Planting in clay using only Perlite

[Breaktheory]

Hello all
 

Total beginner here… I have rocky clay soil although it is surprisingly well draining.

The most common advice seems to be to dig a hole 1.5 x the width and 1.5 x the depth of the pot, mix 50/50 native and amendment then bottom fill as well as back fill with amended soil.

A good grower suggested to me that because of my clay soil, I should dig a hole double the width of the the pot but only a few inches deeper and backfill with a 50/50 mix of native soil and only perlite.

Is anyone with clay using this perlite only technique successfully?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Joe NC]

I have sections of yard with poorly draining clay soil covered with a thin amount of great topsoil.  

Before I knew better.... I tried to "improve drainage" by digging giant holes and backfilling with amended or replaced soil.  This did not work as planned.  The surrounding soil is still poor draining, and I just created a pocket of good draining soil in a well in the heavy soil that collected water.  Essentially I made a bog. 

The best (only?) way I found to make better draining areas is to mound good draining soil on top of the clay, and plant into this mound.  This lets the plant root into the thin layer of topsoil I have.  The larger the potted plant, the harder this approach becomes.

[Chester B]

I agree, you'll just be creating a spot for the water to sit in.  Either till up a large section and add in amendments or mound plant and improve drainage from the top down over the years.

[amh]

If the soil is already well draining, just add a little organic material when planting.

Don't fix things that are not broke.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 3/24/2022 at 5:48 PM, Breaktheory said:

Hello all
 

Total beginner here… I have rocky clay soil although it is surprisingly well draining.

The most common advice seems to be to dig a hole 1.5 x the width and 1.5 x the depth of the pot, mix 50/50 native and amendment then bottom fill as well as back fill with amended soil.

A good grower suggested to me that because of my clay soil, I should dig a hole double the width of the the pot but only a few inches deeper and backfill with a 50/50 mix of native soil and only perlite.

Is anyone with clay using this perlite only technique successfully?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Expand  

Wouldn't use Perlite.. which will slowly ( but surely ) rise up out of the soil mix leaving decomposing muck in the bottom of the hole.. 

 If you're going to add anything, would recommend something like the following instead:  Pumice, Turface MVP ( Is calcined Clay, which won't compact / break down easily ) and stuff like grit / Chet ( look that one up ) you can collect from washes, or have delivered from a place that sells rock..

All that said, if you have plenty of rock / grit / sand in your soil out there, and it drains well ..you might not really need to add anything else to help it drain more. You might actually add in some compost when you plant + some native soil / gritty stuff.. to help retain some moisture around the roots while the plants get established.. Stay away from Peat Moss, esp if your native soil contains stuff like decomposed Limestone / other Limestone - like Marine - derived sediments.

[Billeb]

Agreed. I wouldn’t use Perlite either. Pumice is more recommenced because it doesn’t turn to a soggy mush like @Silas_Sancona noted. 
 

I feel like my soil was not well drained either. Although I’m not sure if it’s a large makeup of clay, I do know I had troubles with drainage and puddling. What I have been doing is digging a whole 1.5-2X deeper than the pot and backfilling with a well drained mixture in a layering fashion. Basically mixing less and less native soil into the whole as I get closer to the surface. I use pumice, MVP, small orchid bark and good old Kellogg cactus mix. Plants seem to be thriving. 
 

Good luck. 
 

-dale

[Breaktheory]

  On 3/24/2022 at 7:43 PM, Billeb said:

Agreed. I wouldn’t use Perlite either. Pumice is more recommenced because it doesn’t turn to a soggy mush like @Silas_Sancona noted. 
 

I feel like my soil was not well drained either. Although I’m not sure if it’s a large makeup of clay, I do know I had troubles with drainage and puddling. What I have been doing is digging a whole 1.5-2X deeper than the pot and backfilling with a well drained mixture in a layering fashion. Basically mixing less and less native soil into the whole as I get closer to the surface. I use pumice, MVP, small orchid bark and good old Kellogg cactus mix. Plants seem to be thriving. 
 

Good luck. 
 

