The down side of owning a palmy jungle

[redant]

Anyone who has visited has got some idea of just how much work is involved in keeping the jungle somewhat tidy. Because I get just so many fronds I burn them to dispose of them, must have been millions over the 20 years I have been here. So picture 3 is my ash pile finally flattened out so I can start over again lol.  The pile is about a weeks worth of fronds during the high palm frond drop season (now), then the disposal.  As many have read, I'm reducing my population of royals as they are the largest offenders by far and I really need to be able to maintain my jungle.  Probably still have a good 60 or so royals. I'll continue reducing until I feel it's manageable.

Edited April 1, 2022 by redant

[sonoranfans]

About this time every year(frond drop) Im glad I only have 0.3 acre.   

[Looking Glass]

It’s all fun and games til those Royal fronds start to drop.  

Ever think about a wood chipper?  You could just make your own mulch.   

[Billeb]

“…..a good 60 Royals or so…”

im sure those words have come out of very few peoples mouths!!  Pretty insane…

 

-dale

[redant]

2 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

It’s all fun and games til those Royal fronds start to drop.  

Ever think about a wood chipper?  You could just make your own mulch.   

Unless you get a huge industrial chipper it will not work on fronds, the fiber just wraps around the blades instantly, I know from experience.

[redant]

1 hour ago, Billeb said:

“…..a good 60 Royals or so…”

im sure those words have come out of very few peoples mouths!!  Pretty insane…

 

-dale

[amh]

39 minutes ago, redant said:

Unless you get a huge industrial chipper it will not work on fronds, the fiber just wraps around the blades instantly, I know from experience.

The palms cause problems with industrial chippers as well. My county recycling center prohibits palms, but will accept hardwood with a diameter of under 36 inches.

The ashes should at least temporarily sweeten your soil.

[Tyrone]

Still better than mowing a lawn every weekend. If 3 or 4 times a year you have to bundle up some fronds and turn them into nutrient rich ash, that’s alright. Palms are far more controlled in leaf drop than other trees, like Eucalyptus. They drop constantly. 

Myself I have all of the above, lots of lawn, rainforest areas with palms, and Eucalyptus. The palms are the least labour intensive part of the landscape. 

[The Palm Nut]

My neighbors pretty much have all lawns, and when there out in the sun getting that perfect cut with the associated noise of it all, it's not for me. I have even had a couple of neighbors comment that if they had there time again they would create a garden like mine.  

All my garden waste stays in the garden. I have used my hammermill mulcher for 30 years, still running strong even though it was submerged in the flood of the century last year. But I have to agree not the best for mulching palm frons but can be done if small to medium size and totally dry.

I just lay my frons on the pathways and any open space to a foot or so deep and cover with leaf mulch. Its nice and spongy to walk on.

Bit untidy for some people but I never liked a formal prefect garden and all the work it takes, but I can certainly appreciate there work.

Plus I can go away for 6 months and it will look much the same as when I left a part from a few frons!    

[96720]

Jungles are the only way to go the city comes by 4 times a year and picks up green waste I put out a huge pile 4 times a year!!! 

[D Palm]

I use a 55 gallon drum to burn palm & yard debris. Heat is more concentrated. Would have been a nice bon fire!

[RyManUtah]

What’s the downside? I’d much rather do that than mow, and fertilizer grass to point of toxic algae for everyone else to deal with it . 
palms provide some shade. The benefit of grass is feeding livestock. 

[redant]

9 hours ago, D Palm said:

I use a 55 gallon drum to burn palm & yard debris. Heat is more concentrated. Would have been a nice bon fire!

I did that for a bit but my pile of fronds is just to much for it.

[redant]

12 hours ago, The Palm Nut said:

My neighbors pretty much have all lawns, and when there out in the sun getting that perfect cut with the associated noise of it all, it's not for me. I have even had a couple of neighbors comment that if they had there time again they would create a garden like mine.  

All my garden waste stays in the garden. I have used my hammermill mulcher for 30 years, still running strong even though it was submerged in the flood of the century last year. But I have to agree not the best for mulching palm frons but can be done if small to medium size and totally dry.

