Bald Head Island Palmetto Seed Collecting Trip

[Joe NC]

I was working on the Cape Fear River next to Bald Head Island yesterday, and had to kill around 30 mins to let the tide drop so I could access the equipment I had deployed... Anyhow, I took advantage of that bit of time to go out on one of the undeveloped marsh islands to collect some Sabal palmetto seed.

Early Feb seems to be the best time to collect fresh fruit from the native palms.  Since the island where I was collecting seed is separate from the developed portion of BHI, the seeds I collected should be pure "BHI" strain palmetto.

I didn't have much time to explore or collect many seeds, but I did end up with a couple hundred (ish?).  

I will only try and germinate about a dozen, so I'm willing to give away/trade the rest.  If any of you are interested send me a PM!

 

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

My guess is they'd be hardy to about 20°F for brief infrequent periods? 

[Xerarch]

11 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

My guess is they'd be hardy to about 20°F for brief infrequent periods? 

Any run of the mill Sabal Palmetto is more hardy than that, I'd say a good general number is 10 degrees F (-12.2 C)

[ShadyDan]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

My guess is they'd be hardy to about 20°F for brief infrequent periods? 

My palmetto took -8.3C during the Christmas cold snap with no apparent damage. Just a run of the mill regular palmetto too. 

[N8ALLRIGHT]

After the Texas event last year it appears that sabal palmetto could certainly take brief dips to 0 fahrenheit and those were standard Florida variety. Bald head island should endure these temperatures even better

[BeyondTheGarden]

Hope I'm not hijacking but what's the preferred method/growing medium for germinating palmetto seeds?  I collected a few dozen in central Florida I still need to germinate. 

[JLM]

2 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

Hope I'm not hijacking but what's the preferred method/growing medium for germinating palmetto seeds?  I collected a few dozen in central Florida I still need to germinate. 

I tried different ways. Seems that any ordinary potting mix from the big box store will be good enough to get these going. I think i used left over top soil to germinate mine. One of them is putting out its first partially palmate frond right now. They are both coming up on 2 years old.

[ShadyDan]

3 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

Hope I'm not hijacking but what's the preferred method/growing medium for germinating palmetto seeds?  I collected a few dozen in central Florida I still need to germinate. 

I just use the normal 50/50 peat/perlite mix I use for germinating palms. Keep the medium nice and moist and use bottom heat. Sabals are usually super easy and quick to germinate, as little as 2 weeks. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Do you remove the..... i'm bad at botany terms.... the "skin"?

[Joe NC]

26 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

Do you remove the..... i'm bad at botany terms.... the "skin"?

If you are talking about the crispy black part that easily cracks and comes off, yes.  It is the dried thin "fruit" and "skin" part (I think technically the mesocarp and exocarp).

[Dartolution]

10 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

Hope I'm not hijacking but what's the preferred method/growing medium for germinating palmetto seeds?  I collected a few dozen in central Florida I still need to germinate. 

@Jesse PNW I use either Jiffy seed starting mix thats been rehydrated in seaweed extract and water, or coco coir (same rehydration). Both work perfectly fine. I've germinated over 100 different seeds this winter - sabals comprising about half of them. They are very easy. 

[Brad Mondel]

I have seedlings from Edisto Island, SC. Would love to try BHI NC also. 

[Las Palmas Norte]

On 2/5/2022 at 8:56 AM, ShadyDan said:

My palmetto took -8.3C during the Christmas cold snap with no apparent damage. Just a run of the mill regular palmetto too. 

Interesting. I got a very root bound 5 gal. S palmetto (5' tall) when I was still in Lantzville. Planted it in a SW microclimate and it burnt bad the first winter out. Again in the second year. Slow to push new fronds from the stump, and a total nuke by the third year. Neighboring minors where totally unscathed.

[BeyondTheGarden]

@Las Palmas Norte do you have pics of said palmetto? 

[ShadyDan]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Interesting. I got a very root bound 5 gal. S palmetto (5' tall) when I was still in Lantzville. Planted it in a SW microclimate and it burnt bad the first winter out. Again in the second year. Slow to push new fronds from the stump, and a total nuke by the third year. Neighboring minors where totally unscathed.

Was it from Florida, maybe some “weaker” genetics in there? Mine was mostly covered by snow during the freeze, so that could have helped. But even the exposed parts of the Sabal did not get burned, so maybe mines from a hood provenance after all….

[Chester B]

I have two seedlings in the ground. They went through winter and were unprotected. No issues other than the one being tagged by one of the rabbits. 