-dale

Expand  

Just to define well draining for me - I have a 15 gallon size hole right now, if I fill it completely the water is totally gone in about 6 hours.

if I drill a baseball size hole 12” deep that hole empties within a half hour - so that’s basically what I’m calling well draining.

 

Just to simplify things, if I skip the perlite and add only Kellogg mix to native soil how would I do? 

[Breaktheory]

@Silas_Sancona

 

thanks for the tips…as far as hole width, how wide do you typically go? Yes the soil seems decently well draining but it’s so thick that I would think roots would have a hard time expanding to the sides.

[deezpalms]

The more you adjust your planting mix you slow down acclimation. In my garden I have a mixture of clay and silt with more clay than silt. I haven’t and don’t adjust my mix. I dig my hole and put the palm in the ground with just the soil around the roots and in the pot. After that it’s just native soil on top and bark covers that. Ten minutes of drip and everyone’s happy!

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 3/28/2022 at 3:52 PM, Breaktheory said:

@Silas_Sancona

 

thanks for the tips…as far as hole width, how wide do you typically go? Yes the soil seems decently well draining but it’s so thick that I would think roots would have a hard time expanding to the sides.

Expand  

1 to 1 1/2 X's the size of the root ball is usually good.. So say, for instance you're planning on planting something in a 15Gal.. I'd  make the hole about 3 - 5" wider ( Have gone bigger.. say 7-8" as well on some things in the past ) and maybe 8-10" deeper than the bottom of the pot..  That gives the roots some space to venture out and start working into the native soil..

If you look at what is growing in the soil as - is you'll see whatever you plant shouldn't have too hard of a time anchoring itself into the native soil as it grows into it.. Roots are pretty good at drilling through pretty tough stuff..  That said, when you dig the hole, always best to fill it up w/ water before planting that way the sides will be softer and moist from the start..

While fully guilty of not always doing it myself when planting, running the hose through the soil ..as you're back filling it after planting is also recommended. Helps the soil settle correctly / eliminates any air pockets beneath the root ball itself you cant see

Been awhile, but @MattyB Had shared an excellent technique of planting in " bowls "( maybe not the exact term he'd used )  ..IE:  planting out Palms / etc slightly below the grade of your yard, rather than at the same level.. Helped w/ water collection, and keeping mulch / any accumulation of organic stuff that settled in the depression around the base of the palms.. Seemed to work wonders for him..

[Merlyn]

I just discovered recently that Turface MVP is designed to hold a LOT of water.  I thought it was more of an aerating material, but it's extremely porous and absorptive.

"Turface boasts 74% internal porosity and can absorb its weight in water. When Turface particles are exposed to water, the moisture is absorbed into the internal storage sites. So when it rains, excess water is sucked away from the infield clay and absorbed inside the Turface particle, helping to eliminate rainouts."

I had been using Turface MVP as an additive to pots with agaves and cacti, thinking that it would help keep the soil dry.  In reality it was retaining more moisture than my previous topsoil/gravel/perlite mix.  A bonsai Youtuber did a comparison of different organic/inorganics here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt_a7g6C2Ls&ab_channel=AppalachianBonsai

And they found the following:

 

Organic Rankings:

1. Coconut Coir: 129g @ 14.57% loss
2. Compost: 26g @ 31.58% loss
3. Pine Bark: 22g @ 33.33%
4. Commercial Peat Moss: 6g @ 40% loss

Inorganic Rankings:

1. Diatomaceous Earth: 37g @ 30.19% loss
2. Akadama: 22g @ 26.67% loss
3. Kanuma Pumice: 22g @ 29.03% loss
4. LECA (Turface): 30g @ 36.17% loss
5. Vermiculite: 28g @ 41.67% loss
6. Perlite: 14g @ 36.36% loss
7. Sand: 12g @ 67.56% loss
8. Lava Rock (Scoria): 4g @ 76.47% loss
9. Expanded Shale: 2g @ 84.62% loss
10. Granite Chips: 1g @ 94.44% loss

In the OP's case Turface might be a good choice to absorb water and prevent muckiness.  We all know that coarse sand is kinda bad due to compaction over time.  But I was very surprised to see that lava rock (NOT pumice) was very non-absorptive and similar to expanded shale.  But Turface, Perlite, Vermiculite and Pumice are all super-absorptive.