I just lay my frons on the pathways and any open space to a foot or so deep and cover with leaf mulch. Its nice and spongy to walk on.

Bit untidy for some people but I never liked a formal prefect garden and all the work it takes, but I can certainly appreciate there work.

Plus I can go away for 6 months and it will look much the same as when I left a part from a few frons!    

I did a bit of the frond pathways but I have a wife who really wants a bit cleaner look, have to compromise. 

[redant]

14 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Still better than mowing a lawn every weekend. If 3 or 4 times a year you have to bundle up some fronds and turn them into nutrient rich ash, that’s alright. Palms are far more controlled in leaf drop than other trees, like Eucalyptus. They drop constantly. 

Myself I have all of the above, lots of lawn, rainforest areas with palms, and Eucalyptus. The palms are the least labour intensive part of the landscape. 

My front and a bit of the back is a more normal grass and palm setting, the back a jungle. Pretty much it's just the royals that make it hard work, most of the other fronds are pretty easy to deal with. At one point I counted over 110 royals.

[redant]

35 minutes ago, RyManUtah said:

What’s the downside? I’d much rather do that than mow, and fertilizer grass to point of toxic algae for everyone else to deal with it . 
palms provide some shade. The benefit of grass is feeding livestock. 

Totally agree, plus my back backs up to a river, I never use fert back there unless a palm is screaming for help.

[sonoranfans]

If you dont grow palms here they and other invasives will invade anyway.  One of the nearby(in the back) 5 acre farmettes  rented a dozer to remove 2 acres of invasive phoenix sp plus brazillian pepper, vines etc.  Mixed in were sabal palmettos and some oaks that were in the process of being killed by the vines.  It was an impassible and hazardous thicket.  If you don't keep it up, a bird will fly in and drop some seed and before you know it, its a mess of invasives.  I just dont want to maintain any more land in the face of the invasives from weeds to brazillian pepper and various large heavily armed phoenix hybrids.  The big leaves that fall or need to be trimmed this time of year in my yard come from (2) mature royals, sabal causiarum, borassus AE, beccariophoenix alfredii, bismarckia, and some nasty to handle leaves like livistona saribus copernicias alba, baileyana, and fallaensis.  The royals are heaviest if they have green crownshafts but they dont cut or stab, the borassus is hardest to handle with its 8'+ long, heavy armed petioles and 12' across leaves.  Bismarckia drop 15+ leaves a year, at least 10 will come off in spring but no thorns just the sharp edges on petioles combine dwith their weight will cut you.  Trunking C. Baileyana has nasty sharp thorns and C. fallensis is also deceptively hazardous, small but sharp thorns plus heavy petioles means they can cut when you handle them.  Copernicia alba has some nasty thorns as does livistona saribus, they look like like medieval weapons.  At least saribus doesnt drop so many leaves(5-7) as C. alba which drops over 20.  10 years ago when things were small, I used to say "no problem, how much work could it be, its worth it".   Lets see how y'all feel when those big or big and armed palms are 20'+ tall dropping 12-20 leaves each per year.  Today I appreciate the easier palm leaves to trim or drag, chambeyronia, archontophoenix, satakentia, dypsis pembana.

[Mike Evans]

I feel your pain @Redant.  I originally planted 80+ royals and have been whacking a few down every year, since then.  I burn a lot of leaf litter around here, but it is illegal to burn in our County.   Just have to be careful.  I cut all the fallen palmate leaf litter from the petiole and use as weed block.  I use the 2X a week leaf litter roundup as my exercise now.  I also have been wacking all the foxtails I planted 22 years ago, because of the 1000's of seed that have been sprouting everywhere.  They are a difficult weed to get rid of.  I remember when John Demott (Redland Nursery) had barrels of foxtail seed sitting around and I asked him WTH?  He stated he dries them until non-viable and sells as orchid medium.  Good idea.

