Washingtonia in DFW

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Sadly there are few Washingtonia remaining here, but Having spent the past few weeks in North Dallas I have been surprised to see some rather tall Washingtonia trunks still, and pulled some up on google earth and they looked really good prior to the freeze. Washingtonia with good genetics can survive here semi long term

 

Post any Washingtonia survivors on here 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

[knikfar]

Is that a survivor next to the interstate? 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

5 hours ago, knikfar said:

Is that a survivor next to the interstate? 

Yes it is. There’s a few older purish Filifera around town that survived

[Sabal King]

I think this is a fools errand.  You may get them for a bit, but ultimately, they are outside of this zone.  Driving around here there are so many dead washies, even a lot of trachys croaked.  Want to know what didn't croak?  Sabals.... the massive variety of Sabals that are available to us but most people simply ignore because they buy crap from Lowe's\Home Depot or whatever their landscaper provides them.  For every ONE of those washies around here, there should be 500 Sabals , easily, because they thrive here.

It's so sad, but I'm working to change that around here.

[Jtee]

3 hours ago, tlow said:

I think this is a fools errand.  You may get them for a bit, but ultimately, they are outside of this zone.  Driving around here there are so many dead washies, even a lot of trachys croaked.  Want to know what didn't croak?  Sabals.... the massive variety of Sabals that are available to us but most people simply ignore because they buy crap from Lowe's\Home Depot or whatever their landscaper provides them.  For every ONE of those washies around here, there should be 500 Sabals , easily, because they thrive here.

It's so sad, but I'm working to change that around here.

How easy is it to score a Sabal in the DFW area?

I live near where they are native here in the SE and they are common around town, but not very easy to find unless you seek it out or want a large one for a few hundred dollars that requires paying for install. 
I do agree though that it’s sabals that should be the palm for your area but they are not as easy to come by especially for the person that just wants a palm but knows nothing about cold hardiness. 

[NBTX11]

3 hours ago, tlow said:

I think this is a fools errand.  You may get them for a bit, but ultimately, they are outside of this zone.  Driving around here there are so many dead washies, even a lot of trachys croaked.  Want to know what didn't croak?  Sabals.... the massive variety of Sabals that are available to us but most people simply ignore because they buy crap from Lowe's\Home Depot or whatever their landscaper provides them.  For every ONE of those washies around here, there should be 500 Sabals , easily, because they thrive here.

It's so sad, but I'm working to change that around here.

The chances of you seeing a freeze like last year, in terms of both length of freeze and depth of freeze (ultimate cold temps) any time soon are low.  That type of freeze is typically spaced decades apart.  The fact that a few Filifera survived is a good indication of their semi-long term hardiness.  I agree with you about Sabals, however, pure-ish Filifera should not be given up on in DFW.  In fact, I would double down on their planting.  They are much faster than Sabals, and you can have a large palm in a decade or decade and half.  There are huge, mature, pre-1980 Filifera well up into Central Texas.  I have personally seen a pair of Filifera that were like 70 years old or so up in Killeen Texas, that were obvious 1983/1989 freeze survivors, and of course they are everywhere in Austin.  I also know of a large one in Burnet, TX, way up in the cold Hill Country, that survived and looks great now.   

Edited March 12, 2022 by NBTX11

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Washingtonias are definitely risky up here, but if you get one with the right genetics it can last for many many years. Given how quickly they grow it is worth it if you have the right microclimate. Need to be planted close to foundation of house, and be shielded from north winds. Even in austin all the tall thin trucked surivivors were close to a building for most part 
 

I am personally scattering Sabal seeds all around town, but it will take years before those come up and form a trunk and have a real impact on the landscape here

[GregDFW]

21 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

The chances of you seeing a freeze like last year, in terms of both length of freeze and depth of freeze (ultimate cold temps) any time soon are low.  That type of freeze is typically spaced decades apart.  The fact that a few Filifera survived is a good indication of their semi-long term hardiness.  I agree with you about Sabals, however, pure-ish Filifera should not be given up on in DFW.  In fact, I would double down on their planting.  They are much faster than Sabals, and you can have a large palm in a decade or decade and half.  There are huge, mature, pre-1980 Filifera well up into Central Texas.  I have personally seen a pair of Filifera that were like 70 years old or so up in Killeen Texas, that were obvious 1983/1989 freeze survivors, and of course they are everywhere in Austin.  I also know of a large one in Burnet, TX, way up in the cold Hill Country, that survived and looks great now.   