I'm not sure if this does or doesn't affect recommendations for the OP, this is more of an FYI because I wasn't aware of how much water Turface absorbs and retains.

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 3/28/2022 at 5:24 PM, Merlyn said:

I just discovered recently that Turface MVP is designed to hold a LOT of water.  I thought it was more of an aerating material, but it's extremely porous and absorptive.

"Turface boasts 74% internal porosity and can absorb its weight in water. When Turface particles are exposed to water, the moisture is absorbed into the internal storage sites. So when it rains, excess water is sucked away from the infield clay and absorbed inside the Turface particle, helping to eliminate rainouts."

I had been using Turface MVP as an additive to pots with agaves and cacti, thinking that it would help keep the soil dry.  In reality it was retaining more moisture than my previous topsoil/gravel/perlite mix.  A bonsai Youtuber did a comparison of different organic/inorganics here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt_a7g6C2Ls&ab_channel=AppalachianBonsai

And they found the following:

 

Organic Rankings:

1. Coconut Coir: 129g @ 14.57% loss
2. Compost: 26g @ 31.58% loss
3. Pine Bark: 22g @ 33.33%
4. Commercial Peat Moss: 6g @ 40% loss

Inorganic Rankings:

1. Diatomaceous Earth: 37g @ 30.19% loss
2. Akadama: 22g @ 26.67% loss
3. Kanuma Pumice: 22g @ 29.03% loss
4. LECA (Turface): 30g @ 36.17% loss
5. Vermiculite: 28g @ 41.67% loss
6. Perlite: 14g @ 36.36% loss
7. Sand: 12g @ 67.56% loss
8. Lava Rock (Scoria): 4g @ 76.47% loss
9. Expanded Shale: 2g @ 84.62% loss
10. Granite Chips: 1g @ 94.44% loss

In the OP's case Turface might be a good choice to absorb water and prevent muckiness.  We all know that coarse sand is kinda bad due to compaction over time.  But I was very surprised to see that lava rock (NOT pumice) was very non-absorptive and similar to expanded shale.  But Turface, Perlite, Vermiculite and Pumice are all super-absorptive.

I'm not sure if this does or doesn't affect recommendations for the OP, this is more of an FYI because I wasn't aware of how much water Turface absorbs and retains.

Expand  

Keep in mind the OP is in California, not Florida.. or where ever the youtubber is. Doesn't rain even a quarter as much out here as anywhere back east ..yes, Turface " grains " will absorb and gradually release moisture, but doesn't stay " waterlogged " ( unless you're watering wayyy too much ), and allows lots of oxygen to circulate through the soil as well.. Moisture sensitive cacti / some other stuff i have would be decimated if it stayed wet.. While some grades of it are less porous than Pumice,  Lava rock will also absorb and gradually release moisture, just like Pumice ( Both are Volcanic )

Regardless, results i have seen over the last several years, both among stuff in containers, and where i have mixed Turface ..and / or  Pumice, ..and grit in planting holes speak for themselves..  No Youtube opinion required

 

[Merlyn]

  On 3/28/2022 at 6:04 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Keep in mind the OP is in California, not Florida.. or where ever the youtubber is. Doesn't rain even a quarter as much out here as anywhere back east ..yes, Turface " grains " will absorb and gradually release moisture, but doesn't stay " waterlogged " ( unless you're watering wayyy too much ), and allows lots of oxygen to circulate through the soil as well.. Moisture sensitive cacti / some other stuff i have would be decimated if it stayed wet.. While some grades of it are less porous than Pumice,  Lava rock will also absorb and gradually release moisture, just like Pumice ( Both are Volcanic )

Regardless, results i have seen over the last several years, both among stuff in containers, and where i have mixed Turface ..and / or  Pumice, ..and grit in planting holes speak for themselves..  No Youtube opinion required

Expand  

Yeah that's why I was thinking it may be fine for Breaktheory and anywhere other than Floriduh.  I only noticed it when I repotted an Arenga Hookeriana a few weeks ago.  It had rained heavy for a couple of days (about 2.5" total) and 3 days later the pot was still sopping wet.  That Turface was holding a lot of water.  In my case chicken grit or other small gravel might be better, due to the excessive rain.