[amh]

I live east of the Rockies and west of the Mississippi, so any grass(with a few exceptions), is better than no grass. I love forest and jungles and have learned to just compost everything that falls or that I trim. Get some chickens; the high nitrogen content in their waste along with the soldier flies they attract with break down your jungle debris into compost in a very short time. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by amh

[redant]

On 4/2/2022 at 3:10 PM, Mike Evans said:

I feel your pain @Redant.  I originally planted 80+ royals and have been whacking a few down every year, since then.  I burn a lot of leaf litter around here, but it is illegal to burn in our County.   Just have to be careful.  I cut all the fallen palmate leaf litter from the petiole and use as weed block.  I use the 2X a week leaf litter roundup as my exercise now.  I also have been wacking all the foxtails I planted 22 years ago, because of the 1000's of seed that have been sprouting everywhere.  They are a difficult weed to get rid of.  I remember when John Demott (Redland Nursery) had barrels of foxtail seed sitting around and I asked him WTH?  He stated he dries them until non-viable and sells as orchid medium.  Good idea.

When foxtails where a new introduction in FL I had read somewhere where OZ was banning the export of seeds, Hey OZ, I'll send you a couple hundred thousand a year lol.

[aztropic]

1 hour ago, redant said:

When foxtails where a new introduction in FL I had read somewhere where OZ was banning the export of seeds, Hey OZ, I'll send you a couple hundred thousand a year lol.

Yep. In the mid 90's,foxtail seeds wholesaled for $5 a piece. Now,nobody can even give them away... 

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[JohnAndSancho]

8 hours ago, aztropic said:

Yep. In the mid 90's,foxtail seeds wholesaled for $5 a piece. Now,nobody can even give them away... 

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

If anybody is giving some away I'll take a chance 

[WaianaeCrider]

On 4/1/2022 at 8:27 AM, Looking Glass said:

It’s all fun and games til those Royal fronds start to drop.  

Ever think about a wood chipper?  You could just make your own mulch.   

Palm waste is to fiberous for most home chippers.

[Looking Glass]

5 minutes ago, WaianaeCrider said:

Palm waste is to fiberous for most home chippers.

So much for my master plan in the future….

[WaianaeCrider]

On 4/1/2022 at 6:48 AM, redant said:

Anyone who has visited has got some idea of just how much work is involved in keeping the jungle somewhat tidy. Because I get just so many fronds I burn them to dispose of them, must have been millions over the 20 years I have been here. So picture 3 is my ash pile finally flattened out so I can start over again lol.  The pile is about a weeks worth of fronds during the high palm frond drop season (now), then the disposal.  As many have read, I'm reducing my population of royals as they are the largest offenders by far and I really need to be able to maintain my jungle.  Probably still have a good 60 or so royals. I'll continue reducing until I feel it's manageable.

 

 

I have 2 acres and as I've mentioned before not one sq in of lawn grass.  Many of my palms are pushing the 20 year old mark, a few older and I can get a truck load close to that size just about every month.  That's a full sized F-150 load.  Just took one this past Monday.  We can't burn here on O`ahu so it's off to the dump once a month or so.

[The Palm Nut]

2 hours ago, WaianaeCrider said:

I have 2 acres and as I've mentioned before not one sq in of lawn grass.  Many of my palms are pushing the 20 year old mark, a few older and I can get a truck load close to that size just about every month.  That's a full sized F-150 load.  Just took one this past Monday.  We can't burn here on O`ahu so it's off to the dump once a month or so.

Does the dump charge a fee for the service?

[WaianaeCrider]

27 minutes ago, The Palm Nut said:

Does the dump charge a fee for the service?

No, not for personal dumping.  It's sort of what they call here a "convenience center".  There as a U shaped area w/ramps on both sides to drive on.  What we call "roll off" containers are along the ramp.  We have to one by one or in small arm fulls empty the truck.  So I get to once carry them to staging area, once to load my truck and once to empty it.  But it's free and only a 5 mile round trip.

[WaianaeCrider]

5 minutes ago, WaianaeCrider said:

No, not for personal dumping.  It's sort of what they call here a "convenience center".  There as a U shaped area w/ramps on both sides to drive on.  What we call "roll off" containers are along the ramp.  We have to one by one or in small arm fulls empty the truck.  So I get to once carry them to staging area, once to load my truck and once to empty it.  But it's free and only a 5 mile round trip.

