Thrinax morrisii (Key Thatch palm) hardiness????

[Jeff Wilson]

Hi,

 Just picked up a Thrinax morrisii. Was in Labelle so I assume it's seen some cold in the past few years. It is a good sized rootbound 20 gallon palm - 6 feet+ (2m) tall. Got it for a steal at $29 at Ace Hardware in Labelle, FL; thanks to TJ Thomas from the Palm Shop. Anyways, how hardy is this palm? How much cold? How much frost can it take? Need to plant it soon. Hope it's more hardy than T. radiata, which turns out is a WIMP. Thanks in advance.

Jeff

[SunnyFl]

My guess is you won't have any trouble growing it in Port Charlotte.

When we visited GTC nursery last winter, it was bitterly cold up there (Brevard).  Nasty, biting cold, much worse than here.  They had morrissiis out in pots, had obviously been out all night.

Leu Gardens has had one - for years, I think - and it seems fine.  Selby has another, and it's a beauty.

I guess you've already checked CFPACS cold observations - Eric Schmidt and Dave Witt both say it can take moderate frost.  There were other encouraging comments on the Cold Rating Data Base if memory serves, but I just checked and the site is down.

I have been told that it is definitely hardier than the radiata.  Congrats on your morrissii - very nice!

[merrill]

Hi, Jeff:

For years I tried to grow or buy a large [size of yours or more] T. morrisii in order to get a flying start for planting in Gainesville.  The difference between upper and lower surfaces is striking.  One time there was 20' one in a trash pile at Big Pine Key that looked like it might survive, but I wasn't resourceful enough with my tiny Toyota truck to take advantage.  It should do fine, but I'd protect it from 50-yr freezes.  Good Luck!

[Jeff Wilson]

Hi Sunny,

  I need to go and read through the CFPACS observations on the Key Thatch palm. Eric Schmidt and Dave Witt should have some interesting observations on the palm.

Merrill,

  Your tenacity to obtain a palm endemic to the Florida Keys and planting it in Gainesville is admirable. Definitely need all the edge you can get in Gatorville.

Jeff

[SubTropicRay]

Jeff,

Mine has seen 28F without damage!  It's relative, T. radiata, occurs naturally farther up the peninsula but is less hardy (go figure).   In you location, I would definitely give it a shot.

Ray

[Walter John]

That seems a great price, what would it normally be worth ?

[Jeff Wilson]

Ray,

   It's going in the ground. I just need to find the right spot for it. I don't really know where to put it as I'm already overplanted.

Wal,

  They usually go for $30 US Dollars or more for a 3 gallon. No one at the nursery at Ace knew what it was, and TJ asked me to ID the palm for them. I knew it was a Key Thatch palm by the silvery undersides of the fronds. I guess the palm had been sitting there for 2 years or more. TJ used his Ace discount as he works at the nursery to get the palm for me. It was labeled $49. I got it for $29 total including Florida sale's tax.

Jeff

[SunnyFl]

(merrill @ Jun. 23 2006,16:56)

QUOTE

Hi, Jeff:

For years I tried to grow or buy a large [size of yours or more] T. morrisii in order to get a flying start for planting in Gainesville.  The difference between upper and lower surfaces is striking.

Jeff wrote:

  Quote

I knew it was a Key Thatch palm by the silvery undersides of the fronds.

That's what I love about the morrissii, that green/silver contrast.  And when the wind blows, it's quite stunning. Fairchild has a very large one, it's gorgeous.  

This is another palm that belongs in every nursery up here.  Can't understand why we never see it.

Btw, I do recall another observation (maybe from CRDB?) that it once took 22F and survived.

[Walter John]

Here's a bargain I purchased at a recent palm sale, a Veitchia joannis for $28 ($20 US). She's a whopping 2.5 metres tall (inside the bag)  to the tip of the highest leaflet.

[Jeff Wilson]

That's a good deal, Wal.   I only have Veitchia arecina - double and Veitchia winin - double here.

Here are Dave Witt's observations and comments on Thrinax morrisii in Orlando, Florida. Met Dave at the last CFPACS event in St. Pete. Very nice guy. This is well written.....so thought I'd share with all of you.