[Breaktheory]

  On 3/28/2022 at 4:22 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

1 to 1 1/2 X's the size of the root ball is usually good.. So say, for instance you're planning on planting something in a 15Gal.. I'd  make the hole about 3 - 5" wider ( Have gone bigger.. say 7-8" as well on some things in the past ) and maybe 8-10" deeper than the bottom of the pot..  That gives the roots some space to venture out and start working into the native soil..

If you look at what is growing in the soil as - is you'll see whatever you plant shouldn't have too hard of a time anchoring itself into the native soil as it grows into it.. Roots are pretty good at drilling through pretty tough stuff..  That said, when you dig the hole, always best to fill it up w/ water before planting that way the sides will be softer and moist from the start..

While fully guilty of not always doing it myself when planting, running the hose through the soil ..as you're back filling it after planting is also recommended. Helps the soil settle correctly / eliminates any air pockets beneath the root ball itself you cant see

Been awhile, but @MattyB Had shared an excellent technique of planting in " bowls "( maybe not the exact term he'd used )  ..IE:  planting out Palms / etc slightly below the grade of your yard, rather than at the same level.. Helped w/ water collection, and keeping mulch / any accumulation of organic stuff that settled in the depression around the base of the palms.. Seemed to work wonders for him..

Expand  

When you say running the hose, do you mean a slow steady stream inside the hole as I backfill?

My neighbor has Queens in circles that are about 4 and a half feet in diameter surrounded by edging - he didn’t plant these palms but is guessing they were planted 10-15 years ago as babies. Picture below:

This is a huge area over 4 x the width of a 15G rootball…

Is it likely the original hole was 4 feet or is this something that’s done after the fact to help with mulching?

His palms are the thickest on the block and I wonder if it’s because he dug a huge hole.

Thanks for helping with my very beginner questions

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 3/30/2022 at 2:02 AM, Breaktheory said:

When you say running the hose, do you mean a slow steady stream inside the hole as I backfill?

My neighbor has Queens in circles that are about 4 and a half feet in diameter surrounded by edging - he didn’t plant these palms but is guessing they were planted 10-15 years ago as babies. Picture below:

This is a huge area over 4 x the width of a 15G rootball…

Is it likely the original hole was 4 feet or is this something that’s done after the fact to help with mulching?

His palms are the thickest on the block and I wonder if it’s because he dug a huge hole.

Thanks for helping with my very beginner questions

Expand  

Run the water just enough that it will soak through all the soil as you are back filling.. Some people will even run something like a stick or digging bar ( much heavier, lol ) up and down through the soil while back filling as well to be extra sure air pockets are eliminated from around and / or under the rootball.. Being sure the base of the rootball is level with the bottom of the planting hole also helps eliminate any air pockets as well.. ( you can still loosen a few inches of soil at the bottom of the hole, to give new roots something softer to start pushing into )

Would bet those rings were installed long after the palms had been planted.. A 4ft wide hole ( 2ft on each side of the trunk  ) for a 15gal would be a bit of overkill when installing the palms initially.. Yea, you could dig a hole that wide.. but, would you really want to, haha.. A hole ..say 8" wider than the edge of a 15gal pot would be plenty big enough to get things off to a good start..

Wouldn't doubt some soil had been brought into / moved around to help create the smoother grade of that part of the yard between the house and the street.. Have seen that done when watching some housing developments get built back in my neighborhood in San Jose..  That less compacted soil, plus mulch laid down over time / organic material laid down by the grass, over time ( Slope itself, and good care of course )  likely explains why those queens are healthy ( roots or pretty much anything have a much easier time moving through soil that isn't severely compacted ) Finer root growth likely extend a distance beyond where those rings are..

