Windmill Palms struggling

[palm93021]

I had planted two 15 gallon windmill palms about 6 months ago.   I live in Southern California and they get plenty of sun.   I followed the guidelines on slow drip watering unfortunately they look like they’re dying.  Was hoping for some advice on getting the fronds green again.   I’m attaching some pics and and ph test results.   Thanks again!

Note:  we been getting more than usual heavy winds with gusts up to 50 mph if that could be an issue as well.

don’t mind the weeds I plan on getting rid of them

Edited March 6, 2022 by palm93021

[UK_Palms]

Definitely too dry by the looks of things. Trachycarpus can take a lot of drought during the summer months, providing they receive plenty of winter rainfall and decent amounts of rain during spring and fall. They will get this in temperate and Mediterranean climates, but not in semi-arid or desert climates where it is much drier and the water table is way lower. Trachy's are going to struggle if is dry year-round, since their native range sees 50 inches of rain per year and it is very humid. SoCal is drastically different. 

Trachy's really need at least 20 inches of rainfall per year, especially in a hot climate like southern California. You will get away with 10-15 inches in a temperate climate (not likely to happen), but you won't get away with that low amount in the southern California oven at 32N. They will need ample irrigation. I would water the hell out of it to green it up. It just looks stressed right now, but it may go downhill fast as summer approaches. I remember seeing a bunch of severely drought-stressed Trachy's in the Canary Islands a few years back. 

[Allen]

Maybe originally greenhouse grown and not acclimated to your sun?  Water as stated above.  Trachy can look ratty until they establish but here they like clay soil and water.  They like temps in the 60-80 range best.

[aztropic]

WAAY too dry!!!

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[palm93021]

Thanks for the replies.   I have those plastic tubes with holes in them I drove down by the base and used a timer to slow drip water down the hole of the tube.   Should I just remove the water line from the tube and let it drip around the base?   Also how much water should I be doing?   I’ve been doing around 30 minutes every 3 days…

 

also that berm is all California clay so when I planted I used 50/50 mixed with the clay soil and some palm fertilizer.

[UK_Palms]

@palm93021 Drip systems and tubes obviously aren't working and you probably won't have time on your side in SoCal. The temperature will start ramping up again and there will be even less rain. I would just stick to the old fashioned watering can method while you get these back to health. Or just put the handheld hose straight on them if you have to.

Give each one a deep, deep soaking once every 3 days for the next month, then cut back to once every 7 days. You can't overwater a Trachycarpus in southern California, metaphorically speaking. If you haven't got many palms to fuss about, hand watering them shouldn't be too much effort. At least you can make sure they get a proper soaking!

[palm93021]

I maybe an idiot but what do you mean by deep soak?   Hose out full blast laying on top of base for 30 minutes?

[UK_Palms]

Give each Trachycarpus at least one full watering can load of water, applying it gradually to minimise runoff. If you're using a hose, don't have it on a jet setting striking the palm directly, or disturbing the dirt. Have it on a low setting, or without a top on it, soaking the soil heavily. The hose shouldn't need to be on each palm for more than a couple of minutes really. Just make sure it has been watered thoroughly to the point that the soil is almost saturated around the palm. Again you can't really overwater a Trachy in SoCal, metaphorically speaking.

[aztropic]

39 minutes ago, palm93021 said:

I maybe an idiot but what do you mean by deep soak?   Hose out full blast laying on top of base for 30 minutes?

Figure about 20 gallons minimum of water per tree for a deep soak,however you apply it. If you only have a 2 gpm drip head,you need to run the system 10 hours.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Las Palmas Norte]

All the above, and they're not really the best suited palms for SoCal. 

[palm93021]

Should I poke holes around the base of the trunk with a screw driver so water goes down towards the roots?   Keep in mind my berm is California clay so not sure water will get to where it’s needed because its like concrete when its dry 

[palm93021]

Thanks for all the help!   Hopefully this works.   I added a few more pictures as you can see my setup.   I took some stakes to drive a few holes around the base so water will get through.   As you can tell water puddles up quickly because the clay gets pretty hard.   I’ll do this for an over every other day to see how it works.   I read I might need magnesium sulfate on some other site but wasn’t sure to add as of yet.