Jeff

"Even though found only in the Keys while T.radiata is found farther north on mainland Fla., morrisii is oddly enough the most cold hardy of all Thrinax palms in cultivation. I have two palms in different areas of the garden, neither palm shows any damage until lows reach 25-26F, and they have handled moderate amounts of frost (under 6 hours) with no problem. I wouldn’t classify them as slow growers (once in the ground) although they will set no speed records for height gained either. Mine grow at maybe 1 foot per year overall. Once established they produce approximately 9 fronds per year, each one very silver abaxially and a light lime green on top. Newly emerging spears are slightly coated with a scurfy white fuzz. Four to six inflorescence emerge at one time over a period of several weeks but not many have set seed, sometimes none. Seeds germinate in about 3 months for me, at a rate of 50% or so. The new seedlings resemble blades of grass for the first two years and are easily susceptible to fungus problems. The leaves widen out somewhat and begin to show signs of splitting in the 3rd or 4th year. I don’t see much silver coloring on them until after 5 or 6 fan leafs form, until then they could just as easily be radiata or any other Thrinax. Both of my palms were planted from 7-gal. sizes, about 5 or 6 years ago. At the time they had a full crown of about 5 or 6 fan leaves but not much silver to the backs. I would guestimate they were at least 5 years old, maybe as much as 7. They prefer a well drained mostly full sun location even when very small but I have observed plenty of happy specimens growing in 50/50 shade & sun too. Mine began to flower and form small but attractive white fruits about 5 years after planting. They are an extremely drought tolerant palm once established but respond well to extra irrigation & fertilizer unlike their Caribbean counterparts Coccothrinax. These are unarmed, medium sized fan palms (about a 10 ft. spread, shorter if kept trimmed upright) and thus can be utilized in a wide variety of ways. Thanks to their habitat they are tolerant of salt spray and can be used along shorelines and dunes, planted in odd numbered groups for a very tropical effect. They also make a nice contrast with some of the larger growing pinnate palms when interspersed among them or can be used along walkways as an interesting accent."

[merrill]

(Jeff Wilson @ Jun. 23 2006,17:11)

QUOTE

Hi Sunny,

Merrill,

  Your tenacity to obtain a palm endemic to the Florida Keys and planting it in Gainesville is admirable. Definitely need all the edge you can get in Gatorville.

Jeff

Hi, Jeff

When I was showing that tenacity, morrisii was a rather obscure palm, but we knew it had more cold hardiness than its' habitat suggested.  I still think a well established morrisi can withstand something in the very high teens.

The main reason it isn't seen much is that it usually grows extremely slowly.

All this caused me to look it up in the Plant Finder.  It's price has dropped over the years in real dollars.  I may buy a large one yet. - merrill

[Jeff Wilson]

Hi, Merill:

I agree that this palm can probably withstand temps in the upper teens if it has some size and trunk to it. It is probably much more hardy as you wrote than its endemic range would indicate - which is somewhere in the Florida Keys - a hot semitropical zone 11. Some would argue that the Keys are fully tropical. I disagree. Tropical climates rarely see temps below 60F. Anyways, the old ogre that oversees my work here has indicated under no uncertain terms that my latest acquisition, Thrinax morrisii is an ugly palm. My response: how dare you?!?! It's beautful!!!    

Jeff

[Kathryn]

I hope they can take 22F. That's what I heard so I planted two very small ones in the ground last year. I will protect them until they get a good trunk. I'll have to look for a larger one next time I'm in Florida.

Kathryn

[Stan]

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums....MG]

Here is some type of Thrinax. At UC Berkeley.

[SubTropicRay]

Hi Kate,

They will sustain quite a bit of damage at 22F.  As you mentioned, they will harden off to some cold with size.

Ray

[SunnyFl]

(Jeff Wilson @ Jun. 24 2006,12:52)

QUOTE

Anyways, the old ogre that oversees my work here has indicated under no uncertain terms that my latest acquisition, Thrinax morrisii is an ugly palm. My response: how dare you?!?! It's beautful!!!    

Jeff

Ugly?  

Definitely needs new glasses!!    Morrissii is a beautiful palm, have you shown this misguided soul a pic of a full grown one?

Kathryn, I have read a couple of accounts of morrissii taking 22, but sustaining some damage.  It will need protection - but it's worth it

[Jeff Wilson]

Sunny,

 I'll give it a shot with showing him a Thrinax morrisii that's mature. Wish me luck. He wants me to plant this palm where no one will see it, and I refuse!!!!!

Jeff

[gsn]

So did we ever determine what the cold hardiness of Thrinax morrisii (Key Thatch palm) was???

Beautiful Florida native palm.

Sorry I don't have any for SALE!

Edited October 27, 2008 by gsn

[gsn]

  gsn said:

So did we ever determine what the cold hardiness of Thrinax morrisii (Key Thatch palm) was???

Beautiful Florida native palm.

Sorry I don't have any for SALE!

No one???

Thought I would move this back up since it is getting pushed down by all the NOSTALGIA and MEMORY LANE threads.

Sorry still don't have anything to PROMOTE!