 

[KDubU]

On 4/1/2022 at 9:56 PM, The Palm Nut said:

My neighbors pretty much have all lawns, and when there out in the sun getting that perfect cut with the associated noise of it all, it's not for me. I have even had a couple of neighbors comment that if they had there time again they would create a garden like mine.  

All my garden waste stays in the garden. I have used my hammermill mulcher for 30 years, still running strong even though it was submerged in the flood of the century last year. But I have to agree not the best for mulching palm frons but can be done if small to medium size and totally dry.

I just lay my frons on the pathways and any open space to a foot or so deep and cover with leaf mulch. Its nice and spongy to walk on.

Bit untidy for some people but I never liked a formal prefect garden and all the work it takes, but I can certainly appreciate there work.

Plus I can go away for 6 months and it will look much the same as when I left a part from a few frons!    

I like this idea!

[The Palm Nut]

16 hours ago, WaianaeCrider said:

 

You are fortunate having a free dump, in Port it costs depending on weight and can get quite expensive. We do have a small green bin which we can put out on the roadside once a week for collection and people with a small garden as most people have these days, it fine.  People with large gardens are becoming rare in towns and cities due to costs and maintenance, unless you have one like mine of course. Space is at a premium and people like big houses and have no time for a garden, these are the times we live in I guess.

Your garden is look good!  

[WaianaeCrider]

5 hours ago, The Palm Nut said:

You are fortunate having a free dump, in Port it costs depending on weight and can get quite expensive. We do have a small green bin which we can put out on the roadside once a week for collection and people with a small garden as most people have these days, it fine.  People with large gardens are becoming rare in towns and cities due to costs and maintenance, unless you have one like mine of course. Space is at a premium and people like big houses and have no time for a garden, these are the times we live in I guess.

Your garden is look good!  

We have the green waste containers as well.  Pickup every other week.  W/my 2 acres I could get a few more, BUT it's to much work to cut stuff to fit in them.  So off to the dump I go.  LOL  We are in an ag area of sorts.  Lots of small farms in the upper valley but choke houses the closer you get to the ocean.

 

[deezpalms]

On the bright side of things, as we all create our palm gardens from small to gigantic we are doing our part for species conservation and replenishing the jungle that keeps disappearing every second across the globe. Let’s all keep planting and doing this crazy palm thing that we all love!!

Edited April 7, 2022 by deezpalms

[BigFrond]

Burning is a no no in ca, especially in suburban areas.  Royal leaf litter is extra hard.  It is way tougher than the king palm frond.  I always cut and chopped down the dead fronds and the royal ones are extra tough when dried out.  I cannot imagine a whole forrest of them.

[redant]

36 minutes ago, BigFrond said:

Burning is a no no in ca, especially in suburban areas.  Royal leaf litter is extra hard.  It is way tougher than the king palm frond.  I always cut and chopped down the dead fronds and the royal ones are extra tough when dried out.  I cannot imagine a whole forrest of them.

Fortunately in the area I'm in burning is ok for now.  This area because of it location on my property is perpetually wet, the royals love it. I never fear of the fire spreading. I don't light up on really windy days or if we are in a real drought, which is rare.

[Visgoth]

On 4/1/2022 at 9:56 PM, The Palm Nut said:

My neighbors pretty much have all lawns, and when there out in the sun getting that perfect cut with the associated noise of it all, it's not for me. I have even had a couple of neighbors comment that if they had there time again they would create a garden like mine.  

All my garden waste stays in the garden. I have used my hammermill mulcher for 30 years, still running strong even though it was submerged in the flood of the century last year. But I have to agree not the best for mulching palm frons but can be done if small to medium size and totally dry.

I just lay my frons on the pathways and any open space to a foot or so deep and cover with leaf mulch. Its nice and spongy to walk on.

Bit untidy for some people but I never liked a formal prefect garden and all the work it takes, but I can certainly appreciate there work.

Plus I can go away for 6 months and it will look much the same as when I left a part from a few frons!    

What is that leafy vine growing on the center palm?

[The Palm Nut]

There is the Epipremnum aureum (devil ivy), and Philodendron species.