[aztropic]

[spike]

interesting, I live in socal as well, though in the san gabriel valley. They are sometimes used as a street tree here and survive pretty well. I'm guessing it's the climate or they have drip irrigation set up but I don't really know. If you live farther south I'm guessing you'll need more water. Image below. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by spike

[palm93021]

Yeah I’m close.   They have tons of palms out here so I know they grow fine in this climate.   Those are huge.  I was hoping for a palm no larger than 9 feet :) that would go well with my cactus’s.

[Chester B]

Trachycarpus fortunei aren’t the best Palm for your location.  Too hot and dry.  Trachycarpus princeps is better suited to your climate or some Brahea  

However you already have them so for your palms I would immediately add mulch to help retain soil moisture and cool the soil down a bit.   Wood mulch, river rock, really anything would go a long way.  You might also want to top dress with some manure first. For the mulch I have at least a 4’ diameter covered. I think they would look best if they got some shade, especially from late afternoon sun if that’s at all possible.  Even here the ones in full sun don’t always look the best.   These palms tend to look better less as a single specimen but incorporated into an overall garden design. 
 

Here Trachys are pretty big and robust compared to what you see in California. You can tell they don’t like the climate down there and there are so many more wonderful palms available that will thrive in your climate.

This is what they look like in commercial plantings around here  

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Chester B

[palm93021]

These are Trachycarpus princeps to my knowledge.  Here’s what the looked like before placing in the ground.   I was told they were well suited since they’re a hardier palm.

I just call them windmill palms but maybe they’re not

 

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

12 hours ago, spike said:

interesting, I live in socal as well, though in the san gabriel valley. They are sometimes used as a street tree here and survive pretty well. I'm guessing it's the climate or they have drip irrigation set up but I don't really know. If you live farther south I'm guessing you'll need more water. Image below. 

Those sure are small crowns on those palms! Here they're also grown in center street islands and are regularly trimmed. Thicker trunks and larger crowns.

 

[Chester B]

38 minutes ago, palm93021 said:

These are Trachycarpus princeps to my knowledge.  Here’s what the looked like before placing in the ground.   I was told they were well suited since they’re a hardier palm.

I just call them windmill palms but maybe they’re not

 

 

Those sure don't look like princeps to me.  Standard T fortunei to my eyes.

Princeps are bluish with white undersides, plus each leaf segment are fused further up the frond on most plants.  Do a google image search and you'll get what I'm saying. 

 

[palm93021]

So these get really tall?   That’s a bummer because I specifically asked the nursery for the Princeps.   Thanks again 

[Allen]

1 hour ago, palm93021 said:

So these get really tall?   That’s a bummer because I specifically asked the nursery for the Princeps.   Thanks again 

20-30' Trachycarpus fortunei

[Chester B]

1 hour ago, palm93021 said:

So these get really tall?   That’s a bummer because I specifically asked the nursery for the Princeps.   Thanks again 

Princeps grow to 30' tall as well, maybe you had a different palm in mind.

[palm93021]

Yeah I asked our landscaper for a palm that doesn’t get over 12 feet that compliments cactus desert look and survives in my climate/soil.   

 

I actually think these are beautiful but now concerned over the years they’ll be too tall and clash with the landscape.

 

Thanks again 

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

1 hour ago, Allen said:

20-30' Trachycarpus fortunei

I've seen 40' ers. (50 year old palms)

[Chester B]

1 hour ago, palm93021 said:

Yeah I asked our landscaper for a palm that doesn’t get over 12 feet that compliments cactus desert look and survives in my climate/soil.   

 

I actually think these are beautiful but now concerned over the years they’ll be too tall and clash with the landscape.

 

Thanks again 

 

Brahea decumbens would work well based on your criteria and location.  You could also do Nannarhops ritchiana but they don't look nearly as good in my opinion.

[palm93021]

Chester B, I really liked the Brahea decumbens.   Thanks for the tip!   

[njpalmguy]

On 3/7/2022 at 12:10 AM, Las Palmas Norte said:

All the above, and they're not really the best suited palms for SoCal. 

yeah. you’d have a better chance of growing a normal california fan palm which, in my opinion, looks pretty good. windmill palms grow easier in more moist conditions and in cooler climates like the climate here in New Jersey, Delaware and Maryland