I myself would relocate those Orange Birds away from up against the trunk ( Picture #1 ).. Looks like they're a little too " snuggled in tight together "  

[Breaktheory]

@Silas_Sancona you might be right about the soil being worked - most of the palms in my area are fairly skinny and I wonder if it has something to do with our native soil which is thick rocky clay.

this moving soil around you’re describing is the idea with the larger hole…breaking up enough compacted soil around the base of the tree so that the roots have an easier time breaking through

Edited March 30, 2022 by Breaktheory

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 3/30/2022 at 3:13 AM, Breaktheory said:

@Silas_Sancona you might be right about the soil being worked - most of the palms in my area are fairly skinny and I wonder if it has something to do with our native soil which is thick rocky clay.

this moving soil around you’re describing is the idea with the larger hole…breaking up enough compacted soil around the base of the tree so that the roots have an easier time breaking through

Expand  

If you go and dig around into the native soil in a less disturbed / " wild " area near where you live, more than likely, you'll notice that you can dig fairly easily through it, even though it likely contains just as much finer clay or sand particles, and / or rock as you might find when you're digging holes in your yard, let alone compared to areas around a house where the soil had heavy machinery repeatedly running over it as it was being built, constantly packing it down, or where the " good soil " layer was completely removed, ..or covered with a layer of  " bad " soil, then repeatedly compacted.., leaving the future home owner to start off with awful stuff.  Obviously, compaction issues are made worse in areas where there's a lot of fine clay.. Digging through it when planting to looser soil below ( hopefully, lol ) helps, but adding in organics / other amendments to start the process of breaking up the entire compacted layer will be more beneficial in the long run.. You want all the soil in your yard to act like a sponge, not just here or there where you've managed to get below the compacted layer then apply mulch/ other organics just in those spots..

Skinny / sickly queens / other palms or trees can definitely be a sign of them struggling in compacted soil, but, other things could be going on as well that make a bad situation worse..

Areas built where Orchards or fields of Vegetables were grown can have their own issues ..Many times the constant use of herbicides, wayyy too much Phosphorus, etc over the years / decades can completely sterilize the soil. At the same time, repeated tilling wears away any organics until, again, a future homeowner on such a piece of property is starting off with the bare essentials.. the long worn down remains of rock.  Same process of adding organics, microbes, and the constant growing and decaying of plant roots / other material that works it's way into the soil starts the healing process..





 

[sonoranfans]

  On 3/24/2022 at 5:48 PM, Breaktheory said:

Hello all
 

Total beginner here… I have rocky clay soil although it is surprisingly well draining.

The most common advice seems to be to dig a hole 1.5 x the width and 1.5 x the depth of the pot, mix 50/50 native and amendment then bottom fill as well as back fill with amended soil.

A good grower suggested to me that because of my clay soil, I should dig a hole double the width of the the pot but only a few inches deeper and backfill with a 50/50 mix of native soil and only perlite.

Is anyone with clay using this perlite only technique successfully?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Expand  