I took my 22 foot trunk Filifera out in late May last year after having it for 10 years.   Grew to that size from about a foot of trunk.  A nearby sabal which survived after trunk cutting I bought with 4 to 5 feet of trunk about 8 years earlier is now about 8  feet of trunk in just a little less time.  Of course the price difference was $59 vs $850 or $950  plus expensive planting on top of that for the sabal.  I figure 10 years of enjoymnet was worth the risk, other than based on my planting location it was very expensive to get removed.

A nearby nursery had 20+ foot filifera in ground for more than the 11 years I've lived here.  Only 1 of the 3 survived, but they just removed them all last week.  

The sabals I have are also much cleaner to have near a pool, and just in the yard in general, so I definitely look at them as the best backbone of a landscape up here.  I did just come home with a CIDP so probably making a bigger mistake than replanting a filifera.

[Little Tex]

With all due respect calling washingtonia risky because of a rare storm is a shallow argument. Washingtonia died as far south as Mcallen. This affected San Antonio and Houston bad as well, would you say washingtonia are risky in Houston? You dont even see 95% survival until Kingsville or Corpus.  All plants die. There is even a dead sabal in Houston. While washingtonias are beautiful palms, I personally like Sabals better than Washingtonias. But to the general public the stature and recognizability of them is more profitable to business.  Sure they are only a 35-40 year palm at best, but I think there is no problem with planting them. 

[NBTX11]

3 hours ago, GregDFW said:

I took my 22 foot trunk Filifera out in late May last year after having it for 10 years.   Grew to that size from about a foot of trunk.  A nearby sabal which survived after trunk cutting I bought with 4 to 5 feet of trunk about 8 years earlier is now about 8  feet of trunk in just a little less time.  Of course the price difference was $59 vs $850 or $950  plus expensive planting on top of that for the sabal.  I figure 10 years of enjoymnet was worth the risk, other than based on my planting location it was very expensive to get removed.

A nearby nursery had 20+ foot filifera in ground for more than the 11 years I've lived here.  Only 1 of the 3 survived, but they just removed them all last week.  

The sabals I have are also much cleaner to have near a pool, and just in the yard in general, so I definitely look at them as the best backbone of a landscape up here.  I did just come home with a CIDP so probably making a bigger mistake than replanting a filifera.

Canary Island Dates are just as hardy as Filifera.  The problem with Canary Dates, however, especially for Zone 8b like Dallas, is that they burn heavily below 20 degrees.  In fact, some down here burned at around 20 or 21 degrees back in early Feb.  These are palms that had fully recovered from the Feb 21 freeze.  But, Canaries can take serious cold and ultimately recover, if you don't mind looking at dead fronds for a while.

[NBTX11]

1 hour ago, Little Tex said:

With all due respect calling washingtonia risky because of a rare storm is a shallow argument. Washingtonia died as far south as Mcallen. This affected San Antonio and Houston bad as well, would you say washingtonia are risky in Houston? You dont even see 95% survival until Kingsville or Corpus.  All plants die. There is even a dead sabal in Houston. While washingtonias are beautiful palms, I personally like Sabals better than Washingtonias. But to the general public the stature and recognizability of them is more profitable to business.  Sure they are only a 35-40 year palm at best, but I think there is no problem with planting them. 

Well said.  I'd plant a W. Robusta in a second again in San Antonio, despite the fact many were killed.  By the way many lived also.  But their growth rate and hardiness make them great options for South Central Texas, provided you are prepared to lose them in 35-40 years like you said.  Heck, they may be 50-60 feet tall before then next killing freeze.

[Collectorpalms]

If you look at the soil map. The area that is the Blackland Prairie, generally From San Antonio and along and east of 35 to Dallas and Collin county soil type supports heathy growing Washingtonia Filifera.  Once you get east of this area, humidity and different soil type make Filifera much harder to grow and just are not as nice, and had major issues with decline in the spring and summer rains. Its why you just do not see many long term Filifera in the Southeast and Florida. Also when trying to grow seedlings you have a great percentage of damping off of seedlings. So nurseries basically end up with Robusta dominate nursery stock.