[Las Palmas Norte]

3 hours ago, ShadyDan said:

Was it from Florida, maybe some “weaker” genetics in there? ...

Indeed it was.  I'll have to locate some seed from a better provenance. 

[Las Palmas Norte]

4 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

@Las Palmas Norte do you have pics of said palmetto? 

Yup. These from 2014. I did use some burlap in the growth point for insulation during cold snaps. Removed immediately afterward.

 

 

[Chester B]

@Las Palmas Norte that’s a bummer. It was decent size too. 

[NOT A TA]

Having dealt with them for years I'm posting to warn folks NOT to clean Sabal palmetto seeds and then store them.  Rather, store them with the exopcarp and mesocarp left intact. There is an insect called the Palm Seed Weevil whose larvae chews through the hard endocarp and feeds on the seed. They only do it to seeds when the exocarp has been compromised. The insect lives in the Southeast USA and I'm not certain how far North they survive. So germinate seeds that have had the exocarp removed right away, do not store them.

[ShadyDan]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Indeed it was.  I'll have to locate some seed from a better provenance. 

Bummer. I have some seeds from Texas I’m hoping will have good germination. They survived that nonsense last winter in Texas, so hoping they will be a pretty hardy strain.  
 

Here’s my palmetto soaking up the nice warm sun we had today. 

[Joe NC]

On 2/4/2022 at 12:13 PM, Joe NC said:

If any of you are interested send me a PM!

I got nearly all of the seeds I collected out in the mail today.

I have a enough left for 3 or 4 more people.  I'll update the post when they are all gone.

[Joe NC]

20 hours ago, NOT A TA said:

Having dealt with them for years I'm posting to warn folks NOT to clean Sabal palmetto seeds and then store them.  Rather, store them with the exopcarp and mesocarp left intact. There is an insect called the Palm Seed Weevil whose larvae chews through the hard endocarp and feeds on the seed. They only do it to seeds when the exocarp has been compromised. The insect lives in the Southeast USA and I'm not certain how far North they survive. So germinate seeds that have had the exocarp removed right away, do not store them.

I actually found many seeds that already had weevil larvae in them, just munching away.  So I ended up cleaning all of the seeds so I could identify what seeds had weevils, and so I would not send any though the mail....

[Meangreen94z]

Sabal Palmetto should be trunk hardy to 0°? I guess it depends on luck and locality but they survived in the Dallas area and Central Texas last February.

[NOT A TA]

17 hours ago, Joe NC said:

I actually found many seeds that already had weevil larvae in them, just munching away.  So I ended up cleaning all of the seeds so I could identify what seeds had weevils, and so I would not send any though the mail....

You may still have eggs on seeds and end up with weevils in the seeds you shipped. And if you still have seed you cleaned you'll likely have weevils if you try to store them.

[NBTX11]

Palmetto experienced 9or 10 degrees here in South Cental Texas in one of our worst freezes ever in terms of length and low temperatures. 
 

Result. NO damage to established Sabal Palmettos. Sabal Mexicana had about 50 percent frond burn. 

[floridaPalmMan]

On 2/5/2022 at 12:21 PM, Jesse PNW said:

Hope I'm not hijacking but what's the preferred method/growing medium for germinating palmetto seeds?  I collected a few dozen in central Florida I still need to germinate. 

Honestly I couldn't stop these from germinating as long as there was some moisture.

I used the moist vermiculite baggie method on top of my water heater, almost all germinated. 

Put some in moist soil in a shared pot at room temperature, almost all germinated. 

I dropped some seeds on accident on the ground of my greenhouse and now have 8 or 9 sabal seedlings sprouting up from the ground.

[teddytn]

@Joe NC you’re a good dude I really appreciate the seeds!!!!

[Sabal King]

On 2/8/2022 at 8:52 AM, NOT A TA said:

You may still have eggs on seeds and end up with weevils in the seeds you shipped. And if you still have seed you cleaned you'll likely have weevils if you try to store them.

What did you clean them with?  I just soaked them in 100% peroxide mixture after I got your package and left it on my shelf.. I picked it up today randomly, and boom four large weevils just inside of the bag moving around.  Thanks for the seeds..

Will peroxide also kill these weevils, not just bacteria?

[NOT A TA]

4 hours ago, tlow said:

What did you clean them with? 

@Joe NC will need to answer that. Often "cleaning" seed refers to the mechanical removal of the exocarp and mesocarp rather than cleaning with some type of chemical.