[Ken Johnson]

BTW It has changed it's name. Leucothrinax now. i think that is how you spell it.

[gsn]

  Ken Johnson said:

BTW It has changed it's name. Leucothrinax now. i think that is how you spell it.

I guess this thread was OLD, they changed the name!

Even better though that name is way sexier, with a name like that it might get some dypsis attention!!!!

[glbower]

Hey, Jeff. I can't speak to the morrissii's ability to tolerate 20s temps and I hope I never have to. MIne is about 6 feet tall and received no damage on our cold night last winter. It was 33 degrees here, probably a degree or two warmer than your house on the other side of the river. I have a radiata that I believe received some vascular damage in the trunk that night, so there's no doubt as to which is hardier. After reading this thread, I know Im not going to worry about my morrissii any more on cold nights.

[SunnyFl]

  gsn said:

No one???

Thought I would move this back up since it is getting pushed down by all the NOSTALGIA and MEMORY LANE threads.

Sorry still don't have anything to PROMOTE!

Nice to see this has been bumped back up - the palm is a beauty. Okay, this seems hard to believe, but there was an article in Palmateer mag (CFPACS), indicating morrissii might be resistant to ganoderma. Now that would be amazing, if it's true.

[SubTropicRay]

It wouldn't surpise me Sunny. All Florida native plants must have resiliency to handle our constantly changing weather.

[Tampa Scott]

Here is a picture of my Key Thatch it has seen down to 27F with no damage.

[Alicehunter2000]

A recent posting caused an old thread to be dragged up..........any new observations on cold hardiness of this one?

[DoomsDave]

  On 6/24/2006 at 9:51 AM, Jeff Wilson said:

Ray,

It's going in the ground. I just need to find the right spot for it. I don't really know where to put it as I'm already overplanted.

Wal,

They usually go for $30 US Dollars or more for a 3 gallon. No one at the nursery at Ace knew what it was, and TJ asked me to ID the palm for them. I knew it was a Key Thatch palm by the silvery undersides of the fronds. I guess the palm had been sitting there for 2 years or more. TJ used his Ace discount as he works at the nursery to get the palm for me. It was labeled $49. I got it for $29 total including Florida sale's tax.

Jeff

29 dollars for a 20 gallon palm?

Fantastic deal! A coup, even.

Let us know how it grows.

[Jimbean]

  On 12/24/2014 at 9:31 PM, Alicehunter2000 said:

A recent posting caused an old thread to be dragged up..........any new observations on cold hardiness of this one?

Mine survived North Brevard in 2010 with 22F. No damage.

[Alicehunter2000]

Brevard is like the tropics for me. Sure wish I would've been into palms when I went to school there.

[Jimbean]

I'm actually going to check out that palm today

[NorthFlpalmguy]

I'd be interested in zone pushing for this one as well. I've seen some beauties advertised in plant finder.

[Sabal Steve]

I'd love some seeds from one that's been positively identified. Maybe a grove in the future....

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

I have this species at my home in Jacksonville. It does get damaged periodically, but has even flowered and set seed. They see temps in the mid 20's every year and aren't in a frosty locale. Long duration freezes really damage the foliage. I think I protected them during the harshest winter temps I. '09-'10 and 10-11. They haven't been protected since and I don't see them very often now that the house is rented and they are 180 miles away.

[Jimbean]

I'm thinking it is a 9b palm, like Livistona chinensis.

[Kailua_Krish]

Livistona chiniensis is not a 9b Palm. It's a frost sensitive Palm but under canopy is pretty hardy. I believe they survived the '89 freezes in North Florida. I've never had any freeze damage in my location which is a borderline 8b/9a location because they are planted under canopy. I believe plants in Gainesville survived lows of at least 14 degrees in the 80s.

Edited December 27, 2014 by krishnaraoji88

[Alicehunter2000]

Chinese are pretty darn hardy......surviving upper teens for sure around these parts.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Jim, I agree that the palms don't look very good after lows below 25, but in my experience, the L chinensis may defoliate but they recover from temps the teens. I find many Livistona’s are similar, such as L drudei, a Palm native to tropical Australia. I'm sure L chinensis will easily survive lows that kill Leucothrinax morrisii. But as far as cosmetic frost injury in the mid 20's, you are probably right, they are similar.

[Cikas]

Any updates on hardiness?

Edited January 25, 2018 by Cikas

[Phoenikakias]

  On 1/25/2018 at 6:50 PM, Cikas said:

Any updates on hardiness?

Expand  

In the Thrinax genus, the most cold hardiest one. In my garden it sails through a normal winter without any foliar damage.

[Sandy Loam]

Me too.