I dont like this approach for gardening as it would restrict root growth to the perlite ammended area.  You would have to find a watering cycle for the perlite ammendment and it will be much faster as it dries out fast from the top.  But the frequent watering of the perlite with mke additional root area soggy when the pertile ammended soil needs to be rewatered.  Soil that doesn't dry out will rot the roots in that area for many palm species.  So you get a stunted growth from that approach due to suboptimal dry cycles for new growth past the ammended zone.  Adding perlite to clay helps with limiting compacted soil, but does nothing to address the locking of the soil by Ca.  The break up the calcium add sulfur pellets.  These will be biodegraded by microbes into sulfates which bind with Ca to form gypsum(CaSO4) which wets and drains nicely opening up the cation exchange in your soil.  Moisture channeling in the soil can make you think your watering is feeding when its not.  These channels are mostly due to Ca or Na imbalances in soil If you have high calcium soil don't add gypsum add sulfur, if your soils are high sodium, add the gypsum as sold (CaSO4).  Adding perlite means you will use more water long term than converting your soil chemistry, and perlite has zero cation exchange capacity so its nonfunctional in nutrient delivery.  If you want to limit the size of your palms a bit, it could be a good approach with 50% perlite, like around a pool.  If I were gardening in california I'm sure I would want to conserve water as much as possible while having healthy palms.  Converting soil chemistry to provide better more uniform wetting(top to bottom) in the root zone seems a better way to go.  I used perlite in the desert but no more than 15% in some really heavy, poor drainage clay soil.  when an 18" clay hole takes 24+ hrs to drain its pretty bad.  IN severe drainage situation where things are just not draining I dug down to a drainage improvement(4-6') and used perlite down there to prevent it from resealing in the future.  At the end of all this is must do annual or biannual humic acid drenching and mulching.  The mulch will work its way into the soil over time and the humic acid provides microbial stimulation and a chelation that can work in nutrient delivery at a moderately unfavorable soil pH.   If nothing looks good in the area, the first thing I would do is get a few soil samples and find out if you have a bad chemistry problem.  I would sample at multiple sites near the palm(s) of interest.  Get a soil analysis panel, you might save yourself some money.

[Breaktheory]

  On 3/30/2022 at 3:46 PM, sonoranfans said:

I dont like this approach for gardening as it would restrict root growth to the perlite ammended area.  You would have to find a watering cycle for the perlite ammendment and it will be much faster as it dries out fast from the top.  But the frequent watering of the perlite with mke additional root area soggy when the pertile ammended soil needs to be rewatered.  Soil that doesn't dry out will rot the roots in that area for many palm species.  So you get a stunted growth from that approach due to suboptimal dry cycles for new growth past the ammended zone.  Adding perlite to clay helps with limiting compacted soil, but does nothing to address the locking of the soil by Ca.  The break up the calcium add sulfur pellets.  These will be biodegraded by microbes into sulfates which bind with Ca to form gypsum(CaSO4) which wets and drains nicely opening up the cation exchange in your soil.  Moisture channeling in the soil can make you think your watering is feeding when its not.  These channels are mostly due to Ca or Na imbalances in soil If you have high calcium soil don't add gypsum add sulfur, if your soils are high sodium, add the gypsum as sold (CaSO4).  Adding perlite means you will use more water long term than converting your soil chemistry, and perlite has zero cation exchange capacity so its nonfunctional in nutrient delivery.  If you want to limit the size of your palms a bit, it could be a good approach with 50% perlite, like around a pool.  If I were gardening in california I'm sure I would want to conserve water as much as possible while having healthy palms.  Converting soil chemistry to provide better more uniform wetting(top to bottom) in the root zone seems a better way to go.  I used perlite in the desert but no more than 15% in some really heavy, poor drainage clay soil.  when an 18" clay hole takes 24+ hrs to drain its pretty bad.  IN severe drainage situation where things are just not draining I dug down to a drainage improvement(4-6') and used perlite down there to prevent it from resealing in the future.  At the end of all this is must do annual or biannual humic acid drenching and mulching.  The mulch will work its way into the soil over time and the humic acid provides microbial stimulation and a chelation that can work in nutrient delivery at a moderately unfavorable soil pH.   If nothing looks good in the area, the first thing I would do is get a few soil samples and find out if you have a bad chemistry problem.  I would sample at multiple sites near the palm(s) of interest.  Get a soil analysis panel, you might save yourself some money.

Expand  

Thanks for the breakdown - I’m sure it would be helpful to get an analysis but not sure Id know how to remedy any issues that came up.

I don’t have a major drainage issue but the soil does seem compacted…if I fill a 15 gallon size hole with water, it drains in a few hours but the bottom still looks like shiny mud until the sun dries it out in a day. I can grab handfuls like ice cream it’s so thick. 

In my backyard, the soil was brought in by contractors years ago and is very well draining - a 15 gallon hole drains almost as fast as it fills up and within 3 hours it doesn’t even look wet anymore….I’d like to recreate this makeup in the front but not sure how you accomplish this on an entire front lawn.