@tlow  It is not surprising to me that you got weevils, and is why I started posting warnings in this thread.  Although it's kinda creepy and annoying to get bugs in your seeds it won't affect germination of unaffected seeds. The bad thing is that people may be spreading the insect to areas where they don't currently live but could survive and reproduce. They reproduce fairly rapidly so although you probably killed the adults you found, you've probably got new eggs placed on more seeds in the bag which will munch those seeds and continue the cycle if you just leave the seeds in the bag or container. I did try an experiment placing compromised seeds in the refrigerator and that doesn't kill them, so don't waste time trying that. Best thing to do is start germinating them..

I store the types of seeds the weevil likes with the exocarp and mesocarp intact to prevent the females from laying eggs on them and then mechanically clean them of the exocarp and mesocarp right before shipping each order and give them a short soaking in a mild insecticide. When I ship I include a note stapled to the seed bag notifying the buyer that the seeds have insecticide on them and not to handle them.

[Joe NC]

4 hours ago, tlow said:

What did you clean them with?  I just soaked them in 100% peroxide mixture after I got your package and left it on my shelf.. I picked it up today randomly, and boom four large weevils just inside of the bag moving around.  Thanks for the seeds..

Will peroxide also kill these weevils, not just bacteria?

I just "cleaned them" by mechanically removing the thin exocarp and mesocarp, rinsing away the debris with water, then letting the seeds dry on a plate....  My thought process was that I didn't want the seeds to get moldy in the bags with any moisture in the "fruit".  Also, there were some seeds which were obviously hollow with weevil larvae in them so they were removed.

I collected directly from the stalk, shaking the seeds into a bag.  The weevils apparently like to lay eggs only on exposed seeds where the mesocarp has already been removed.  

Possibly birds or rodents nibbling on the "fruit" and exposing the seeds while they are on the palm?  

[Joe NC]

On 2/4/2022 at 12:13 PM, Joe NC said:

 If any of you are interested send me a PM!

Seed is all gone.

[steve617]

Very good germination results.

[Sabal King]

9 hours ago, steve617 said:

Very good germination results.

Awesome!  Mine have NOT germinated yet, and have been baking for three weeks or so now... hoping we get some movement soon.

[steve617]

9 hours ago, tlow said:

Awesome!  Mine have NOT germinated yet, and have been baking for three weeks or so now... hoping we get some movement soon.

I got mine on Feb 10 soaked em in water over night and put in baggie on Feb 11. That's probably the fastest I had any sabals to sprout.

[ZPalms]

On 2/6/2022 at 7:31 PM, NOT A TA said:

Having dealt with them for years I'm posting to warn folks NOT to clean Sabal palmetto seeds and then store them.  Rather, store them with the exopcarp and mesocarp left intact. There is an insect called the Palm Seed Weevil whose larvae chews through the hard endocarp and feeds on the seed. They only do it to seeds when the exocarp has been compromised. The insect lives in the Southeast USA and I'm not certain how far North they survive. So germinate seeds that have had the exocarp removed right away, do not store them.

Omg- this is what was in my seed container for my washie seeds, They are so ANNOYING!!!!!!!! I had no idea what they were  I hate them

[WSimpson]

Great pictures of those Palmettos in their native habitat .I have a Tifton Hardy found in Georgia after record cold ,  but I would like  to get a BHI someday too

Will . 

[Sabal King]

Well great news.. I came back from being gone for a bit and checked the bottom of the container these are germinating in and saw roots... I was patiently waiting for shoots, and bam, today I opened up the container to see one visibly above, and a few more coming right behind it.  Awesome.  Soaked for 24 hours, and put into a tupperware to germinate February 18th.  Can't wait to get these potted up in a little while when they are ready.   Fully expecting the rest of the tupperware to be packed with beans.  Thank you for the beans Joe.. appreciate your generosity!

 

[Nomad NYC]

Like the others, I  also was able to receive some Bald Head Island Palmetto seeds from Joe NC !

I soaked them for about about a day,  sown them on March 5th in a baggie containing a mix of peat and vermiculite on a temperature regulated seed germinating mat.

The seeds started germinating March 24th ( below is the picture of the first seed that sprouted ).

A second seedling sprouted soon afterwards - for me,  these were the fastest germinating Sabal Palmettos that I've ever grown  ( most likely because these seeds were very fresh ).

So I too have to thank @Joe NC for his charitableness for providing to us this rare opportunity to receive these unique and hard obtain Bald Head Island Palmetto seeds!

[Joe NC]

I'm glad everyone is having good germination.

After some of the earlier posts, I was a little worried about the seed weevils...