 

1. If you are in the red ( Blackland Prairie ) go for them they will do well)

Edited March 14, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[GregDFW]

9 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Canary Island Dates are just as hardy as Filifera.  The problem with Canary Dates, however, especially for Zone 8b like Dallas, is that they burn heavily below 20 degrees.  In fact, some down here burned at around 20 or 21 degrees back in early Feb.  These are palms that had fully recovered from the Feb 21 freeze.  But, Canaries can take serious cold and ultimately recover, if you don't mind looking at dead fronds for a while.

I just planted it today in a very prominent spot so it migh be ugly come next year but I'm excited to try something new.  The Filifera defoliated a few times in the decade I had it but was super quick to recover those years.  I try not to think if I gave up on it too quick.  I potted up two seedlings but really don't have space for something so small right now that could get huge in time.  

[Little Tex]

10 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

If you look at the soil map. The area that is the Blackland Prairie, generally From San Antonio and along and east of 35 to Dallas and Collin county soil type supports heathy growing Washingtonia Filifera.  Once you get east of this area, humidity and different soil type make Filifera much harder to grow and just are not as nice, and had major issues with decline in the spring and summer rains. Its why you just do not see many long term Filifera in the Southeast and Florida. Also when trying to grow seedlings you have a great percentage of damping off of seedlings. So nurseries basically end up with Robusta dominate nursery stock.

 

1. If you are in the red ( Blackland Prairie ) go for them they will do well)

I'd imagine they would do just as well in the southern Chihuahuan deserts and Southern Texas plains. 

[Collectorpalms]

3 hours ago, Little Tex said:

I'd imagine they would do just as well in the southern Chihuahuan deserts and Southern Texas plains. 

Why?

[Little Tex]

1 hour ago, Collectorpalms said:

Why?

My grandmother lives in one of those two (I wont say to respect her privacy) but all in her neighbor hood are filiferas looking as good as ones in SA or SoCal.

 

[Jtee]

58 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

My grandmother lives in one of those two (I wont say to respect her privacy) but all in her neighbor hood are filiferas looking as good as ones in SA or SoCal.

 

Must be in El Paso

[Collectorpalms]

1 hour ago, Little Tex said:

My grandmother lives in one of those two (I wont say to respect her privacy) but all in her neighbor hood are filiferas looking as good as ones in SA or SoCal.

 

Very few to nil Pureish Filifera come out of the Rio Grand Valley. I wish they did, it would be an oil field boom for Texas. Further west of the dew point divide yes they grow fine, but your not going to get the great growth out of them and be able to field grow them for a profit.

they naturally grow in mountainous ravines with their  feet in water. Those mountains normally supply a lot of minerals. So parts of the Empire of the US Southwest they can field grow them and Dates.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[Little Tex]

21 minutes ago, Jtee said:

Must be in El Paso

il just say RGV

[Jtee]

49 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

il just say RGV

Ohhhh ok, well El Paso has a lot of them too, I’ve seen some streets that look like an LA neighborhood. Now I don’t know how well they’d do in the southern plains like Lubbock. It gets cold and windy there!!

[Little Tex]

14 minutes ago, Jtee said:

I don’t know how well they’d do in the southern plains like Lubbock

Lubbock is in the southwestern tablelands. None there, I saw 1 windmill and some yucca last time I went, but then again I wasn't looking, Its also 7b Lots of cactus.

[Jtee]

1 hour ago, Little Tex said:

Lubbock is in the southwestern tablelands. None there, I saw 1 windmill and some yucca last time I went, but then again I wasn't looking, Its also 7b Lots of cactus.

Yeah I grew up not too far from Lubbock, winters can be harsh. I’ve never seen a palm there, but I’m sure someone had a windmill somewhere in a yard or a random palm getting beat up by cold winds. 

[Little Tex]

3 minutes ago, Jtee said:

Yeah I grew up not too far from Lubbock, winters can be harsh. I’ve never seen a palm there, but I’m sure someone had a windmill somewhere in a yard or a random palm getting beat up by cold winds. 

I saw a really cool metal sculpture of one in Amarillo 

[NBTX11]

Palms are a no go in Lubbock.  Too cold.  A few years ago some guy had a large yard full of large palms in San Angelo.  I bet they all bit the dust.

I have personally seen a small handful of palms in Wichita Falls.  Couple sabals, trachys, and Washingtonias.  All are probably dead now, I haven't checked recently.