates in bad soil in my Carlsbad garden, I adopted this method a couple of decades ago and increased my success rate on survival.  My son's who were of helping age at the time hated it, because we were using manual labor, no bobcats.

[Billeb]

I’d go a little deeper than usual and mix the removed soil with a new well drained medium to fill the hole back up to the size of the crate. Remove the bottom of the crate and drop the plant in the hole as @Tracy suggested. Remove the sides of the crate in the hole and backfill the sides with the same mix you put in the bottom. Done. 

I’ve done way too many to think about. Manual digging of course. 

-dale

[Breaktheory]

5 hours ago, Tracy said:

If you have a bobcat there to do the labor, the question is why not go big?   Eventually you want the plant rooting into your native soil.  If you go big, dispose of part of the excess soil and use some to blend around the 48" box that you are placing without disturbing the roots and soil in the box.  I normally put the container (pot, box) in the hole and cut the pot or disassemble the box in the hole trying not to disturb the roots or any of the soil from the container.  If you use this method plan on needing a space to dispose of the excess dirt from the 48" box plus however much you will be using to blend in the space around the box.  Your plant's roots will have time to move into some of that blended soil and eventually into your native soil, but it should be pretty well established by the time it gets to the native nasty stuff.  After having only mediocre success rates in bad soil in my Carlsbad garden, I adopted this method a couple of decades ago and increased my success rate on survival.  My son's who were of helping age at the time hated it, because we were using manual labor, no bobcats.

Hey Tracy…no reason not to go bigger other than that this is going in my lawn and it’s that much more lawn to tear up - it’s actually a 30”box going into a 55” hole so that will be a lot of exposed dirt but Palm survival trumps all.

 

What I worked out with the crew is to do a 55” hole, put the crate in the middle then backfill with 50/50 native and kellog’s mix 

[Breaktheory]

4 hours ago, Billeb said:

I’d go a little deeper than usual and mix the removed soil with a new well drained medium to fill the hole back up to the size of the crate. Remove the bottom of the crate and drop the plant in the hole as @Tracy suggested. Remove the sides of the crate in the hole and backfill the sides with the same mix you put in the bottom. Done. 

I’ve done way too many to think about. Manual digging of course. 

-dale

How much deeper were you thinking? If they dig deeper then fill it back in, wouldn’t the weight of the tree sink the base of the trunk below the surface of the lawn?

[Billeb]

52 minutes ago, Breaktheory said:

How much deeper were you thinking? If they dig deeper then fill it back in, wouldn’t the weight of the tree sink the base of the trunk below the surface of the lawn?

If it was mine, I’d treat it the same as all the others. I definitely dig a little deeper and mix in different soil just so I have a native and well drained soil mix for the roots to penetrate. 

You are correct, if you dig deeper and add well drained soil to your native, there is a high possibility of compression once you put the tree in the hole but not a crazy amount. We’re not talking a foot or anything.  I try to compact the soil prior to throwing the tree in but it’s inevitable sometimes. Remember, many plants like it better planted high rather than low  

Measure 3 times and go for it. 
 

-dale

[Breaktheory]

1 hour ago, Billeb said:

If it was mine, I’d treat it the same as all the others. I definitely dig a little deeper and mix in different soil just so I have a native and well drained soil mix for the roots to penetrate. 

You are correct, if you dig deeper and add well drained soil to your native, there is a high possibility of compression once you put the tree in the hole but not a crazy amount. We’re not talking a foot or anything.  I try to compact the soil prior to throwing the tree in but it’s inevitable sometimes. Remember, many plants like it better planted high rather than low  

Measure 3 times and go for it. 
 

-dale

Got it - definitely seems wise to have an amended well draining layer under the palm itself and I think even a few inches would be helpful.

[Breaktheory]

@Billeb

on the subject of planting royals… - should I be adding any fertilizer during planting? The plan is just 50/50 kellog’s mix and native.

[Billeb]

21 hours ago, Breaktheory said:

34 minutes ago, Breaktheory said:

@Billeb

on the subject of planting royals… - should I be adding any fertilizer during planting? The plan is just 50/50 kellog’s mix and native.

I think the opinion of using fertilizer when planting is def open for discussion. Many will say not to fertilize for 3 months or so after planting (especially if it’s a small 1G or 3G). The same amount will say they put slow release either in the hole before planting or too dress it after planting. 
I personally don’t add fertilizer to the plant until my next time adding it to my entire garden. But I haven’t planted a box specimen in a long while. Hate digging those holes. 
 

-dale

[Breaktheory]

2 minutes ago, Billeb said:

I think the opinion of using fertilizer when planting is def open for discussion. Many will say not to fertilize for 3 months or so after planting (especially if it’s a small 1G or 3G). The same amount will say they put slow release either in the hole before planting or too dress it after planting. 
I personally don’t add fertilizer to the plant until my next time adding it to my entire garden. But I haven’t planted a box specimen in a long while. Hate digging those holes. 
 

-dale

Yah it’s a hassle getting this coordinated with guys to do it and I won’t be going through it again soon…

is it worth adding any additional growmulch type compost or other additives to the kellogg’s planting mix I’m using now?

[Mangosteen]

Dig up a large Royal or any palm for that matter. How much organic matter will you find down in the lower root ball area? ZERO. Don't put any compost, mulch, planter mix, etc. in the hole. If you need drainage (and you will) incorporate pure, all purpose sand into your native soil and use that as your "planter mix". Organic material is being composted by soil organisms who breath oxygen. Your palm tree roots need oxygen, but when the soil organisms use up the oxygen while working in the root ball area, the palm roots will suffocate and die.