[Breaktheory]

  On 3/30/2022 at 4:19 AM, Silas_Sancona said:

If you go and dig around into the native soil in a less disturbed / " wild " area near where you live, more than likely, you'll notice that you can dig fairly easily through it, even though it likely contains just as much finer clay or sand particles, and / or rock as you might find when you're digging holes in your yard, let alone compared to areas around a house where the soil had heavy machinery repeatedly running over it as it was being built, constantly packing it down, or where the " good soil " layer was completely removed, ..or covered with a layer of  " bad " soil, then repeatedly compacted.., leaving the future home owner to start off with awful stuff.  Obviously, compaction issues are made worse in areas where there's a lot of fine clay.. Digging through it when planting to looser soil below ( hopefully, lol ) helps, but adding in organics / other amendments to start the process of breaking up the entire compacted layer will be more beneficial in the long run.. You want all the soil in your yard to act like a sponge, not just here or there where you've managed to get below the compacted layer then apply mulch/ other organics just in those spots..

Skinny / sickly queens / other palms or trees can definitely be a sign of them struggling in compacted soil, but, other things could be going on as well that make a bad situation worse..

Areas built where Orchards or fields of Vegetables were grown can have their own issues ..Many times the constant use of herbicides, wayyy too much Phosphorus, etc over the years / decades can completely sterilize the soil. At the same time, repeated tilling wears away any organics until, again, a future homeowner on such a piece of property is starting off with the bare essentials.. the long worn down remains of rock.  Same process of adding organics, microbes, and the constant growing and decaying of plant roots / other material that works it's way into the soil starts the healing process..





 

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@Silas_Sancona I have a friend that deep tilled his entire yard when he moved in, mixing in organics and amendments. Things grow great for him but the cost involved in doing this and then re-sodding the lawn would be way over my budget…re-seeding would be cheaper than laying sod but then my front yard turns into a dirt mound for 6-12 months and I get fined by HOA and cursed by neighbors!

Would it make sense to split the difference by reworking and amending soil in just areas where I intend to plant as I do my planting? 

 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

  On 3/30/2022 at 6:25 PM, Breaktheory said:

@Silas_Sancona I have a friend that deep tilled his entire yard when he moved in, mixing in organics and amendments. Things grow great for him but the cost involved in doing this and then re-sodding the lawn would be way over my budget…re-seeding would be cheaper than laying sod but then my front yard turns into a dirt mound for 6-12 months and I get fined by HOA and cursed by neighbors!

Would it make sense to split the difference by reworking and amending soil in just areas where I intend to plant as I do my planting? 

 

 

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Starting w/ the areas where you'll be planting is a good start..  Agree, while a great idea,  tilling / reseeding/ sodding an entire yard can be costly.. Don't think i'd do it myself, unless converting an entire lawn.. Regardless,  If your HOA had issues w/ improving your lawn / rest of your landscape, i myself would get the city involved to counter any trouble an HOA might raise.. As for what overly critical neighbors might think?, haha.. Won't spell out what i think of such opinions, majority of them ..anyway.. 

Rest of the yard(s) can be worked on over time..  In the case of the yard, you can do things like leaving some ..but not all.. of the grass clippings ( and /or any chopped up leaves ) on the lawn when you cut, or a couple times through the year..  You can also spread stuff like Greensand, and Biochar ..there's 2 products by Mirimichi Green < CarbonizPM and Essentials G > that can be applied in a similar way you'd spread fertilizer on a lawn, or added in w/ the backfill when you plant stuff  worth researching  ..< among other options for improving soil structure/ texture > that aren't super expensive, or labor intensive that will do the job of loosening any compacted soil you might have / improve the soil -overall- over time.. 

No need to do everything all at once.. Start reasonable, and within a budget that is comfortable.. ( You never want to be a slave to the yard, lol )

From how it sounded in your initial post, soil may be rocky / possess a good amount of finer clay ( and/ or sand ) but still drains well, which is a great start and half the battle of getting newly planted things to establish well.